Lack of RB Production is limiting this Team

[PaattMaann]

oh dang, this was a serious post/thread? lol 

[CEN-CAL17]

Just now, PaattMaann said:

oh dang, this was a serious post/thread? lol 

Why is that funny?

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

1 minute ago, PaattMaann said:

oh dang, this was a serious post/thread? lol 

 

Sure is; do you care to provide a rationale opinion?  Just a conversation, no need to be snarky.

[PaattMaann]

Just now, CEN-CAL17 said:

Why is that funny?

 

because we are one game into the season????? lol 

 

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

Just now, PaattMaann said:

 

because we are one game into the season????? lol 

 

 

Did I ever mention one game?  I am talking a two-year trend.  

[PaattMaann]

Just now, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

Did I ever mention one game?  I am talking a two-year trend.  

 

We didnt have Moss last year. Frank Gore is now gone. We now got rid of our FB to likely open up the offense. Singletary is a year older. Our offensive line largely returns intact leading to more cohesion. 

 

What does previous years running (which by the way we were top 10 in rushing last year) success or lack thereof, have to do with this years rushing attack?

 

Its been a game, so no, to answer your I guess serious post, our RBs arent limiting this team. 

[DrDawkinstein]

5 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

How often does something like this happen?  Even the fastest RB's in the league might do it once a year?

What would you say is the minimum yardage that is considered "taking it to the house"?  I would say at least 50?

 

They won't smoke guys but as long as they don't just run in a straight line....they can do it.

 

I bet Singletary will have one run of over 50 yards to the house this year.  If he doesn't, I'll set you up with Matt Milano.

 

Glad I read the thread before typing this out myself.

 

The league isnt even seeing RBs breaking 30 yard TD runs on any sort of regular basis. It just doesnt happen. Let alone 40, 50+ yards.

 

What RBs in the NFL are a threat to "take it to the house at any moment"?

[Just Joshin']

22 minutes ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

If you read my initial post; I'm not taking about one game.  I'm talking over two years!  Like I said, the Ravens have 28 rushing TDs to our 8 TDs outside of Lamar and Josh.  I think two years is enough to establish a trend.  I'm just saying if we can improve this area, how much better could we be?  Is that a rationale question to ask or just an overreaction?  

The teams change too much year to year to make a valid comparison of 2018 Bills to 2020 Bills.  Within years yes, between years less so.

 

The 2018 Bills had neither back on the team, substandard receivers, a first year OC  and a rookie QB.  Fast forward to 2020 and the run game will look very different.  You can not do a statistically significant trend analysis with so many different variables.

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

2 minutes ago, PaattMaann said:

 

We didnt have Moss last year. Frank Gore is now gone. We now got rid of our FB to likely open up the offense. Singletary is a year older. Our offensive line largely returns intact leading to more cohesion. 

 

What does previous years running (which by the way we were top 10 in rushing last year) success or lack thereof, have to do with this years rushing attack?

 

Its been a game, so no, to answer your I guess serious post, our RBs arent limiting this team. 

 

Well, we are always talking about improving our 19pts per game right?  We draft and acquire players to improve that.  Therefore; it is rationale to look at areas where we can improve that, and I believer more production from our RBs could help.  If you disagree, so be it.  Thanks for the response.

[Jauronimo]

More color.  2019 Bills were bottom 10 in red zone trips per game.  

 

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/red-zone-scoring-attempts-per-game?date=2020-02-03

 

Buffalo was middle of the road in red zone TD efficiency in  2019

 

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/red-zone-scoring-pct?date=2020-02-03

 

2019 Bills were 3rd in rushing first downs per game.

 

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/rushing-first-downs-per-game?date=2020-02-03

 

2019 Bills were 8th in rushing yards per game.

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/team/_/season/2019/seasontype/2/table/rushing/sort/rushingYards/dir/desc

 

2019, Buffalo was 11th in rushing yards per attempt despite old man Gore

 

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/yards-per-rush-attempt?date=2020-02-03

 

 

In summary, Buffalo rushed the ball effectively, picked up first downs on the ground, and was efficient in yards per attempt but they scored few points and had few red zone trips relative to the rest of the league.  More red zone visits = more rushing TDs.  Why weren't the Bills getting to the red zone more and scoring more rushing TDs?  Because the passing game sucked.  End of discussion.  

 

RBs with breakaway speed are usually a luxury not a necessity.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

It has now been 37 games since the start of the 2018 season, and we have a grand total of 8 rushing TDs by our RBs (4 in 2018, 4 in 2019, and 0 so far in 2020).  That is slightly less than 1 for every 4 games (1:4) and to me that is unsatisfactory, even if the QB averages 1 every two games (1:2).   Hopefully Moss can help with that, but the lack of RB production is really holding this team back to a certain degree in my opinion.  Additionally, TDs withstanding, do opposing defenses really fear our running game?  This kind of goes back to some poster's thoughts on constantly running RPOs instead of some more designed leads, counters, etc.  I think Dabol really needs to figure this out.  Thoughts?

 

I think we need to look at 2019 and 2020 separately from 2018.  Basically our OL in 2018 sucked and was upgraded /changed OL coach in the 2019 offseason.  After the Packers game I think McDermott plaintively said “I expected us to be able to run the ball”

 

There’s a point to be made that if Allen keeps it and rushes for TD himself, is that “robbing” the RBs of yards they could have?

 

The running game vs the Jets was an abysmal fail, but it’s a valid point that the Jets had the #2 run D in the NFL last year, and it seems pretty clear to me that Williams defensive game plan was “Stifle the run and make Josh Allen be a QB to beat us”.  If another game or two shows that Josh’s answer to that is a resounding and consistent “as you wish!” expect the run game to loosen up.

 

21 minutes ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

That's a great point; without going back to look; I would venture at least half if not more.

 

During the Jests game, the announcer cited Daboll telling him only 25% of JA’s rushes last year were designed QB runs.  Pretty sure I caught that correctly.  Maybe someone else can verify that’s what they said.

[Jauronimo]

5 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Glad I read the thread before typing this out myself.

 

The league isnt even seeing RBs breaking 30 yard TD runs on any sort of regular basis. It just doesnt happen. Let alone 40, 50+ yards.

 

What RBs in the NFL are a threat to "take it to the house at any moment"?

A lot of the guys who fit that description were players who never found a regular role since they couldn't run between the tackles like Spiller and Reggie Bush.  That one year of Chris Johnson was exciting.  Peterson is the one of the very few in the current era I can think of that will run a safety over and then outrun a CB.  

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, Jauronimo said:

A lot of the guys who fit that description were players who never found a regular role since they couldn't run between the tackles like Spiller and Reggie Bush.  That one year of Chris Johnson was exciting.  Peterson is the one of the very few in the current era I can think of that will run a safety over and then outrun a CB.  

 

Yep, Spiller was who I was thinking of as well. And he is hardly the example I would use if trying to prove a point.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 minutes ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

Well, we are always talking about improving our 19pts per game right?  We draft and acquire players to improve that.  Therefore; it is rationale to look at areas where we can improve that, and I believer more production from our RBs could help.  If you disagree, so be it.  Thanks for the response.

 

I think the point is that RB production and an effective deep passing game/ability to beat pressure with the quick pass go together.  If our passing vocabulary is limited, teams can do what the Ravens did and basically keep up the heavy pressure on QB that also stifles the run, daring us to throw deep and beat them.  Blitz zero, here we come.

 

If we can routinely hit those deep passes and make them pay for blitz zero, they have to back off and that opens room for the run game as well.

[QLBillsFan]

How far were the 28 TD runs for the Ravens? A team know for strong O line play. A team that has blown opponents away with a balanced O. Who are their fast RB’s? 
 

With respect to hand off timing the Bills ran option so that’s how it works. Based on last years performance Singletary is a solid RB with an over 5 yard per carry average. 
 

Let’s discuss Bills woeful running game after 8 games. I’m guessing you won’t be talking about it. It’s an Allen led O ! Nobody in GB is worried about their RB play. The Bills will run when it’s the best option. Each game is its own entity. Let it play out. Just my thoughts. 

[Atticus]

Agree.  Seems like the RPO is overused, Josh is not great at making the right decisions, and lastly it's also likely to get 17 hurt eventually.  Play calling is an issue, but the fundamental problem is not the RBs, it's the OL.  Sadly our OL is mediocre in run blocking - not awful but clearly not great.  The Jets proved that when we go up against a top run defense, we cannot impose our will on them.  This may be a big problem when the weather turns bad.

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I think the point is that RB production and an effective deep passing game/ability to beat pressure with the quick pass go together.  If our passing vocabulary is limited, teams can do what the Ravens did and basically keep up the heavy pressure on QB that also stifles the run, daring us to throw deep and beat them.  Blitz zero, here we come.

 

If we can routinely hit those deep passes and make them pay for blitz zero, they have to back off and that opens room for the run game as well.

 

I don't disagree there at all.  Everyone is making rationale points.  I just look at the Ravens for example with a QB, who like Allen, gets his share of rushing TDs.  But the the RBs contribute more, 28 TDs in 2-years to our 8 TDs in years outside of the QBs.  I think it's a fair question regardless of how many spears are thrown.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 minutes ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

I don't disagree there at all.  Everyone is making rationale points.  I just look at the Ravens for example with a QB, who like Allen, gets his share of rushing TDs.  But the the RBs contribute more, 28 TDs in 2-years to our 8 TDs in years outside of the QBs.  I think it's a fair question regardless of how many spears are thrown.

 

No question I would like to see the RBs contribute more, not just to TDs but to the offense in general.

[CEN-CAL17]

26 minutes ago, PaattMaann said:

 

because we are one game into the season????? lol 

 

But he specifically mentions the past 2 seasons. Then after the game against the Jets our RBs had 41 yards total... He is simply stating things have to change.

 

I agree, yeah it’s only one game. But if this team doesn’t start improving our offense will be held back. Teams I’d bet focus solely on Josh and our passing game.

 

The only reason the Titans are good is because they can run the ball. 
 

I’ll give it time, but the run game looked bad on Sunday 

[ColoradoBills]

26 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

How often does something like this happen?  Even the fastest RB's in the league might do it once a year?

What would you say is the minimum yardage that is considered "taking it to the house"?  I would say at least 50?

 

They won't smoke guys but as long as they don't just run in a straight line....they can do it.

 

I bet Singletary will have one run of over 50 yards to the house this year.  If he doesn't, I'll set you up with Matt Milano.

 

A lot less than people think.  There was a same type thread started last year and I looked up the stats for long rushing TDs.

I used like 30yds, 50yds and 70yds (if i remember correctly).

 

Of course compared to TD passes of similar length it was extremely small.  Compared to all TDs scored it was a rounding error.

I'm not going to do it again because the posters on the "you have to have a speedy back to take it to the house threat every handoff"

didn't want to respond to the facts.

 

Speedy backs are an asset as much as speedy anything in football is an asset but the long breakaway TD run it rare indeed.

One funny thing I remember is that most of the few long run TDs were scored by elite 1st round RBs.

 

The only concern I would have is if the Bills running attack was inept causing a one dimensional offensive team.

When that happens changes would need to happen!