LeviF Posted September 16, 2020 Posted September 16, 2020 (edited) Don't EVER plead guilty to a speeding ticket. Depending on where you are there's a whole process for the state to basically collect court surcharges (plus a little extra for the county) with no points on your license. Some places you show up to court on the day indicated on your ticket and the prosecutor will sit down and say "ok plead guilty to parking on pavement there's no points judge will tell you your fine" or you might have to show up a few times after pleading not guilty the day of. Sometimes the cop who wrote you will drop by the 2nd or 3rd court date and talk with the prosecutor (seems like that's what he's indicated) and work out a lesser, probably non-moving, violation for you to settle on and pony up some cash (much less than your speeding ticket would have been). All that fails, you can go have your day in court with a little trial for your moving violation. If the officer doesn't show up - you win! If he does show up, there's all sorts of stuff the state has to prove in order to make their case. Why would you gift them anything? Our legal system is set up to help defendants more than anyone else. Way too many good outcomes to showing up and pleading not guilty. Edit: as mentioned downthread this advice is for NYS ONLY. Other states have a different way of doing things. Edited September 16, 2020 by LeviF91 2
Steve O Posted September 16, 2020 Posted September 16, 2020 12 hours ago, Not at the table Karlos said: Brother had a cop say the same thing. Was a small town and only people that had court that day was my brother and another guy. She tried to talk to my brother before court and when he said he was pleading not guilty she threatened him with a bunch of bullstuff charges. I chimed in saying that’s illegal and she threatened me with arrest. I started recording her and she lost her mind. NEVER EVER BELIEVE A POLICE OFFICER. THEY ARE NOT HERE TO HELP YOU. THEY ARE NOT HERE TO SERVE OR PROTECT. Always record any interaction. Be polite but you have rights and they’re just here to provide a revenue stream for the state. That's unfortunate. Most cops are decent and will treat you respectfully so long as they are treated that way. I've gotten out of two tickets where I was clearly in the wrong by rolling down my window and putting my arms out, then being nice (very nice) to the cop when he got to the car (male cop both times.) As in any position that affords one with power, there are a few folks that let that power go to their heads. If this has been your only interaction with the police I can understand how it would shape your opinion on them in general. 1
NoSaint Posted September 16, 2020 Posted September 16, 2020 5 minutes ago, Steve O said: That's unfortunate. Most cops are decent and will treat you respectfully so long as they are treated that way. I've gotten out of two tickets where I was clearly in the wrong by rolling down my window and putting my arms out, then being nice (very nice) to the cop when he got to the car (male cop both times.) As in any position that affords one with power, there are a few folks that let that power go to their heads. If this has been your only interaction with the police I can understand how it would shape your opinion on them in general. So if it were just a tiny number that’d be one thing. And if the ones not doing it were fast to fill out reports on the ones causing issues it’d also go a long way. I get it- most are good. Many are great. Plenty are inconsistent at best and enforcing laws/policies that aren’t perfect. Few are actively monsters. But to pretend the issue is a matter of “you just got the very rare bad experience” ends up sounding condescending 1
LeviF Posted September 16, 2020 Posted September 16, 2020 48 minutes ago, NoSaint said: So if it were just a tiny number that’d be one thing. And if the ones not doing it were fast to fill out reports on the ones causing issues it’d also go a long way. I get it- most are good. Many are great. Plenty are inconsistent at best and enforcing laws/policies that aren’t perfect. Few are actively monsters. But to pretend the issue is a matter of “you just got the very rare bad experience” ends up sounding condescending Well when you're responding to someone whose post has a very distinct "that happened" tone you only have a choice between a few attitudes and condescension is probably the nicest of them.
shrader Posted September 16, 2020 Posted September 16, 2020 I'm not really sure on why a thread about whether or not to contest a speeding ticket has to turn into this garbage. 1
DrDawkinstein Posted September 16, 2020 Posted September 16, 2020 (edited) For every ticket I've received in NYS, I ALWAYS plead not guilty and go to court. And EVERY TIME, they reduce it to other types of tickets, no points, pay a fine... but you'll probably have to take the 6-hour course (if that is still a thing). Especially is you get a ticket on the highway. Go to court and they reduce it to something where the town keeps the money instead of sending it to the state. I learned the hard way that other states do it differently. No such luck in Ohio and Georgia. But NY, absolutely plead not guilty and go to court. If the cop already said he'd help you out then you WILL get it reduced. Edited September 16, 2020 by DrDawkinstein 1
LeviF Posted September 16, 2020 Posted September 16, 2020 2 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: I learned the hard way that other states do it differently. No such luck in Ohio and Georgia. But NY, absolutely plead not guilty and go to court. Yes, forgot to mention that before. NY is a different animal than other places.
DrDawkinstein Posted September 16, 2020 Posted September 16, 2020 Just now, LeviF91 said: Yes, forgot to mention that before. NY is a different animal than other places. Ha, yeah. My first ticket in GA I automatically plead not guilty and went to court. Showed up and waited all day in court for my turn, they call me up and say "Ok, if you say you arent guilty, what is your proof you werent speeding?". I was like "Uhhh, dont you reduce it just for me showing up? Fine, I'm guilty." lol, good ol NY
LeviF Posted September 16, 2020 Posted September 16, 2020 Just now, DrDawkinstein said: Ha, yeah. My first ticket in GA I automatically plead not guilty and went to court. Showed up and waited all day in court for my turn, they call me up and say "Ok, if you say you arent guilty, what is your proof you werent speeding?". I was like "Uhhh, dont you reduce it just for me showing up? Fine, I'm guilty." lol, good ol NY "Gee, counselor, didn't realize it was guilty until proven innocent here!" Course that wouldn't get you any help. Does GA have a point system similar to NY or is it just a sliding scale fine depending on how fast you're going? 1
DrDawkinstein Posted September 16, 2020 Posted September 16, 2020 2 minutes ago, LeviF91 said: "Gee, counselor, didn't realize it was guilty until proven innocent here!" Course that wouldn't get you any help. Does GA have a point system similar to NY or is it just a sliding scale fine depending on how fast you're going? It was 12 years ago now (knock on wood), but I believe it's both? Points on your license and a sliding fine scale. If that's what you are asking. The weird thing here is the Nolo Contendre plea, which is what I ended up doing. It's not really a plea either way. Neither "Guilty" nor "Not Guilty". But certainly confusing... Quote Pleas If you plead guilty or nolo contendere in court, your fine could be up to $1,000, and you could be required to serve up to 12 months for state law violations or six months for local ordinance violations in jail or on probation. If you are sentenced to probation, you may also be required to pay a monthly probation supervision fee. Pleading Guilty to a Traffic Offense If you plead guilty to a traffic offense, points may be assessed on your license. A guilty plea to a moving violation will be reported to the Department of Driver Services (DDS) as required by law, and the guilty plea will appear on your driving record. Pleading Nolo Contendere to a Traffic Offense You may plead nolo contendere (no contest) to a traffic offense, but only if you have not entered a nolo contendere plea to another traffic offense in the last five years. The judge has discretion whether to accept a nolo contendere plea. A nolo contendere plea to a moving violation will be reported to Department of Driver Services (DDS) as required by law, and the nolo contendere plea will appear on your driving record. The difference between a nolo plea and a guilty plea is that a nolo plea does not result in points against your license. However, since you are allowed only one nolo plea every five years, if you plead nolo to this citation and you have another nolo on your record from the last five years, DDS will consider this nolo contendere plea a guilty plea and points may be assessed against your license. Remember: if you enter a nolo contendere plea, you can not plead nolo again to any traffic violation for the next five years.
apuszczalowski Posted September 16, 2020 Posted September 16, 2020 7 hours ago, ExiledInIllinois said: Because just like drug dealers, the government would kill it's customers and run out of people. Everybody would be walking. I guess that's safety after all! but how do you get a parking violation for speeding? they couldn't be more opposite, lol I know many may get the charge knocked down to say you were caught going less then you actually were which makes sense to give a break (They may say you were going 10 over instead of 20)
DrDawkinstein Posted September 16, 2020 Posted September 16, 2020 51 minutes ago, apuszczalowski said: but how do you get a parking violation for speeding? they couldn't be more opposite, lol I know many may get the charge knocked down to say you were caught going less then you actually were which makes sense to give a break (They may say you were going 10 over instead of 20) $$$$ Where the money for the fines goes changes based on the charge. Example: I get pulled over on the 90 by a NYS Trooper between the Hamburg and Blasdell exits. I plead Not Guilty, and get a court date at Hamburg Town Court (since that is where the ticket was technically written). If they keep the speeding charge, my fine $ goes to NYS. If they knock it down to 3 parking tickets, Hamburg gets that $ instead. 2
BillnutinHouston Posted September 16, 2020 Posted September 16, 2020 I've tried fighting a ticket based on multiple errors made on the ticket itself. I had the officer lie on the stand, and alter his copy of the ticket before the court date. Who do you think the judge believed? You have a mountain of factors against you. Pay it and move on.
ExiledInIllinois Posted September 17, 2020 Posted September 17, 2020 3 hours ago, BillnutinHouston said: I've tried fighting a ticket based on multiple errors made on the ticket itself. I had the officer lie on the stand, and alter his copy of the ticket before the court date. Who do you think the judge believed? You have a mountain of factors against you. Pay it and move on. True. But if everybody drove up the cost of doing business. Get continuance, etc... It could clog the courts, cost them money and put a crimp on the traffic court scam of justice. BUT, it will cost you your time. They government knows that, why they don't make fines too oppressive. Everybody enters the racket, they keep you on a leash. Friends and family in the club get a pass. Epitome of crooked government. Why not move to a non-monetary system. That would actually promote safety. That will never happen, because they actually have to do something with you, like community service. Easier for them to bust into your bankbook and take food off a family's table because somebody made a mistake. That's the revolving door where the real money is.
Niagara Bill Posted September 17, 2020 Posted September 17, 2020 I am surprised by the number of people who say fight...based on what principle. Do you think school zones are against your rights and civil liberties. Is it unconstitutional. You may have endangered young children. Ask the parents who hace kids in this area. Take it as a lesson. Pay the penalty and pledge to yourself to be a more careful citizen. And call the police chief and report the cowardly cop who just actually told you not to respect the law. Just another point of view. 1
oldmanfan Posted September 17, 2020 Posted September 17, 2020 This may be an old fashioned concept, but what about taking responsibility for your actions, realizing you were wrong, and paying the penalty? 1
SoTier Posted September 17, 2020 Posted September 17, 2020 On 9/15/2020 at 7:58 AM, Brennan Huff said: 33 in 15. I didn’t realize it was 15 but I probably should have. I know I should at least go to traffic court but should I get a lawyer? Any help would be appreciated Have you gotten other speeding tix? If not, definitely go to traffic court and take their offer for paying $150 or so for a parking ticket which will not count as a moving violation and save you $$ on your insurance going forward, especially if you have a safe driver discount now. Most local traffic courts are more than willing to deal speeding tix down to parking tix for drivers who aren't frequent violators because all of the parking ticket money stays locally while moving violation ticket monies are split with NYS. Been there, done that.
SoTier Posted September 17, 2020 Posted September 17, 2020 On 9/15/2020 at 11:33 AM, shrader said: Is the school even open? I'm not sure whether or not that matters, but I'm curious. During the school year, you have to obey school zone rules. Most school zone speed zone signs also say "between 7 and 4 on school days" or similar. That means Monday through Friday except on legal holidays like Columbus Day or Thanksgiving break. Some school zones have flashing lights during school hours and signs say "speed limit 20 mph when flashing". Unfortunately, I've seen those lights not flashing when the school was obviously in session and sometimes flashing on weekends.
LeviF Posted September 17, 2020 Posted September 17, 2020 17 minutes ago, Niagara Bill said: I am surprised by the number of people who say fight...based on what principle. Do you think school zones are against your rights and civil liberties. Is it unconstitutional. You may have endangered young children. Ask the parents who hace kids in this area. Take it as a lesson. Pay the penalty and pledge to yourself to be a more careful citizen. And call the police chief and report the cowardly cop who just actually told you not to respect the law. Just another point of view. 12 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: This may be an old fashioned concept, but what about taking responsibility for your actions, realizing you were wrong, and paying the penalty? Is this the advice you'd give a family member or child of yours if they got caught up in something really bad and charged with multiple felonies? "Yes, junior, just tell the nice prosecutor everything that happened and pay the penalty of the next 20 years of your life. Really make sure they throw the book at you in the name of your citizenship." The American justice system works a certain way (for high crimes and misdemeanors as well as traffic violations) for a reason. He most likely will pay a penalty for his actions - it just won't be the penalty codified in the NYS VTL under what he actually did. The guilty plea to a lesser charge serves as a penalty to him for the actions that resulted in a ticket and as a cost savings to the municipality in which he committed the violation. You can accept responsibility without completely falling on your sword. This binary "accept the points on your license, the $600 fine, the $300 DMV fee for the points, 15 days in jail, and an increase in your insurance rates for the next 7 years or else you're a terrible person" line is a lazy take. 1 1
BarleyNY Posted September 17, 2020 Posted September 17, 2020 On 9/15/2020 at 8:59 AM, Steve O said: Then that's what you should do, without a lawyer. Agreed. Show up and you may get it knocked down to non-moving violations. You’ll pay a fine, the city will get their cash and you won’t have points driving up your insurance rates. Shortly after moving to Buffalo I got a ticket in the speed trap on 290. I paid it. The wife got a much worse speeding ticket a year or so later. Much worse speeding violation in a different part of town (Cheektowaga I think). She went to court. It took time but it was an easy process that almost everyone who showed up got to go through. Tickets were knocked down to non moving violations and fines and court costs were paid. One last piece of advice. She dressed very nicely that day - and got busted in an Audi. She paid a much higher fine than anyone else she saw go through. Still, it was way better than it would’ve been. So dress respectfully but not too nice.
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