Can someone explain the Josh Allen hate from Bomani Jones and Dominique Foxworth??

[Jauronimo]

1 minute ago, MJS said:

I agree totally on the first part about Bills fans being thin skinned. I don't quite see eye to eye with you on your point about political enlightenment.

 

So you're saying that if you look at a few profiles of Bills fans and they happen to lean a certain way politically that it makes sense to condemn ALL Bills fans? Nobody in their right mind would do that. Right? That's just a supremely small sample size. You could spend weeks looking at profiles and not even scratch the surface for a fan base, especially the LARGE portions who don't even regularly use social media.

No, I'm not.  Where are you getting that?

[folz]

39 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

Whatabout-isms at their finest! What about Chicago? What about radio guys elsewhere? Come on....

 

Its not being brought up because it’s not the topic. The topic was Allen’s ascension this season, not Bakers, etc. And those fan bases didn’t make national news for treating Kaep the worst in the league. They also haven’t been on national news lately with a racist business owner telling their customers that they were filthy, third world, pieces of poo in the last few weeks. 

Guys, it’s not that hard to see how somebody could get to a spot where they think Buffalo is an inherently racist region. That’s it. Simple as that. 
 

So maybe instead of throwing out a million whataboutisms to deflect to other cities that aren’t a point of discussion, either of you just say, “those people suck, and it’s a shame that our fan base has a-holes on the internet (and in our community) that makes some people have a tough time rooting for us. They take away from some of the great things this region is capable of”
 

The deflection here is the most disingenuous part of this conversation. Aaron Rodgers, Cleveland, it doesn’t matter. 
 

 

 

(Disclaimer) I am not a republican or a democrat. I live in a very liberal city, but grew up in a conservative area. I have friends and family on every side of any issue you can think of to debate, and I love them all.

 

What I think this comes down to is that over the last 4-5 years, many people on the left side of the political aisle have been convinced into believing that any republican or Trump supporter is ipso facto a racist. This is sooooo wrong (and shouldn't even be in the realm of consideration). It hurts me to see intelligent, caring people in my life really believe that 50% of the country are racists. But, when that is your mind set, all it takes is to see one person with a supportive tweet of Trump (or someone on the right), or for someone else to retweet one of Trump's tweets and bam, they are a racist. And considering that western New York is traditionally a conservative area, I am not sure that DF even ever saw anything outwardly racist, all he had to see is someone support Trump and bam, Josh's fans are racists. This is his own issue with seeing racists around every corner and whatever idiotic, unresearched theory he has about the Tyrod situation. It has nothing to do with Josh, Buffalo, or the Bills fan base.

 

And I don't think that you can bring up the Kaepernick issue as racism either, imo. I agree that having signs of Kaep in the crosshairs is extremely distasteful. But these two groups of people were arguing two different issues. And that was the problem with the whole debate. For Kaepernick and his supporters, they were standing up against police brutality towards African Americans, racial profiling, etc. etc. For the more conservative side, they were arguing about not disrespecting the flag/country, what it stood for, supporting veterans, etc. They could never come to terms because they were arguing two different issues and no one would listen to the other side and try and understand their stance. But everyone who didn't support Kaepernick or were angry with him weren't racists (some might have been), but most were just arguing a different issue. And everyone on both sides of that whole thing could have handled it better, no question.

 

And you can hardly call an entire city or region racist because of one stupid, rich real estate owner. Come on dude.

 

There is no question that racism still exists, and we should all call it out/stand against it wherever we see it. But at this point, I feel like a lot of people (like DF) are just chasing ghosts. And that is a good way to actually promote and perpetuate more racism, rather than trying to overcome it, imo.

 

 

[MJS]

27 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

No, I'm not.  Where are you getting that?

You brought up browsing people's profiles and coming to conclusions about them based on their political postings, right? And that gets projected on the fan base.

[Big Blitz]

And I'm not surprised at all here our local media morons coming not to trash Foxworth and defend the fans......nope they're going to trash Tlay Cravis (so cool Nate not using his name for search or links to him purposes or whatever).

 

What a freaking joke these 2 are:

 

And yeah Nate...this is just Twitter "nonsense."

 

 

 

 

That's what you're going to hear on the radio in a few hours.  Jeremy and Howard will spend more time trashing Clay Travis and call for all Bills fans to maybe reflect on how "racist" we are.   

Edited December 17, 2020 by Big Blitz

[SECRET SQUIRREL]

31 minutes ago, folz said:

 

(Disclaimer) I am not a republican or a democrat. I live in a very liberal city, but grew up in a conservative area. I have friends and family on every side of any issue you can think of to debate, and I love them all.

 

What I think this comes down to is that over the last 4-5 years, many people on the left side of the political aisle have been convinced into believing that any republican or Trump supporter is ipso facto a racist. This is sooooo wrong (and shouldn't even be in the realm of consideration). It hurts me to see intelligent, caring people in my life really believe that 50% of the country are racists. But, when that is your mind set, all it takes is to see one person with a supportive tweet of Trump (or someone on the right), or for someone else to retweet one of Trump's tweets and bam, they are a racist. And considering that western New York is traditionally a conservative area, I am not sure that DF even ever saw anything outwardly racist, all he had to see is someone support Trump and bam, Josh's fans are racists. This is his own issue with seeing racists around every corner and whatever idiotic, unresearched theory he has about the Tyrod situation. It has nothing to do with Josh, Buffalo, or the Bills fan base.

 

And I don't think that you can bring up the Kaepernick issue as racism either, imo. I agree that having signs of Kaep in the crosshairs is extremely distasteful. But these two groups of people were arguing two different issues. And that was the problem with the whole debate. For Kaepernick and his supporters, they were standing up against police brutality towards African Americans, racial profiling, etc. etc. For the more conservative side, they were arguing about not disrespecting the flag/country, what it stood for, supporting veterans, etc. They could never come to terms because they were arguing two different issues and no one would listen to the other side and try and understand their stance. But everyone who didn't support Kaepernick or were angry with him weren't racists (some might have been), but most were just arguing a different issue. And everyone on both sides of that whole thing could have handled it better, no question.

 

And you can hardly call an entire city or region racist because of one stupid, rich real estate owner. Come on dude.

 

There is no question that racism still exists, and we should all call it out/stand against it wherever we see it. But at this point, I feel like a lot of people (like DF) are just chasing ghosts. And that is a good way to actually promote and perpetuate more racism, rather than trying to overcome it, imo.

 

 

Incredible post and perfectly put!

[What a Tuel]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I think you're missing a point yourself, Mango, and it's an important one, so I'll go out on a limb here and try to make it.

 

How exactly do you think prejudice originates?  It originates, I believe, in people's experience.  Humans have fantastic innate pattern matching ability and ability to generalize from those perceived patterns.  These are positive survival traits - "don't eat plants with leaves like that" "people with that physical appearance belong to the tribe that's trying to capture our people and take our lands". 

 

Where they become negative, is when we're all one world, all part of one society, yet we're judging other people based on their membership in a group.  Maybe it's a group we personally had a negative experience with - someone of that skin color was a difficult employee, hostile and inefficient.  Someone of that religion did us wrong.  So we generalize, and associate those traits with all people of that skin color or religion.  That's an example of racism or prejudice, and it's wrong.  Period.

 

You're giving examples of racist behavior from a Buffalo business owner in the news.  Apparently Foxworthy, scrolling through social media, found some racist Bills fans.  I'm sure they're there - they're everywhere.  It's entirely appropriate to call that out as he sees it.  AS HE SEES IT.

 

Yet by accepting it as appropriate to generalize and apply it to a whole group of people - Buffalo, Bills fans, Allen supporters - "Its not that hard to see how somebody could get to a spot where they think Buffalo is an inherently racist region" - Foxworthy (and your defense) are doing fundamentally the same thing that generates prejudice and racism in the first place -using our fantastic innate human pattern matching ability and generalizing from one or a handful of observations, to a whole group. 

 

And that's also wrong.  And people get upset about it, and then it deflects from the root problem, which is, as you allude to - that there are sucky people among us.

 

 

 

This is a fantastic point but no one will listen because it takes away their license to discriminate. No one should generalize at all but it happens and they simply dont care who it impacts when they do because they don't see it is a marginalized group in need of protecting. Is discrimination wrong no matter who it is against? Absolutely. 

Edited December 17, 2020 by What a Tuel

[Jauronimo]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I think you're missing a point yourself, Mango, and it's an important one, so I'll go out on a limb here and try to make it.

 

How exactly do you think prejudice originates?  It originates, I believe, in people's experience.  Humans have fantastic innate pattern matching ability and ability to generalize from those perceived patterns.  These are positive survival traits - "don't eat plants with leaves like that" "people with that physical appearance belong to the tribe that's trying to capture our people and take our lands". 

 

Where they become negative, is when we're all one world, all part of one society, yet we're judging other people based on their membership in a group.  Maybe it's a group we personally had a negative experience with - someone of that skin color was a difficult employee, hostile and inefficient.  Someone of that religion did us wrong.  So we generalize, and associate those traits with all people of that skin color or religion.  That's an example of racism or prejudice, and it's wrong.  Period.

 

You're giving examples of racist behavior from a Buffalo business owner in the news.  Apparently Foxworthy, scrolling through social media, found some racist Bills fans.  I'm sure they're there - they're everywhere.  It's entirely appropriate to call that out as he sees it.  AS HE SEES IT.

 

Yet by accepting it as appropriate to generalize and apply it to a whole group of people - Buffalo, Bills fans, Allen supporters - "Its not that hard to see how somebody could get to a spot where they think Buffalo is an inherently racist region" - Foxworthy (and your defense) are doing fundamentally the same thing that generates prejudice and racism in the first place -using our fantastic innate human pattern matching ability and generalizing from one or a handful of observations, to a whole group. 

 

And that's also wrong.  And people get upset about it, and then it deflects from the root problem, which is, as you allude to - that there are sucky people among us.

 

 

Who are you quoting?

[Jauronimo]

27 minutes ago, MJS said:

You brought up browsing people's profiles and coming to conclusions about them based on their political postings, right? And that gets projected on the fan base.

Foxworth brought that up.  That is rather important thing to address if we are going to discuss what Foxworth actually said rather than what many people here hope he said in order to satisfy their thirst for outrage.  How have you interpreted those words to mean I endorse condemning ALL Bills fans?

[Jauronimo]

 This thread is chock full of irony.  Its rife with cancel culture, which is hilarious because many of the same people calling for his job bemoan all the "censorship" on social media and have declared cancel culture to be the greatest existential threat to this republic.  How many people outraged by Foxworth's comments will say something ***** about Californians or Texans for their states general political leanings without batting an eye?  Or take a shot at Floridians for being stupid white trash without a giving it a second thought?  Peak irony is when swaths of people who are generally immune to nuance immediately sniffed out the "hes calling us racist!" dog whistle in the quote below.

 

Quote

"It's based on the people that are defending Josh Allen. I would be 100 percent lying if I said that when Josh does something dumb, a little part of me doesn't get happy. ... It's because the people who are telling me that Josh is the Second Coming, and Josh is better than everybody are people with American flags and dogs and skull and crossbones. … If you go just take a dip into their tweet history, it's some really concerning retweets and likes. … It's not about Josh," Foxworth said. Foxworth added that "generally, I'm pro-player, and I'm looking for ways to understand a player's position and defend a player. But in Josh's case, it's not about him. He is the ground on which we are fighting," Western Journal also noted.

 

Domonique might not like me because of the actions or politics of some of you and I could not care less.  I'm far more interested in how many people will be so chafed by my opening words that they won't read this far and will call me out on my joke at Florida man's expense with a snappy "gotcha" retort as if it wasn't 100% intentional.  

[SydneyBillsFan]

6 hours ago, Doc said:

Foxworth has been fired.

 

Damn...another Wile E. Coyote moment 

[Doc Brown]

1 hour ago, Jauronimo said:

 This thread is chock full of irony.  Its rife with cancel culture, which is hilarious because many of the same people calling for his job bemoan all the "censorship" on social media and have declared cancel culture to be the greatest existential threat to this republic.  How many people outraged by Foxworth's comments will say something ***** about Californians or Texans for their states general political leanings without batting an eye?  Or take a shot at Floridians for being stupid white trash without a giving it a second thought?  Peak irony is when swaths of people who are generally immune to nuance immediately sniffed out the "hes calling us racist!" dog whistle in the quote below.

I think the frustration is if it was the reverse (for example a white ESPN commentator saying he hopes Lamar Jackson fails because his twitter followers are BLM activists posting anti cop rhetoric) they'd either be fired or forced to apologize.  Most likely the former.  This should pry get moved to ppp btw.

[Billsfan1972]

8 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

Oh come on.  What proof do you or anyone have that Allen is a favorite of the Proud Boys?  And who cares if he was? 

 

Why do we have so much trouble calling out a racist in these situations?  By any standard this clowns comments were racist and we wouldn't accept these excuses if a white reporter said something like this.

 

 

We're good people.  Taking a shot at us like this is simply wrong.  Screw this guy.

 

 

 

Actually I would.....  But probably so is Brady, Rodgers & Brees......  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Simon locked this and I concur because, while the discussion has been good for the most part, the line is very thin. 

 

We've already had one very well written post bring up their beliefs about "left side" vs "republican or Trump supporter" and that's going to quickly go down the political wormhole from there.  Maybe it's a line that can't be held, I don't know.  I tried.

 

My kid and I had this discussion 4 years ago.  Her question is: Whoever you support politically: is racism and racist behavior being praised or tolerated a "deal breaker" for you, or is it not?  If you have friends or relatives or associates who say hateful or racist stuff (not at age 15, or 10 years ago, or 5 years ago, but Now, Today, In the present) is that something you're willing to call out and take a stand against, or is it not?

 

I'd like to leave you with this from our good Twitter friend @Brother_Bill.  I would encourage folks to click on the link, and read the story, about Bruce Smith from 1992.

 

I think I've made my views on Foxworth's remarks clear above and it's not fair play for me to reiterate, but the point remains that Foxworth's faulty generalizations don't invalidate whatever underlying observations gave rise to them and shouldn't obscure our need, as individuals, to stand up against racist and otherwise poor individual behavior when encountered. 

 

"It takes all of us", as it says on Josh Allen's helmet

 

Peace out