Bills release their social justice message

[Bob in STL]

1 minute ago, HamSandwhich said:

Yeah, Black Lives Matter the organization does not actually stand for what most people think they do. There are far better organizations out there that can help that don’t have a Marxist bent. Equality in their eyes means redistribution of wealth aka socialism/communism.

Most people don’t understand the BLM Marxist connections or how they are funded.  I’m not sure I do either and the media will not cover it.  
 

The basic concept of BLM resonates with well intended people, especially young people, because most of us are not racist and we did not raise our kids to be racist.  
 

However, simply blaming and defunding the front line Joe-Blow policeman for these problems won’t solve it either.   Allowing protests to turn into destructive and dangerous riots, some lasting many months, that too is wrong.  This is were we see a good cause become hijacked by extremists.  
 

[HappyDays]

3 minutes ago, jkeerie said:

The majority aren't even aware the organization exists.

 

Count me in this group. I did not know there was a BLM organization until recently. Somewhere between 63% and 67% of Americans support BLM depending on which poll you look at and I would wager the large majority of that group are not talking about that organization that happens to use that name.

[Putin]

2 minutes ago, Johnnycage46 said:

I would say we are primarily a capitalist country.  But with government bail-outs, social programs for low income families, federal financial aid for college we have a mixture.  A true capitalist country would be 100% sink or swim.  Goodbye most farming, auto industry, etc.  

 

I like the mixture.  You can still prosper, but those that truly need the help can get it. 

Socialism is great until the people who pay for it run out of money ,  and then well everyone starves 

[K-9]

2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

What is Marxism?

[Buffalo_Stampede]

5 minutes ago, BillsRdue said:

 

I don't buy it. The influx of money came in an election year at just the right time to cause chaos and push an agenda. When the FBI take a deep dive into BLM's sources of funding and it comes up clean, then they may get some credibility. But sparking outrage over a career criminal who OD'd on Fentanol and a man who repeatedly raped and stole from his ex-girlfirend, when she called the cops looking for protection and he had a weapon is not the best case scenario to drum up support for your cause. 

Don't get me wrong, in each instance I would have loved to see the police not use lethal force and that needs to change with better training and perhaps better means to arrest these criminals. But the fact is that both men committed crimes, needed to be arrested and resisted. It's just not a good look to create so much destruction over.

 

Everyone thinks everything is political. Everything. Black Lives Matter became a thing during the Obama administration for the exact same issues. There were riots as well under the Obama administration. It's not a political thing. This issue of police brutality has been going on long before any of us were born. It's never gone away. It's just getting more coverage due to social media.

 

 

[GoBills808]

Just now, Bob in STL said:

Most people don’t understand the BLM Marxist connections or how they are funded.  I’m not sure I do either and the media will not cover it.  
 

The basic concept of BLM resonates with well intended people, especially young people, because most of us are not racist and we did not raise our kids to be racist.  
 

However, simply blaming and defunding the front line Joe-Blow policeman for these problems won’t solve it either.   Allowing protests to turn into destructive and dangerous riots, some lasting many months, that too is wrong.  This is were we see a good cause become hijacked by extremists.  
 

What is Marxism?

[Bill Lewes]

55 minutes ago, Putin said:

I wouldn’t run in to a burning building for you either if I was a cop 

Hey, Thanks!

[jkeerie]

3 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

What is Marxism?

In simple terms, a political and economic theory where there are no classes.  Everyone works for the common good.

[NoSaint]

5 minutes ago, Bob in STL said:

Agree that the notion of defunding the police is a very bad message and bad idea.  All of my black friends think this a bad idea too. 
 

Yes, get the bad ones out, that is a must -  but let’s not throw out the baby with the bath water. 
 

How about more training for police?   Most everyone agrees with that idea but training will cost more money, not less. 
 

We can see in some of these cases that the police did not have the training to de-escalate and control some very volatile situations.  In other cases mistakes are being made that could be prevented with more or better training.   Maybe even better selection of police officers to start with? 
 

Defunding will not improve policing, it will help the criminals though.  
 

Too very important jobs In our society are the police and our school teachers and we continually fail to develop them and pay these people what they are worth.  Better training, better pay, and more respect would attract better candidates into these important jobs.  
 

 

 

having less militaristic gear would be cheaper

 

having the police not handle near as broad a scope of issues and turning some of that over to other civic offices would be cheaper policing

 

having police not worry about crimes like weed and prostitution would be cheaper 

[HOUSE]

1 hour ago, Doc Brown said:

This thread will be fun.  Good luck mods.

[Putin]

Just now, Bill Lewes said:

Hey, Thanks!

You are welcome!!

stock up on some water 

[GoBills808]

Just now, jkeerie said:

In simple terms, a political and economic theory where there are no classes.  Everyone works for the common good.

Not really

[Johnnycage46]

2 minutes ago, Putin said:

Socialism is great until the people who pay for it run out of money ,  and then well everyone starves 

Agreed, that's why I personally would not support total socialism.  But there are legitimate instances where people work hard and still need help and I have no problem if my taxes go towards that.

 

As I said, I like mixture of mainly capitalism with select social programs.

 

Anyone who thinks this country is 100% capitalist is just plain wrong.  

[dwight in philly]

6 minutes ago, Johnnycage46 said:

I would say we are primarily a capitalist country.  But with government bail-outs, social programs for low income families, federal financial aid for college we have a mixture.  A true capitalist country would be 100% sink or swim.  Goodbye most farming, auto industry, etc.  

 

I like the mixture.  You can still prosper, but those that truly need the help can get it. 

i suppose it comes down to definition.. and yes your points about social programs , etc.. valid.. but they , the programs you enumerated are based/funded by capitialism 

[Bill Lewes]

53 minutes ago, Putin said:

I’m just saying not all cops are bad and that there’s cops risking their lives every day to save/help people , 

 

 

The conversation isn't about individual cops, it's about the structures that we've used for 400 years to separate people into "valuable" and "not really".   It's about red-lining, and then how cops are trained and missioned to "protect and serve" those neighborhoods.  It's about poverty and disenfranchisement. ...

Of course not all cops are bad -- almost all of them are good -- but they system isn't.

[Bob in STL]

Just now, jkeerie said:

In simple terms, a political and economic theory where there are no classes.  Everyone works for the common good.

Yes and the workers own the means of production.  Everything is distributed equally in theory.  
 

It is the basis for communism and socialism.  

[Putin]

1 minute ago, Johnnycage46 said:

Agreed, that's why I personally would not support total socialism.  But there are legitimate instances where people work hard and still need help and I have no problem if my taxes go towards that.

 

As I said, I like mixture of mainly capitalism with select social programs.

 

Anyone who thinks this country is 100% capitalist is just plain wrong.  

I agree ^^^

[purple haze]

6 minutes ago, Bob in STL said:

Agree that the notion of defunding the police is a very bad message and bad idea.  All of my black friends think this a bad idea too. 
 

Yes, get the bad ones out, that is a must -  but let’s not throw out the baby with the bath water. 
 

How about more training for police?   Most everyone agrees with that idea but training will cost more money, not less. 
 

We can see in some of these cases that the police did not have the training to de-escalate and control some very volatile situations.  In other cases mistakes are being made that could be prevented with more or better training.   Maybe even better selection of police officers to start with? 
 

Defunding will not improve policing, it will help the criminals though.  
 

Too very important jobs In our society are the police and our school teachers and we continually fail to develop them and pay these people what they are worth.  Better training, better pay, and more respect would attract better candidates into these important jobs.  
 

 

Defunding as a message has been diluted because different people have different ideas of what that means.  From my view it ties into your “training” ideas.   Cops are called to deal with issues they might not need to deal with if our country put more money into mental health care facilities and treatment with the personnel that required.  Same regarding support of social workers and family dynamics.   Put more money into those areas and less into militarizing police forces.   All of that money hasn’t necessarily helped police or the public.  I’m not one who wants to abolish police.
 

Better vetting of who becomes police officers is a necessity, especially weeding out those with potential biases.

 

 

[dwight in philly]

6 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

What is Marxism?

communism

[GoBills808]

Just now, dwight in philly said:

communism

wrong