AmishRifle Posted September 16, 2020 Posted September 16, 2020 I think the one thing missing from this discussion is the impact our defensive gameplan had on Darnold. I felt like we were very aggressive and brought an extra defender or two on the pass rush more often than usual. The gameplan forced Darnold to move and throw incompletions or lower percentage passes. Our defensive gameplan forced Darnold to make the bad throws and improper mechanics because he felt the pressure. Our defense was the root cause of his issues on Sunday. 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 16, 2020 Posted September 16, 2020 On 9/15/2020 at 7:35 AM, Just Joshin' said: I think it says more about Darnold's ability and desire to change. Josh is driven, Darnold does not appear to be driven to be the best. It's possibly a valid point that Darnold may not be as driven. Darnold came into the league a bit annointed - records set as USC QB, big stage, Rose Bowl, Cotton Bowl, Archie Griffen award. He was widely expected to become a top NFL QB. There may be an element of expectations there. Allen came into the league widely laughed at. He clearly loves football, and he wants to be the best. All the "can't hit the broad side of a barn" memes are probably highly motivational. As far as Jordan Palmer though, I think overall what it says is that 1) change in physical patterns is hard to achieve at the top levels in sport. You can be perfect in practice, and revert under pressure 2) "it's hard to throw completions while you're running for your life" 2 hours ago, AmishRifle said: I think the one thing missing from this discussion is the impact our defensive gameplan had on Darnold. I felt like we were very aggressive and brought an extra defender or two on the pass rush more often than usual. The gameplan forced Darnold to move and throw incompletions or lower percentage passes. Our defensive gameplan forced Darnold to make the bad throws and improper mechanics because he felt the pressure. Our defense was the root cause of his issues on Sunday. All of this is true, but we don't excuse bad throws and improper mechanics when Josh Allen is subjected to relentless aggressive and shifting blitzes.
Malazan Posted September 16, 2020 Posted September 16, 2020 What does Mahomes performance say about Palmer?
AirAllenPower Posted September 16, 2020 Posted September 16, 2020 I continue to evolve on this issue. I'm starting to think more QBs are ruined than a great qb just being great... If Darnold goes to the packers and sits behind Rodgers for a couple years, I think his career us way different I firmly believe Joey Harrington and David Carr were destroyed by there organizations
buffaloboyinATL Posted September 16, 2020 Posted September 16, 2020 Nothing? If anything, it is more reflective of Darnold, not one of his coaches.
Protocal69 Posted September 16, 2020 Posted September 16, 2020 To me it always seem like Darnold cared more about being able to hit the trick shot as opposed to working on his fundamentals. I remember looking at one of the videos of Darnold working with Jordan Palmer and he throw an out pass while his footwork was not properly aligned. It looked pretty and accurate BUT it wasn't with a DE or LB chasing him down. Darnold is going to look a lot better playing against teams like his own defense with no pass rush. BTW The Jets play the 49ers. I don't see them scoring more than 10 pts. I actually being nice with the 10 pts. The calls for Darnold head are going to magnify after the game.
Mr. WEO Posted September 16, 2020 Posted September 16, 2020 Says Palmer is nothing special as a coach. Josh is just a better athlete than Darnold.
LABILLBACKER Posted September 16, 2020 Posted September 16, 2020 On 9/15/2020 at 6:06 AM, atlbillsfan1975 said: The Jets have Gase as the HC and Darnold is already on his third OC. Guy is getting different messages and playbooks every year. The Jets have given other teams the blueprint on how to give your new QB as little chance for success. This sums it up. Darnold has zero weapons. Followed by horrible coaching and a train wreck organization. If you had put Sam in places like KC, Baltimore or SF, he would be successful. Josh has had the advantage of having a great owner, HC and GM to support his slower development. I'm going to give Palmer less credit. I don't find him to be some qb whisperer as some do. 2
billsbackto81 Posted September 16, 2020 Posted September 16, 2020 I still think Darnold is and can be very good. The instability and bad decisions of the Jets organization has been his downfall to date.
LB48 Posted September 17, 2020 Posted September 17, 2020 On 9/15/2020 at 8:33 AM, Mr. WEO said: religiously working with Jordan Palmer? IMO Jordan Palmer is a joke QB GURU who is making big $$ with young QB's looking for CONFIDENCE!! 1
PromoTheRobot Posted September 17, 2020 Posted September 17, 2020 Player success depends as much on the situation they end up in as their talent level. If Rex was still the HC Allen would likely end up like the pundits predicted.
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted September 17, 2020 Posted September 17, 2020 37 minutes ago, LB48 said: IMO Jordan Palmer is a joke QB GURU who is making big $$ with young QB's looking for CONFIDENCE!! That could be. I do think and hope that after the season Allen is about to put up Palmer might be the one having to pay Allen just to show up and be a part of the work out with the future young QB's.
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted September 17, 2020 Posted September 17, 2020 Why are Allen and Jackson succeeding and getting better every year where as it looks like Mayfield and Darnold plateaued some point in their rookie season? To answer that question I think you have to ask another question. What do Jackson and Allen have in common as individuals? Mayfield and Darnold are both simply average. And average doesn't cut it.
Thurman#1 Posted September 17, 2020 Posted September 17, 2020 On 9/15/2020 at 9:21 PM, cage said: What does Darnold's performance say about Jordan Palmer? IMO, not much. Coaches have people who don't become great pros. Even the best coaches. I think it says that Palmer has a student who - very early in his third year, which is far too early to make a call - is so far still having problems on a team with poor personnel and a questionable coaching staff that was outmanned badly on the day against one of the league's best Ds.
cage Posted September 17, 2020 Author Posted September 17, 2020 Some great perspective on this topic. I got busy at work yesterday and got away from this thread, but read all the comments this morning, which I rarely do on something that has run on for multiple pages. I'll apologize up front as this link requires subscription to The Athletic (actually a great deal on subscribing going on right now) that compares Allen, Darnold and Mayfield on where they are in regard to membership to $40m/year club that Mahomes and Watson started. They already concede that Jackson will likely be the next member. And, of course, Rosen is an afterthought. Anyhow, I thought this piece advances the conversation further https://theathletic.com/2068320/2020/09/15/lombardi-can-josh-allen-sam-darnold-and-baker-mayfield-carry-their-franchises/
Dragoon Posted September 17, 2020 Posted September 17, 2020 I don’t think anybody should make any conclusions yet on Darnold, though it is obvious which way his career is trending.
cd1 Posted September 17, 2020 Posted September 17, 2020 Faulting Palmer is kind of like faulting a mechanic because he could not "tune" a Volkswagon into a Farari.
TigerJ Posted September 17, 2020 Posted September 17, 2020 Coaches can help a player develop, but at the end of the day, it's the drive in the player himself that plays the biggest role in where his career ends up. In the case of Darnold, I think Buffalo has his number. Sean McDermott's defense is in theory not all that complicated, maybe less complex than Gregg Williams' defense, but the bills defensive heads (McDermott and Frazier) are masters of deception and miss direction. The look they give pre snap is different from what the QB sees as the plays develop. Darnold is getting so confused he's "seeing ghosts." If he could run the play as he called it his mechanics would be fine, but when he gets confused his mechanics break down because he can't focus on the mechanics while he's trying to figure out what's going on on the field.
Saxum Posted September 17, 2020 Posted September 17, 2020 1 hour ago, TigerJ said: Coaches can help a player develop, but at the end of the day, it's the drive in the player himself that plays the biggest role in where his career ends up. In the case of Darnold, I think Buffalo has his number. Sean McDermott's defense is in theory not all that complicated, maybe less complex than Gregg Williams' defense, but the bills defensive heads (McDermott and Frazier) are masters of deception and miss direction. The look they give pre snap is different from what the QB sees as the plays develop. Darnold is getting so confused he's "seeing ghosts." If he could run the play as he called it his mechanics would be fine, but when he gets confused his mechanics break down because he can't focus on the mechanics while he's trying to figure out what's going on on the field. Myth Directions is my favorite concept and this is my favorite book series. I see Sean McDermott being Skeeve and Leslie Frazier being Aahz. Beane can barely be seen on the left. By Source, Fair use, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?curid=61155749
H2o Posted September 17, 2020 Posted September 17, 2020 I will say this, if Darnold doesn't have Crowder this weekend with Bell already out then he and Gore may both not even finish the game against San Fran. Apparently Mekhi Becton is also nursing a knee injury, his LT. The Jets season is spiraling downward in a quick fashion again this year. Can't blame Palmer for what's coming on Sunday.
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