What does Darnold's performance say about Jordan Palmer?

[BillsfaninSB]

Darnold has to get better.   Would prefer to not have Trevor Lawerence in the division. 

[Captain Hindsight]

5 hours ago, Just Joshin' said:

I think it says more about Darnold's ability and desire to change.  Josh is driven, Darnold does not appear to be driven to be the best.

Also, some guys just turn it on when the bullets start flying. 

 

In the Brady 6 documentary, Steve Mariucci is talking about Gio Carmazzi  vs Brady in the HOF game their rookie year. Carmazzi got hit and looked like he lost confidence. Brady got more fiery.

 

Josh is closer to Brady in that regard. Darnold is closer to Blake Bortles right now

[BuffaloRebound]

I don’t think there’s any position in any sport whose success is as dependent on the coach and organization as QB is.  Darnold was doomed the second the Jets drafted him.  Would have been the same if the Bills drafted him between 2000 and 2016.  

[C.Biscuit97]

28 minutes ago, Captain Hindsight said:

Also, some guys just turn it on when the bullets start flying. 

 

In the Brady 6 documentary, Steve Mariucci is talking about Gio Carmazzi  vs Brady in the HOF game their rookie year. Carmazzi got hit and looked like he lost confidence. Brady got more fiery.

 

Josh is closer to Brady in that regard. Darnold is closer to Blake Bortles right now

I don’t think this is fair.  That organization is a disaster.  And it’s not like he has had some good moments as a pro.  Which receiver do they have that would start over our guys?  

[mjt328]

It should tell you that a QB's success is more about the player himself, and coaching is only a small piece of the pie.

 

Josh Allen has the same trainer as Sam Darnold, and started his career with much worse throwing mechanics.  Yet in 2-3 years time, Allen has drastically improved his mechanics and become the better player, while Darnold is stuck in about the same place.

 

And for everyone blaming the supporting cast, don't forget that Baker Mayfield also comes from the same draft class.  The play-makers around him (Beckham, Landry, Chubb, Njoku) are arguably just as good as in Buffalo.  And this is Mayfield's second year with those guys.  Yet his play seemed to plateau in his rookie season.

 

 

[mjt328]

48 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said:

I don’t think there’s any position in any sport whose success is as dependent on the coach and organization as QB is.  Darnold was doomed the second the Jets drafted him.  Would have been the same if the Bills drafted him between 2000 and 2016.  

 

The majority of starting QB prospects are picked in the Top 10 of the draft.  Many were the #1 pick overall.

Which means they went to arguably the worst organizations in the entire NFL at the time.

 

If Sam Darnold is going to be a great QB, he should be able to raise the play of the guys around him.

You can see Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson often carrying the offenses around them.  You can't see that from Darnold, Mayfield or Rosen.

 

[thenorthremembers]

3 hours ago, Mrbojanglezs said:

Darnold was closer to his ceiling when he was drafted then Josh was.

This right here plays into it in a very big way.   There is nothing elite about Darnold.   There is nothing about his game that you can rely on to take over a game.  His arm is average, his speed is average, his accuracy is average.   He doesnt have the physical tools to overcome a lack of mechanics.   Generally, those guys end up as backups.  There were a couple out routes he threw during the game that he struggled to get to the sideline, that is also something that becomes a big problem in the NFL.

 

[Captain Hindsight]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I don’t think this is fair.  That organization is a disaster.  And it’s not like he has had some good moments as a pro.  Which receiver do they have that would start over our guys?  

None, but i would expect the number 3 overall pick to make a better decision than to roll left do some little hop step and throw into triple coverage.

 

His decision making is awful. His footwork is terrible and he is incredibly inconsistent. Which Darnold shows up next week? That's his game right now and in year 3 (second in this system) I'd expect him to be better. Supporting cast aside, he needs to be better

[Doc]

Sam will make a good backup to Josh in 2022.

[Nick the Greek]

8 hours ago, CBennett said:

That Darnold doesnt have a lot to work with and is pretty much hamstrung talent wise on the offensive side of things...the only thing the Jets have going for them is a pretty stout defensive frontline Vs the run.

 

8 hours ago, aristocrat said:

He doesn’t have weapons and the o line was letting guys in the backfield.  Guy isn’t a miracle worker 

I agree but come on. Darnold looked really bad. Missing throws, going 3 and out. He could have gotten something going, but he never did. 

[blacklabel]

8 hours ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

The Jets have Gase as the HC and Darnold is already on his third OC. Guy is getting different messages and playbooks every year. 
The Jets have given other teams the blueprint on how to give your new QB as little chance for success. 

 

Second OC. He had Jeremy Bates his rookie year and it's been Loggains since 2019. Bates and Loggains have also served as QB coaches for Darnold's career. I thought he had three OCs already as well so I had to check. 

 

I think it's Gase, really. Not that you can trust everything the media reports but if nine outta ten people say you're an assh*le, then you're probably an assh*le. It just does not seem like his players enjoy playing for him. I saw it with Miami and now with the Jets, when Gase is HC there's like zero spark or energy on the sidelines. In Miami, if those Gase-led teams got down by 10 or more points, forget it, it was over. No communication the sidelines, no one trying to rally everyone, just blank expressions all along the bench. And it doesn't reflect well on coaching when some of the better players on your team actively find a way out. Gase just seems like a standoffish pr*ck who couldn't care less about results, just so long as his paychecks are deposited every week. Strange dude. Doesn't strike me as a true leader. 

 

As for Darnold, I feel like he would probably be doing better in a different situation. I think he needs a coach who wants to sit down and really figure out who he is and how he approaches and plays the game. With Gase it feels like, "This is my system and it is impeccable, you will learn it, you will adapt your game to it." When it should be, "Here's our system, we're gonna adapt it to your skills and develop it from there." I also feel like Darnold is more of a quiet type of person so his leadership might be more of a "lead by example" approach instead of a guy like Allen who leads by example but also has an extroverted personality that allows him to be a vocal leader as well. I also think Josh just has more of a "I want this" vibe to him. Josh had to scrape and claw his way through zero DI offers and JUCO and all that just to get himself on the map. Sam was a four-star recruit and the starter at USC three games into his second year there. Not saying he's had it handed to him, but his path to the NFL differs a lot from Josh. Get Darnold in the right situation with a better coach that will adapt their system to his skills and take the time to really get on the same wavelength and I think he'd be really good. With the way the Jets are going, I can't see him succeeding there. 

[TBBills]

9 hours ago, cage said:

It's interesting that both Allen and Darnold work out together all off-season and both have been religiously working with Jordan Palmer.  It appears to have had a positive affect on Josh as he's steadily improved and we saw that in his passing this Sunday as he starts his 3rd year.  Here is the write-up on Darnold's performance on The Athletic after reviewing the tape

 

Sorry, paid site link, but I'll quote a bit of it:

https://theathletic.com/2064818/2020/09/14/after-further-review-23-next-day-thoughts-after-the-jets-week-1-beatdown/

 

"We talked a lot about Darnold after the game. It felt warranted after the quarterback’s poor performance. After watching the film on Monday, I probably wasn’t harsh enough on the 23-year-old.

 

The biggest concern on rewatch, though, was Darnold’s footwork. Adam Gase and Dowell Loggains have done everything they can to hammer the need for Darnold to align his footwork with his body. He has a tendency to to align himself one way, see something somewhere else, then move his torso without resetting his feet to try to hit his target. Seldom, if ever, does this lead to an accurate pass. The Jets might get away with it — but it’s not smart.

 

There were several times where Darnold, despite this being a point of emphasis last season and over the offseason, went back to his old ways."

 

I dont think Palmer showed him how to pass when getting sacked

[ghostwriter]

He needs to go to a different city.. hopefully the Jets don’t tank for Trevor Lawrence.. his confidence looks shot... Gase ruined him.. I mean who do they actually have at WR? Darnold was supposed to be a cerebral QB with an accurate arm... but he just does not have the God given talent Allen has... he just can’t pick up and carry a team the way Allen can.. Allen’s arm strength is freaking rare..

[Penfield45]

Darnold will get better as the season goes on, but idk if that will translate to wins

 

jets like us have a brutal schedule but don't have half the talent we have. hopefully they don't end up with a top 3 pick

[TwistofFate]

13 hours ago, cage said:

It's interesting that both Allen and Darnold work out together all off-season and both have been religiously working with Jordan Palmer.  It appears to have had a positive affect on Josh as he's steadily improved and we saw that in his passing this Sunday as he starts his 3rd year.  Here is the write-up on Darnold's performance on The Athletic after reviewing the tape

 

Sorry, paid site link, but I'll quote a bit of it:

https://theathletic.com/2064818/2020/09/14/after-further-review-23-next-day-thoughts-after-the-jets-week-1-beatdown/

 

"We talked a lot about Darnold after the game. It felt warranted after the quarterback’s poor performance. After watching the film on Monday, I probably wasn’t harsh enough on the 23-year-old.

 

The biggest concern on rewatch, though, was Darnold’s footwork. Adam Gase and Dowell Loggains have done everything they can to hammer the need for Darnold to align his footwork with his body. He has a tendency to to align himself one way, see something somewhere else, then move his torso without resetting his feet to try to hit his target. Seldom, if ever, does this lead to an accurate pass. The Jets might get away with it — but it’s not smart.

 

There were several times where Darnold, despite this being a point of emphasis last season and over the offseason, went back to his old ways."

 

 

 

Allen's footwork was light years ahead of what it was last year.   Hopefull, he will not regress in the same manner.

[apuszczalowski]

Probably says that Palmer is not a miracle worker......

[Augie]

It says Palmer can’t block or catch for Darnold? I’ll start with that.......

[Chandler#81]

13 hours ago, MJS said:

Darnold is in a bad situation. Reverse teams and I KNOW Josh would be struggling in New Jersey, and I'm fairly confident Darnold would be progressing nicely in Buffalo.

I disagree. Josh has too much ‘Want To!’ in him. Like Favre, Tarkenton, or even Archie Manning, QBs like these simply wont allow poor teammates to make them shrink.

 

Darnold doesn’t have ‘It’.

[Don Otreply]

On 9/15/2020 at 8:34 AM, BarkLessWagMore said:

Nothing. You can't fix what's lacking between the ears.

 

Also, I wouldn't give up on Darnold just yet. He has had zero stability and consistently awful coaching. He may be OK with the right situation.

This ^^^

 

I’ll  certainly agree that Gase and Co are a sh-t show for sure, and that is not benefiting Darnold. 

But some folk are good in a classroom, but are poor in transferring that knowledge into a practical application setting. When I ran a bicycle shop we had customers who were Pratt and Whitney engineers, a couple of which couldn’t change a flat tire on their racing bikes to save their own lives, they knew the steps required, had seen it demonstrated repeatedly, but would almost always puncture the new tube at some point while installing it.  It is what it is with some folk. Darnold as smart as he is may be one of those guys. 

Edited September 16, 2020 by Don Otreply

[BillnutinHouston]

Anyone who's ever been a supervisor or leader knows that you can coach, teach, cajole, incentivize, etc as much as you want, and still not get the proper outcomes.  Ultimately the execution is in the pupil/player/employee's hands.