Lack of RB Production is limiting this Team

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

Yo @jeremy2020!  Was I talking about runs over 20 yards in my initial post?  I am not ignoring it and I appreciate the fact you contributed that to the discussion.  Perhaps you could address and not ignore my overall point about the lack of rushing TDs by the RBs  (TDs = 6pts).   Let me see if I can explain it a different way to you.  The Bills scored 314 pts last year as team.  The RBs produced 4 TDs last year equating to 24 pts of that 314.  Would be nice to see that improved don't you agree, or are you satisfied with the status quo?

Wrong.  We didn’t have 4 rushing TDs.  We had 22 rushing TDs, you just chose to remove Allen’s 18 rushing TDs because it doesn’t fit your narrative.  It was already pointed out to you that Devin in limited snaps last year was among the league leaders in runs over 20 yards.  You also see the league leader only had 5 more runs than Devin over 20 yards and that it’s NOT a very common play and doesn’t even happen on average of even once a game by the league leader.  
 

You keep ignoring Allen’s rushing TDs to say the RBs dont score enough...how are they supposed to score the TD if Allen already ran it in?  
 

All that matters is that the 6 points get on the board, doesn’t matter if the jersey number is from a RB, QB, TE, or WR.  The fact is the issue is not our RBs, it’s been Allen vulturing the TDs from the RBs because teams have had no answer to stop Allen when he’s running for the score.  

[billrooter]

3 hours ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

Can you think of any runs where our RBs are breaking away runs to even score?  I can't think of any.

After one game you mean? Singletary average 5.1 a carry last year, surely he broke away a time or two?

[Malazan]

1 hour ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

Yo @jeremy2020!  Was I talking about runs over 20 yards in my initial post?  I am not ignoring it and I appreciate the fact you contributed that to the discussion.  Perhaps you could address and not ignore my overall point about the lack of rushing TDs by the RBs  (TDs = 6pts).   Let me see if I can explain it a different way to you.  The Bills scored 314 pts last year as team.  The RBs produced 4 TDs last year equating to 24 pts of that 314.  Would be nice to see that improved don't you agree, or are you satisfied with the status quo?

 

The Ravens had 531 points with 21 rushing TDs (16 from running backs) 18.08%

The Bills had 314 points with 16 rushing TDs (7 from running backs) 13.38%

 

So ignoring your attempt at a loaded question, I would like the Bills to have about 200 more points and 5 more rushing TDs...I don't care if the rushing TDs come from Allen or from the backs. 

 

More so, the Ravens had 37 passing TDs to the Bills 21 TDs. I'm much more concerned about the Bills increasing that number. If only, the Bills had done something to address that actual problem.

Edited September 15, 2020 by jeremy2020

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

7 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said:

 

The Ravens had 531 points with 21 rushing TDs (16 from running backs) 18.08%

The Bills had 314 points with 16 rushing TDs (7 from running backs) 13.38%

 

So ignoring your attempt at a loaded question, I would like the Bills to have about 200 more points and 5 more rushing TDs...I don't care if the rushing TDs come from Allen or from the backs. 

 

More so, the Ravens had 37 passing TDs to the Bills 21 TDs. I'm much more concerned about the Bills increasing that number. If only, the Bills had done something to address that actual problem.

 

Your stat is not correct; the Bills only had 4 rushing TDs out of 13 last year from RBs (2 from Gore and 2 from Singletary); Allen had the other 9.    In 2018 they had the same (3 from McCoy and 1 from Ivory) out of 15; Allen had 8, Mckenizie 2, and Peterman 1.  I agree with about increasing the passing TD #s, but ignoring the lack of ability for the RBs to get into the endzone and just relying all on the QB doesn't help.  Many of those failures to get turned into FGs instead of TDs.  

[John from Riverside]

38 minutes ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

Your stat is not correct; the Bills only had 4 rushing TDs out of 13 last year from RBs (2 from Gore and 2 from Singletary); Allen had the other 9.    In 2018 they had the same (3 from McCoy and 1 from Ivory) out of 15; Allen had 8, Mckenizie 2, and Peterman 1.  I agree with about increasing the passing TD #s, but ignoring the lack of ability for the RBs to get into the endzone and just relying all on the QB doesn't help.  Many of those failures to get turned into FGs instead of TDs.  

Am I supposed to feel bad that Allen is good at scoring touchdowns?  I just want to make sure outrage is what I should be feeling.

[LABILLBACKER]

6 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

Daboll seems to tailor the game plan toward the opponent. This past week, it would not have been wise to try to run the ball vs a team where that was their only strength - when there were other areas to exploit, which they did. 

I agree. As Belichick would do attack your opponents weakness. We weren't running wild on the stout run D of the Jets. We attacked exactly where we had to. We should've scored anywhere from 33-40 points. Devin & Zack will get things going against the Dorados. The OL also has to step it up. 

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

Am I supposed to feel bad that Allen is good at scoring touchdowns?  I just want to make sure outrage is what I should be feeling.

 

Nope not at all.  The question is, are you satisfied with TD production by the RBs over the past few years heading into this year (1 rushing TD per every 4 games by the RBs).  If not, okay then.  Point of my thread and my opinion is, as much as we should feel good about Allen and his rushing TDs, the majority of them are from broken plays and not by design.  I believe this to be an area where we need to improve, as simple as that.  If you disagree and are content with the current production, that's cool and your opinion.  Just trying to have a conversation here.

[DuckyBoys]

Agree with original poster  .  OL is not good at moving teams off the ball.  Be nice if we can count on rbs to get those 3rd and short downs and to run somewhat effectively in the red zone.  At some point in time were going to need some production from somewhere other than QB.  Or we can continue to depend on Allen to be the entire offense and risk hs long term health everytime we need 1 yard

[Straight Hucklebuck]

It’s 2020, the Bills are doing exactly what they need to. Investing in cheap, cost controlled mid-rounders and starting to utilize the screen pass more. 

 

The last thing we need to do is devote more time and energy to “establish the run”.

 

Look at Seattle when they finally took the chains off Russell Wilson. 

 

[John from Riverside]

21 minutes ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

Nope not at all.  The question is, are you satisfied with TD production by the RBs over the past few years heading into this year (1 rushing TD per every 4 games by the RBs).  If not, okay then.  Point of my thread and my opinion is, as much as we should feel good about Allen and his rushing TDs, the majority of them are from broken plays and not by design.  I believe this to be an area where we need to improve, as simple as that.  If you disagree and are content with the current production, that's cool and your opinion.  Just trying to have a conversation here.

I would say it was game one.....and as long as our drives are ending in touchdowns who cares?

 

(by the way.....it could have been much worse for the jets......Allen fumbled TWICE on drives where we were driving right down the field)

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

Just now, John from Riverside said:

I would say it was game one.....and as long as our drives are ending in touchdowns who cares?

 

(by the way.....it could have been much worse for the jets......Allen fumbled TWICE on drives where we were driving right down the field)

Again, this has nothing to do with Sunday.  But many of the drives are not ending in TDs, but in FG attempts and I believe the lack of RB contribution contributes to this.  We can disagree, no problem.

[Jauronimo]

Holy specious reasoning, @Lieutenant Aldo Raine!

 

Lets compare the #1 scoring offense last year to the Bills who were bottom feeders as evidence that we need better running backs.   More trips to the red zone = more touchdowns.  The Ravens had the most red zone possessions per game in 2019.  Is anyone surprised that they punched in a bunch of rushing TDs?  Its almost like...wait for it....the two are related!

 

I've already demonstrated multiple times in this thread that the Bills running game was more than adequate.  Even a cursory glance at the stats will show you our passing game sucked.  

 

You really want more rushing TDs???   Develop a real passing attack and move the ball between the 20s.  

[I'm Spartacus]

5 hours ago, Atticus said:

Agree.  Seems like the RPO is overused, Josh is not great at making the right decisions, and lastly it's also likely to get 17 hurt eventually.  Play calling is an issue, but the fundamental problem is not the RBs, it's the OL.  Sadly our OL is mediocre in run blocking - not awful but clearly not great.  The Jets proved that when we go up against a top run defense, we cannot impose our will on them.  This may be a big problem when the weather turns bad.

Atticus! Your first post! Welcome to the board...

[BillsCelticsAngelsBama]

7 hours ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

It has now been 37 games since the start of the 2018 season, and we have a grand total of 8 rushing TDs by our RBs (4 in 2018, 4 in 2019, and 0 so far in 2020).  That is slightly less than 1 for every 4 games (1:4) and to me that is unsatisfactory, even if the QB averages 1 every two games (1:2).   Hopefully Moss can help with that, but the lack of RB production is really holding this team back to a certain degree in my opinion.  Additionally, TDs withstanding, do opposing defenses really fear our running game?  This kind of goes back to some poster's thoughts on constantly running RPOs instead of some more designed leads, counters, etc.  I think Dabol really needs to figure this out.  Thoughts?

Rewatched the game. Other than the obvious (we have two of the slowest RB's in the league) it didn't look like the line gave them any place to go. Even in Allen's runs, he would have gone down a couple of times if he wasn't as strong as a horse. Give these two a little space and their above average elusiveness will be more than adequate, despite the lack of breakaway speed. Is it the play calling or bad line play ----. or did the Jets just do an exceptional job in the middle of the line  We're about to find out. Go Bills !!

[Big C]

I don't know about you guys but I'd rather have a pro bowl RB than make the playoffs. 

[JohnNord]

I wrote a post about this - I think a big problem is the OL.  They seem to be much better at pass protection than run blocking,  they just don’t seem to move the defensive front.  
 

As much as we loved to hate on Gore, who was obviously slow, he was getting pounded before he crossed the LOS.  
 

The majority of the big running plays for Buffalo came off tackle.  Players like Mitch Morse and Quinton Spain aren’t great run blockers.  Probably the same with Feliciano.  It will be interesting to see if Ford, who is a good run blocker, will make any difference.

 

I don’t think the problem is the RB’s maybe they don’t have the speed to break off long runs.  But the rushing numbers should be better with backs like Devin and Moss.

[C.Biscuit97]

I will say they definitely don’t have breakaway speed at RB.  Also, a mobile qb should be helping open things up for the run game.  
 

I think it is a solid, if unspectacular, duo.  But they badly need a homerun threat.

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

43 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

Holy specious reasoning, @Lieutenant Aldo Raine!

 

Lets compare the #1 scoring offense last year to the Bills who were bottom feeders as evidence that we need better running backs.   More trips to the red zone = more touchdowns.  The Ravens had the most red zone possessions per game in 2019.  Is anyone surprised that they punched in a bunch of rushing TDs?  Its almost like...wait for it....the two are related!

 

I've already demonstrated multiple times in this thread that the Bills running game was more than adequate.  Even a cursory glance at the stats will show you our passing game sucked.  

 

You really want more rushing TDs???   Develop a real passing attack and move the ball between the 20s.  

 

Perhaps if the RBs could produce more in the redzone, we might average more than 19 pts per game.  If you think averaging 1 rushing TD per every four games by our RBs is adequate and cannot be improved upon; that's your opinion and I disagree with it.  It's okay; I can handle you disagreeing with me.  

[C.Biscuit97]

3 minutes ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

Perhaps if the RBs could produce more in the redzone, we might average more than 19 pts per game.  If you think averaging 1 rushing TD per every four games by our RBs is adequate and cannot be improved upon; that's your opinion and I disagree with it.  It's okay; I can handle you disagreeing with me.  

Allen is our goal line back.  It’s like Cam. 

[Royale with Cheese]

7 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Nope.

 

A back who could potentially take it to the house on every touch would be a perfect compliment to Singletary.

 

Okay Scott why did we draft Moss then?  It sounds like you believe you know who fits our RPO system over McBeane and Daboll.  Not only did they draft a RB they doesn't fit our RPO system, but passed on a guy who would be a perfect compliment.  Why didn't they want a perfect compliment for Singletary and draft a guy who doesn't fit our style?  Riddle me this.