PFF Refocused Week 1 - Bills vs Jets

[MJS]

6 hours ago, ngbills said:

Yes and no. We are mostly casual fans on here so I know this will not happen. But...watch the film and it was not as good of a performance as just the stats show. Not just the fumbles and couple of missed passes. Still too many plays that turn into improvisation which is good at times, but too much is a QB that still struggling a bit with reads and decisions. I guarantee you the coaches and Josh are watching films and even on a play were he scrambles one way and then goes another for a 22 yard run they are saying look at Diggs here and this is when you should have thrown the ball etc. They now you dont win consistently playing that way. In a big game that 22 yard run turns into a 10 yard loss or a bad pass attempt on the run or a fumble. It is finding that balance of scripted vs improv. 

You are talking out of your behind. A big part of the modern NFL game is extending plays and the scramble drill. Aaron Rodgers has made a career out of it. Teams actually practice what to do and what to look for when a play breaks down. Wide receivers are schooled on how to get open and come back for the ball. These things are planned and worked on.

 

There are always things to work on from the previous game. Brady, Manning, Brees, etc. will tell you they always have things to look at and work on after a game. That's a given.

 

Stats are stats. Allen's stats perfectly represent the game he had. No QB is ever 100% completion percentage in a game (Brees got close last year) which means every QB misses throws, or has the passes defended, etc. And every QB throws INT's. So yeah, Allen does have stuff to work on and always will till the day he retires.

[ngbills]

Here is what I said. How is this talking out of my behind.I said it is finding the balance of the two. I felt and it is my opinion that the Bills were not as strong on the scripted portion of the plays as they would have wanted. Yes, of course you take this game. But in a game vbs a better team they dont let you beat them as much with those types of plays. The second half you saw even the Jets defend Allen better. It is a plus to have a QB like Allen that can make something out of nothing. But you plan for the something not the nothing. And I never said anything about 100% passing. I said his stats look better than his play. He lit it up early and then struggled a bit. He will learn and get better. I think this will not be one of his best games of the year but more of a mediocre one when all is said and done. That is being positive not negative. 

 

Yes and no. We are mostly casual fans on here so I know this will not happen. But...watch the film and it was not as good of a performance as just the stats show. Not just the fumbles and couple of missed passes. Still too many plays that turn into improvisation which is good at times, but too much is a QB that still struggling a bit with reads and decisions. I guarantee you the coaches and Josh are watching films and even on a play were he scrambles one way and then goes another for a 22 yard run they are saying look at Diggs here and this is when you should have thrown the ball etc. They now you dont win consistently playing that way. In a big game that 22 yard run turns into a 10 yard loss or a bad pass attempt on the run or a fumble. It is finding that balance of scripted vs improv. 

1 minute ago, MJS said:

You are talking out of your behind. A big part of the modern NFL game is extending plays and the scramble drill. Aaron Rodgers has made a career out of it. Teams actually practice what to do and what to look for when a play breaks down. Wide receivers are schooled on how to get open and come back for the ball. These things are planned and worked on.

 

There are always things to work on from the previous game. Brady, Manning, Brees, etc. will tell you they always have things to look at and work on after a game. That's a given.

 

Stats are stats. Allen's stats perfectly represent the game he had. No QB is ever 100% completion percentage in a game (Brees got close last year) which means every QB misses throws, or has the passes defended, etc. And every QB throws INT's. So yeah, Allen does have stuff to work on and always will till the day he retires.

 

[WideNine]

Lost me at PFF in the title. I think they enjoy peeing in our Cheerios.

 

I still believe that they are homers who selectively emphasize or minimize the stats they feel propel the narrative that they prefer, but hey some folks still think they are objective even when it looked like they were hanging on Mayfield's jock in 2018:

https://clutchpoints.com/browns-news-pff-reveals-baker-mayfields-top-performance-from-2018/

 

My own take is that unlike Allen, Baker Mayfield came out of a great college system and was gifted a ton of talent to work with in his time in the NFL. If he actually used that talent around him effectively yesterday would PFF slant the credit to his receiving core elevating Baker's game or go back to reinforcing their original narrative and saying Mayfield was back to the QB they thought he was in 2018?

 

...yesterday per PFF:

 

"Baker Mayfield didn't seem to trust anything happening around him. When he did trust his first reads, he threw into tight coverage. Baker was 2-of-10 for 25 yards and was sacked twice when pressured.

Even when Mayfield was kept clean, he went only 19-of-34 for 164 yards with one big time throw and two turnover-worthy plays. Odell Beckham Jr. gave the proverbial side eye every time Baker missed a pass in his direction. Beckham caught five balls on seven targets, including a wide-open drop. It’s hard to think of a worse Week 1 performance by an offense in recent years — the Browns stay winless in the PFF era in Week 1s."

 

 

Edited September 14, 2020 by WideNine

[ngbills]

14 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

And don't just accept anything you hear either. 

I know that whoever was calling that game said something about Beasley having a chance to take that to the house but that simply was not going to happen. 

The Jets had dropped into two deep and the Free was already closing on Beasley when Allen let it go.  The safety was on his way and had the angle and if Josh hangs that thing out there, there's a better chance the safety closes on it than anything else. Taking the 30yrds that were available was exactly the right thing to do.

No no no. Watch the film. That ball is placed in the right spot and he is gone. He had beaten the coverage and split the safeties and was running past them. He had to dive for the ball instead of catching in stride and taking it to the house. You dont even need All 22 to see this one. 

[Mr. WEO]

7 hours ago, NoSaint said:

it’s a three sentence praise of our big ticket free agents. Let’s not freak out about lack of nuance for the many other positions involved in passing.

 

Let the man fill his Pampers.....

[Simon]

2 minutes ago, ngbills said:

No no no. Watch the film. That ball is placed in the right spot and he is gone. He had beaten the coverage and split the safeties and was running past them. He had to dive for the ball instead of catching in stride and taking it to the house. You dont even need All 22 to see this one. 

I disagree. The Free was on his way with a good angle and if Allen lays it up there the safety possibly runs it down and breaks it up.

When a defense offers you 30 yards, you take it.

[ngbills]

37 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

We are?  I submit that people who post on a Bills message board are NOT casual fans.

 

If you can be this negative after yesterday's game I shudder to think how negative you will be after the inevitable Allen clunker.

 

 

 

I am actually positive. I just think Josh and Bills can be much better. This game is not the mountain top but just somewhere about mid mountain. As the season goes we will see Josh not having to work as hard to score points. That is all. The offense scored and was productive but it did not go as smoothly as it will. That is the good part about being a good team now...you can not be at your best and still beat bad and average teams. Need to take it up a notch vs KC and BAL. 

[Franco_92]

33 minutes ago, MJS said:

You are talking out of your behind. A big part of the modern NFL game is extending plays and the scramble drill. Aaron Rodgers has made a career out of it. Teams actually practice what to do and what to look for when a play breaks down. Wide receivers are schooled on how to get open and come back for the ball. These things are planned and worked on.

 

There are always things to work on from the previous game. Brady, Manning, Brees, etc. will tell you they always have things to look at and work on after a game. That's a given.

 

Stats are stats. Allen's stats perfectly represent the game he had. No QB is ever 100% completion percentage in a game ( Brees got close last year) which means every QB misses throws, or has the passes defended, etc. And every QB throws INT's. So yeah, Allen does have stuff to work on and always will till the day he retires.

Dont forget about the one and only Gardner Minshew, just yesterday!

[3rdand12]

9 minutes ago, Simon said:

I disagree. The Free was on his way with a good angle and if Allen lays it up there the safety possibly runs it down and breaks it up.

When a defense offers you 30 yards, you take it.

there was more than one pass that i saw Josh protect his WR and this one was the case here as well\ Early one to Diggs had me watching.
The one where Brown and Diggs were tracking the same ball nd Diggs took the two smacks was unfortunate for sure.

 But i saw a much more aware and mature Allen. Most of the time : ) if he hangs that ball out there again when running , daring the defense to come smack him ?       grrrr  lol

Edited September 14, 2020 by 3rdand12

[MJS]

2 minutes ago, arcane said:

Dont forget about the one and only Gardner Minshew, just yesterday!

True! But I believe Brees threw a lot more passes in his one incompletion game.

[Locomark]

8 hours ago, ngbills said:

YAC comes from accuracy. The pass to Beasley that was off target was a ton of lost YAC. Watch the tape and dont just reject anything you dont like to hear. Many throws were checkdowns. Nothing wrong with that. That is why it took 46 attempts to hit 300 yds and total of 179 air yards on 33 completions. Watch the Ravens game - almost half the attempts for 275 yards. He had 202 air yards on only 20 completes. 

Let me tell you right now that Josh Allen has a good chance to eclipse Lamar in passing yards and and will probably end up a very close 2nd to him in rushing yards this year.... there I said it.

[wiley16350]

7 hours ago, ngbills said:

Agreed. Saying that Allen suffers from lack of YAC while others benefit would be like some conspiracy theory. YAC comes from ball placement, timing and making the right read. This is the NFL. Any WR that catches the ball with room to run is going to make that play. Yes, some are clearly better than others but it is not as drastic as some try to imply. Like the Bills WR all just fall down or run out of bounds. We have seen tons of examples of a Bills catch being made but if the ball is thrown a bit better the guy picks up extra yards vs diving for a ball, etc. 

YAC comes from a variety of reasons. John Brown scored a TD off of a screen pass that was almost in the dirt. That YAC was earned by the play call and a defense not prepared to stop it. It is possible that Allen audibled into that or that it was the original call, nobody knows so it is hard to say who earned the YAC for that play (outside of any tackles Brown avoided) but the one thing I do know, it had nothing to do with accuracy. With that said, there are times where YAC is reduced because the QB's accuracy took the receiver to the ground as the throw to Beasley did.

 

Lots of YAC comes from screen passes and check downs. The Bills haven't done a lot of that in the previous 2 years and when they did, they weren't good at it. Receivers also earn YAC by avoiding tackles, so plenty of YAC has nothing to do with the QB. It is also harder for Receivers to get a lot of YAC when playing in tight coverage because they're more often tackled at the catch point. There are also certain routes that are less likely to get YAC because of the positioning of zone defenders. These are the reasons that the Bills haven't been earning much YAC the last couple of years and people want to put that on Allen. In this game, the game plan and the defense they played was more conducive to getting YAC and guess what; more YAC was had. Saying that a QB's accuracy is what earns YAC is way too simplistic of a mind set.

[Mango]

1 hour ago, Simon said:

 

And don't just accept anything you hear either. 

I know that whoever was calling that game said something about Beasley having a chance to take that to the house but that simply was not going to happen. 

The Jets had dropped into two deep and the Free was already closing on Beasley when Allen let it go.  The safety was on his way and had the angle and if Josh hangs that thing out there, there's a better chance the safety closes on it than anything else. Taking the 30yrds that were available was exactly the right thing to do.

Just to note.HOF WR and former Bill, James Lofton made that comment. Just to provide some color to the “whoever was calling that game” 

 

Not calling it a bad throw. That’s probably what Allen saw. I think the point is the result of the better throw was incredibly valuable comparably.  

[ngbills]

6 minutes ago, Simon said:

I disagree. The Free was on his way with a good angle and if Allen lays it up there the safety possibly runs it down and breaks it up.

When a defense offers you 30 yards, you take it.

We can agree to disagree. The safety was behind him and to his left by at least 5 yards. Allen throws that ball in stride Beasley catches and outruns the safety. I could not find any of the analysis with pics out there yet. But here is my amateur shots - not the best angle, end zone shot would be best. You can see if he is able to continue running straight and not have to dive and towards the safety he is gone. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

8 hours ago, ngbills said:

YAC comes from accuracy. The pass to Beasley that was off target was a ton of lost YAC. Watch the tape and dont just reject anything you dont like to hear. Many throws were checkdowns. Nothing wrong with that. That is why it took 46 attempts to hit 300 yds and total of 179 air yards on 33 completions. Watch the Ravens game - almost half the attempts for 275 yards. He had 202 air yards on only 20 completes. 

 

I’m not exactly sure what point you’re trying to make with the Ravens Bills comparison?

 

The Ravens typical offensive game plan is to run the ball with Jackson and Andrews,  RPOs featuring short passing game over the middle primarily to the tight ends, then deep bombs to Marquise Brown when the defense doubles-down on the run.  Different offensive design than most NFL teams, and highlights Lamar Jackson’s best skills.

[TigerJ]

It was a strategic decision by the Bills to have Josh Allen get rid of the ball quickly.  That may not happen every week, but it worked well.   

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, MJS said:

You are talking out of your behind. A big part of the modern NFL game is extending plays and the scramble drill. Aaron Rodgers has made a career out of it. Teams actually practice what to do and what to look for when a play breaks down. Wide receivers are schooled on how to get open and come back for the ball. These things are planned and worked on.

 

There are always things to work on from the previous game. Brady, Manning, Brees, etc. will tell you they always have things to look at and work on after a game. That's a given.

 

Stats are stats. Allen's stats perfectly represent the game he had. No QB is ever 100% completion percentage in a game (Brees got close last year) which means every QB misses throws, or has the passes defended, etc. And every QB throws INT's. So yeah, Allen does have stuff to work on and always will till the day he retires.

 

One of the things I value about this site is how I can encounter people of very different social and political views, and find a connection.  

 

100% agree with your take here.  To amplify it a bit, there were several articles written last fall around how Beasley influenced Daboll to incorporate some of Mouse Davis’ run-and-shoot offense, which highlights “secondary route concepts”.  These were used with great success in the Cowboys game.  (I think the articles were in the Athletic FWIW).

 

To my inexpert eye, the Bills weren’t playing “street ball” after the play broke down - they were employing some of those concepts to good effect in the Moss TD and there was a R sideline completion to Brown where it was pretty clear 1) he extended his route and came back quite a bit on what looked like a secondary route 2) he wound up exactly where Allen expected him to be.

[CincyBillsFan]

And lets not forget the wind.  When you see a refs jersey flapping around you know there are some serious gusts blowing through the stadium.  As Bills fans we understand that you throw the ball differently in these types of games. If the wind is at your back then you have to deliberately under throw the receiver which is what I think we saw with the Allen to Beasely throw.

 

Bottom line is that Allen completing over 70% of his passes for over 300 yards in that wind was an impressive accomplishment.

 

 

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Locomark said:

Let me tell you right now that Josh Allen has a good chance to eclipse Lamar in passing yards and and will probably end up a very close 2nd to him in rushing yards this year.... there I said it.

 

Erm well, MVP Lamar’s passing yards were like 27 in the NFL last year....right behind the #26 Bills.  The Ravens ran a very efficient, effective but not high-yardage passing attack last year.

 

Of course, to your point, some 400 of those #26 yards were not Josh Allen’s due to him missing a game+ with concussion and some passing yards from John Brown.

[Bulldog]

16 hours ago, chris heff said:

Are we related?

It sure looks like it ...

One thing is for sure - good looks run in the family, lol.