Cap Space - Tre White Contract is on the books!

[ColoradoBills]

10 minutes ago, Mango said:

Your last part nails it. It doesn’t just put some teams in cap purgatory. It puts nearly the entire league outside of a team or two. Which means there are just players who are out of work. And you basically set franchises back years for the sake of 1 years worth of maintaining the same profit $$$ as 2019. 
 

I think the NFLPA already approved the $175M floor. I could be wrong. We haven’t seen the specifics in how we get there, which I am sure are mapped out pretty specifically. My guess is it is based on a shortened season. If we can get all 16 games and the playoffs in, the cap is going to stay the same or increase $5-10M.  If we get 6 games and no playoffs, we are at $175M. 
 

A lot of this will depend on how well the players and teams do with their internal bubbles. If each team can do as well as the NBA with one big bubble, we should be good to go. If NFL players treat this like the MLB they will effing with their own pay. I would guess/hope the NFLPA is shoving this narrative down players throats every day/week. 

 

I expect the same too.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

51 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

I wouldn't give up hope on Milano.  There are some guys currently on the roster for 2021 that may get cut.  Butler comes to mind.

Guys like Lee Smith and a few others will probably have to be let go and replaced with cheaper versions.

 

While I think Beane would like to wait for the Allen contract to start a few "restructures" he may need to do one of two next season.

Mitch Morse comes to mind there.

 

I still think something is up with Star.  I'm thinking he may retire and the Bills settle with him.  I don't know why.....I just do!

 

The other somewhat surprise cut could be John Brown as he has a pretty hefty cap number assuming G Davis continues to impress unless Brown takes a big paycut.  Smith too is an obvious one, maybe even Spain.

Edited September 14, 2020 by Ed_Formerly_of_Roch

[ColoradoBills]

4 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

I know a lot of people get into the cap and that’s fine, I appreciate the insight.

 

Personally, I don’t understand it and I’m sick and tired of trying to understand the rules when teams in “cap hell” do whatever they want anyways. 😛 

 

Beane has proven himself to be a top 5 manager in this league and I expect he will continue to manage things well. 
 

Seems like getting a big chunk of Whites money done now helps us in the future with Allen and others. 

 

"Cap Hell" is an overused "hot take" word used way too much.  Every year there maybe is 1 or 2 teams in a cap situation that would come

close to that term.

 

The cap going down next year (how much no one knows for sure yet) will put a number of teams in "Cap Hell" which is very unusual.

 

I'm one of he fans that enjoy the financial aspect of the game and IMHO Beane is doing a good job so far trying to build a team for the long haul.

The White contract is another perfect example.  He is paying for players as he goes and not using the "credit card" to build this team.

[JustWinPlease]

1 hour ago, Redneck said:

Interesting - Tre was on his Rookie deal this season.  Next season, the option kicked in.  By signing, he get a huge increase this year (when we had more cap space) and continues to get top-CB $$$ for the rest of the term.

 

Next up: Josh Allen and Edmunds.  Would love to keep Milano, but thats probably not happening.

 

Hard to argue with anything McBeane (in this case, its Beane) does - whoever we lose due to cap, they will figure out how to re-stock the shelves!

Tremaine Edmunds is as important to this team as anyone else...he needs to be kept at all costs.

Allen, Diggs, Edmunds, White...those are your four cornerstones that you cannot lose. (Well, I *hope* Allen gets there, the other 3 are elite.)

Edited September 14, 2020 by JustWinPlease

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

I'm glad they spread the money from the extension over 6 years. Look at the cap hit numbers compared to Jalen Ramsay and Darius Slay:

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/los-angeles-rams/jalen-ramsey-18953/

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/philadelphia-eagles/darius-slay-12317/

 

 

 

[ColoradoBills]

24 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

The other somewhat surprise cut could be John Brown as he has a pretty hefty cap number assuming G Davis continues to impress unless Brown takes a big paycut.  Smith too is an obvious one, maybe even Spain.

 

Browns contract does jump out to anyone looking to create space.  I for one am not going to think I know what needs to be done but

just from my observations of Beane so far I would say he stays for the entire length of his contract.

 

The only way I can give an example of this would be the Trent Murphy contract.  Many fans wanted him gone and his "saving" used somewhere else.

Beane kept him and will no doubt let him go to FA next year.  He will get picked up by another team for decent money and it very possibly could

add a comp pick.  I see a good chance that it could be repeated with Brown.

 

The other reason I can see for doing this is players and agents see this and it becomes a highly desired location to come in to.

Edited September 14, 2020 by ColoradoBills

[MAJBobby]

Other thing about the DT position, if Justin Zimmer continues to improve on what he did with the Jets there is easy cap space to clear at the DT position with him showing he can handle the load.

5 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Browns contract does jump out to anyone looking to create space.  I for one am not going to think I know what needs to be done but

just from my observations of Beane so far I would say he stays for the entire length of his contract.

 

The only way I can give an example of this would be the Trent Murphy contract.  Many fans wanted him gone and his "saving" used somewhere else.

Beane kept him and will no doubt let him go to FA next year.  He will get picked up by another team for decent money and it very possibly could

add a comp pick.  I see a good chance that it could be repeated with Brown.

 

The other reason I can see for doing this is players and agents see this and it becomes a highly desired location to come in to.

Brown will stay through is Contract and likely even get a little extension.  That is unless both Gabe Davis and Hodgins show by the end of the year he is tradable.  The one that I am not sure of is Beasley.  If Gabe Can get to where Beasley is at this year he may be the one that is gone for Cap Savings.

[ColoradoBills]

5 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Other thing about the DT position, if Justin Zimmer continues to improve on what he did with the Jets there is easy cap space to clear at the DT position with him showing he can handle the load.

Brown will stay through is Contract and likely even get a little extension.  That is unless both Gabe Davis and Hodgins show by the end of the year he is tradable.  The one that I am not sure of is Beasley.  If Gabe Can get to where Beasley is at this year he may be the one that is gone for Cap Savings.

 

Trades are definitely on the table.  I didn't want to say it BUT since you brought it up, if a gun was held to my head I would say Beasley would

get traded before Brown.  Although I don't want anything to change with the WRs next year at all.

[MAJBobby]

8 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Trades are definitely on the table.  I didn't want to say it BUT since you brought it up, if a gun was held to my head I would say Beasley would

get traded before Brown.  Although I don't want anything to change with the WRs next year at all.

Me either.  And I dont think they will have to do anything drastic as I do not think the cap is going to drop next year

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

1 hour ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Browns contract does jump out to anyone looking to create space.  I for one am not going to think I know what needs to be done but

just from my observations of Beane so far I would say he stays for the entire length of his contract.

 

The only way I can give an example of this would be the Trent Murphy contract.  Many fans wanted him gone and his "saving" used somewhere else.

Beane kept him and will no doubt let him go to FA next year.  He will get picked up by another team for decent money and it very possibly could

add a comp pick.  I see a good chance that it could be repeated with Brown.

 

The other reason I can see for doing this is players and agents see this and it becomes a highly desired location to come in to.

 

But the one difference I see with Brown is his potential replacement is already on the roster in Davis.  By next year he'll have one year experience under his belt.  Where as this year with Murphy, there really wasn't a young cheap replacement for him.  And they don't have a star on the other end like they do in Diggs.  Hughes is good, but not a pro bowl type. 

 

I think Brown is worth keeping, but not sure how they can afford him and sign someone like a Milano unless the cap does go up a fair amount more next year than expected.  I'd make the same argument to for keeping Milano as his replacement is not currently on the roster

[ColoradoBills]

1 hour ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

But the one difference I see with Brown is his potential replacement is already on the roster in Davis.  By next year he'll have one year experience under his belt.  Where as this year with Murphy, there really wasn't a young cheap replacement for him.  And they don't have a star on the other end like they do in Diggs.  Hughes is good, but not a pro bowl type. 

 

I think Brown is worth keeping, but not sure how they can afford him and sign someone like a Milano unless the cap does go up a fair amount more next year than expected.  I'd make the same argument to for keeping Milano as his replacement is not currently on the roster

 

All good points but I would guess that a lot has to do with the results for everyone this year.

It would be hard to get rid of Brown after he catches the winning TD in the SB!

LOL.

[Dat]

https://www.spotrac.com/research/nfl/contract-comparison-ramsey-vs-white-1087/

 

Contract Comparison: Ramsey vs. White

Jalen Ramsey’s 5 year $100M extension

• Total Value: $100M (1st)
• AAV: $20M (1st)
• AAV % of Cap: 10% (1st)
• 1-Year 1 Cash: $26.2M (1st)
• 2-Year Cash: $43.7M (1st)
• 3-Year Cash: $58.7M (1st)
• 4-Year Cash: $75.7M (1st)
• Guarantee at Signing: $43.7M (2nd)
• Practical Guarantees: $71.2M (1st)
• Signing Bonus: $25M (1st)

Tre’Davious White’s 4 year $69M extension

• Total Value: $69M (5th
• AAV: $17.25M (2nd)
• AAV % of Cap: 8.7% (3rd)
• 1-Year 1 Cash: $18.75M (6th)
• 2-Year Cash: $37M (3rd)
• 3-Year Cash: $48M (3rd)
• 4-Year Cash: $58.1M (4th)
• Guarantee at Signing: $36.7M (3rd)
• Practical Guarantees: $55.25M (2nd)
• Signing Bonus: $10.5M (11th)

Concluding Thoughts

When Jalen Ramsey’s deal was announced, it was clear as day that Tre’Davious White’s contract wasn’t in the same stratosphere. However, with the details now laid out in front of us, it’s clear that White’s deal isn’t even 2ND amongst his position in many of the major categories. Buffalo scored a fairly team-friendly deal from their All-Pro DB.

In terms of Ramsey, did the Rams reach too high? As many have noted, the trade compensation that brought Jalen to LA (two first round picks & a 4th round pick) immediately pushed his contract demands to a new level. Subsequently, the WR market continued to rise this summer, with DeAndre Hopkins, Keenan Allen, & Amari Cooper eclipsing the $20M mark. The cornerback market has long been trying to keep up with the rise of the WR numbers, so the push to $20M was always in play here, and Ramsey’s base value reaches that plateau exactly.

Who benefits next? The player most likely to see a financial gain isn’t even a cornerback. Newly acquired Seahawks safety Jamal Adams now sits as the next player to be traded for two first rounds picks (plus a 3rd, & a player) with his eyes on a sophomore contract extension. The current high bar at safety is Budda Baker’s new $14.75M mark, a figure Adams should easily surpass in a year or so (his contract will not be addressed until after the 2020 season per terms of the trade).

Edited September 15, 2020 by Dat

[GunnerBill]

21 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

 

With Butler you Save 6.85M by cutting him next year as well.  So he could easily be moved on from 

 

Isn't Butler a one year deal? Thought it was?

[MAJBobby]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Isn't Butler a one year deal? Thought it was?

Two year deal with an easy out after this year.

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/vernon-butler-18978/

[GunnerBill]

14 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Two year deal with an easy out after this year.

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/vernon-butler-18978/

 

Thanks. That is easy space then. He is a cut.

[Canadian Bills Fan]

What about if we cut Star and Trent?

 

would that save us more?

[formerlyofCtown]

On 9/14/2020 at 12:16 PM, Redneck said:

Interesting - Tre was on his Rookie deal this season.  Next season, the option kicked in.  By signing, he get a huge increase this year (when we had more cap space) and continues to get top-CB $$$ for the rest of the term.

 

Next up: Josh Allen and Edmunds.  Would love to keep Milano, but thats probably not happening.

 

Hard to argue with anything McBeane (in this case, its Beane) does - whoever we lose due to cap, they will figure out how to re-stock the shelves!

Yup.  Not keeping Milano just like we cut Murphy this off-season.  Milano is an important piece in this D.

[ColoradoBills]

1 hour ago, Canadian Bills Fan said:

What about if we cut Star and Trent?

 

would that save us more?

 

Trent Murphy is a FA next year.

 

The Star situation just seems bizarre to me.  He opted out this year and he doesn't seem (to me at least) to really want to keep playing football.

He accepted a small pay cut before the season started and I get a feeling that he may retire with some sort of settlement with the Bills.

Beane is spending a lot of effort looking at a lot of young/cheap DTs so if Star is a lock to come back next season I don't see the reason for all of that.

Like other have said, Butler seems likely as a cut next year.

[Tuco]

23 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

Both the Owners and the NFLPA would not want a roughly a 25M drop in one year when the Cap has been climbing 10M a year since the CBA was signed.  I think if anything as you said the Cap stays at 200M worst case with a 5M increase in 2022 and 5M increase in 2023 to offset.  The PA wont allow that big of a drop in cap, alot of guys will lose jobs and teams still wont be able to sign them.  

They have already agreed to that big of a drop in cap. Most businesses and employees in America have lost wages of some sort this year because their employer lost wages. The CBA is very specific in how the cap is tabulated, and the players voted to keep their salaries the same this year even though league revenue is way down. The agreement they made was that revenue (and subsequent salary drop) will be made up next year (and possibly beyond).

 

The cap is based every year on the projected revenue for the year, and then there is an adjustment made every year to reflect any difference in the projected revenue to the actual revenue from the previous year. So it's very possible the cap next year may be $200 million. But then there will be a huge adjustment because the players voted, and the NFLPA agreed, that instead of taking any kind of pay cut this year, they would proceed as normal with the cap, with the exception that any adjustment that makes the cap lower than $175 million in 2021 will be pushed even further into the next year(s).

 

So what happens? The NFL has a huge difference in revenue this year compared to what was projected, and subsequently the players are getting a much larger portion of revenue this year than they should according to the CBA. How much revenue difference? Well it's hard to say, but using some rough math we can say conservatively there's about 60,000 tickets not being sold every game. So let's say $100 per ticket average, times 60,000 = $6,000,000 times 8 home games per team = $48,000,000 times 32 teams = $1,536,000,000.  Add in loss of parking, concessions, luxury suites, 12 playoff games and the Super Bowl, etc., we can easily see a revenue shortfall of , let's say, $1.8 billion. 

 

Anybody who thinks the league is going to ignore that kind of money in the name of keeping their salary cap flat is delusional. So let's take the players'  roughly 48% of $1.8 billion, that's $864,000,000 in total reduction that needs to be rectified in the 2021 cap. $864,000,000/32 teams means a reduction adjustment of $27 million in cap for each team. So even if next year's cap does go up to $200 based on next year's revenue projections, it will then have $27 million subtracted (or actually $25 million so it doesn't go below $175 in 2021 and the rest pushed back another year).

 

Now people saying this isn't going to happen because it will create cap hell for a lot of teams don't seem to understand, it's already been bargained and negotiated. It's what they were doing right before training camp while they were hashing out all the other COVID rules. And all teams are expecting it to happen. It's been agreed to by both sides already. And unless there's some changes in the amount of fans allowed into games it's going to be ugly next year. Everybody knows it. The owners aren't stupid when it comes to money, and they were actually pushing for the floor to be $165 million next year. There's a reason for that. They know how much revenue they're losing. 

 

People need to stop thinking the league will ignore around $1.5 - $2.0 billion in lost revenue in the name of keeping their salary cap flat. They've already made that decision.

 

 

[MAJBobby]

2 minutes ago, Tuco said:

They have already agreed to that big of a drop in cap. Most businesses and employees in America have lost wages of some sort this year because their employer lost wages. The CBA is very specific in how the cap is tabulated, and the players voted to keep their salaries the same this year even though league revenue is way down. The agreement they made was that revenue (and subsequent salary drop) will be made up next year (and possibly beyond).

 

The cap is based every year on the projected revenue for the year, and then there is an adjustment made every year to reflect any difference in the projected revenue to the actual revenue from the previous year. So it's very possible the cap next year may be $200 million. But then there will be a huge adjustment because the players voted, and the NFLPA agreed, that instead of taking any kind of pay cut this year, they would proceed as normal with the cap, with the exception that any adjustment that makes the cap lower than $175 million in 2021 will be pushed even further into the next year(s).

 

So what happens? The NFL has a huge difference in revenue this year compared to what was projected, and subsequently the players are getting a much larger portion of revenue this year than they should according to the CBA. How much revenue difference? Well it's hard to say, but using some rough math we can say conservatively there's about 60,000 tickets not being sold every game. So let's say $100 per ticket average, times 60,000 = $6,000,000 times 8 home games per team = $48,000,000 times 32 teams = $1,536,000,000.  Add in loss of parking, concessions, luxury suites, 12 playoff games and the Super Bowl, etc., we can easily see a revenue shortfall of , let's say, $1.8 billion. 

 

Anybody who thinks the league is going to ignore that kind of money in the name of keeping their salary cap flat is delusional. So let's take the players'  roughly 48% of $1.8 billion, that's $864,000,000 in total reduction that needs to be rectified in the 2021 cap. $864,000,000/32 teams means a reduction adjustment of $27 million in cap for each team. So even if next year's cap does go up to $200 based on next year's revenue projections, it will then have $27 million subtracted (or actually $25 million so it doesn't go below $175 in 2021 and the rest pushed back another year).

 

Now people saying this isn't going to happen because it will create cap hell for a lot of teams don't seem to understand, it's already been bargained and negotiated. It's what they were doing right before training camp while they were hashing out all the other COVID rules. And all teams are expecting it to happen. It's been agreed to by both sides already. And unless there's some changes in the amount of fans allowed into games it's going to be ugly next year. Everybody knows it. The owners aren't stupid when it comes to money, and they were actually pushing for the floor to be $165 million next year. There's a reason for that. They know how much revenue they're losing. 

 

People need to stop thinking the league will ignore around $1.5 - $2.0 billion in lost revenue in the name of keeping their salary cap flat. They've already made that decision.

 

 

Nice laydown, Still think it stays flat.  Watch and see what they do with it