DCofNC Posted September 12, 2020 Posted September 12, 2020 On 9/12/2020 at 5:21 PM, ColoradoBills said: I think the word manipulation is used way too much and it seems to infer some sort of "smoke and mirrors" techniques. The Chiefs have preferred to sign a handful and a half of high dollar players followed by young players on rookie contracts and cheaper players. As of now it is working well but things are going to be tight for them starting next year. As of now they are 14 million in the hole next year with only 34 players signed. It will very tough to resign Sammy Watkins and other UFAs. KC will be one team I want to watch very closely to see how the handle the cap next offseason. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/cap/2021/ Expand The Chiefs are headed down Andy Reid road, he’s done this before and lucky for them they got a championship before his brilliant stupidity hits. He’s going to keep trying to outscore you with a great QBs and lots of speed, defense be damned.
Big Turk Posted September 12, 2020 Posted September 12, 2020 On 9/12/2020 at 5:01 PM, TheElectricCompany said: Remember when the Chiefs had like $180 in cap space, and THEN signed Mahomes, Chris Jones and Travis Kelce? There is an art to manipulating the cap, and many championship contenders are doing it. When we've got to pay our guys, we'll figure it out too. Expand There are always ways to kick the can down the road but eventually you have to pay the piper. Might not be for 6 or 7 years and in some cases ot might make sense to keep kicking it down the road.
TheElectricCompany Posted September 12, 2020 Posted September 12, 2020 On 9/12/2020 at 5:21 PM, ColoradoBills said: I think the word manipulation is used way too much and it seems to infer some sort of "smoke and mirrors" techniques. The Chiefs have preferred to sign a handful and a half of high dollar players followed by young players on rookie contracts and cheaper players. As of now it is working well but things are going to be tight for them starting next year. As of now they are 14 million in the hole next year with only 34 players signed. It will very tough to resign Sammy Watkins and other UFAs. KC will be one team I want to watch very closely to see how the handle the cap next offseason. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/cap/2021/ Expand Good point - manipulation isn't exactly correct. I would say its a mix of 1.) resigning stars 2.) shedding bad deals 3.) restructuring existing contracts and 4.) expecting the cap to continue to rise. The Saints and Eagles are going to be interesting to me. They are $65 million over for 2021, per Overthecap. 1
ChevyVanMiller Posted September 12, 2020 Posted September 12, 2020 Kamara, Cook and Kupp Sounds like a team of personal injury attorneys. 3
ColoradoBills Posted September 12, 2020 Posted September 12, 2020 On 9/12/2020 at 5:23 PM, NoSaint said: a luxury guy in Sammy Watkins will be replaced by mecole hardman as a high pick with a couple years under his belt. Expand Yes and that's how they will have to go forward because of how they prefer to run their cap. I'm not criticizing or praising their choice just pointing out it's how they want to do it. On 9/12/2020 at 5:25 PM, DCofNC said: The Chiefs are headed down Andy Reid road, he’s done this before and lucky for them they got a championship before his brilliant stupidity hits. He’s going to keep trying to outscore you with a great QBs and lots of speed, defense be damned. Expand Yes again and we have seen teams going down this road with varying results before. It's what they are choosing to do because they only have so much resources at their disposal. On 9/12/2020 at 5:25 PM, matter2003 said: There are always ways to kick the can down the road but eventually you have to pay the piper. Might not be for 6 or 7 years and in some cases ot might make sense to keep kicking it down the road. Expand Yes again and again! It works out and is not a huge problem for some teams and for other teams it's disastrous! 2
TheElectricCompany Posted September 12, 2020 Posted September 12, 2020 (edited) On 9/12/2020 at 5:25 PM, DCofNC said: The Chiefs are headed down Andy Reid road, he’s done this before and lucky for them they got a championship before his brilliant stupidity hits. He’s going to keep trying to outscore you with a great QBs and lots of speed, defense be damned. Expand Between Frank Clark, Chris Jones and Mathieu, they've got some big contracts on defense. At the least, their defense is "good enough", and in a few games, much more than that. Edited September 12, 2020 by TheElectricCompany
NoSaint Posted September 12, 2020 Posted September 12, 2020 On 9/12/2020 at 5:34 PM, ColoradoBills said: Yes and that's how they will have to go forward because of how they prefer to run their cap. I'm not criticizing or praising their choice just pointing out it's how they want to do it. Yes again and we have seen teams going down this road with varying results before. It's what they are choosing to do because they only have so much resources at their disposal. Yes again and again! It works out and is not a huge problem for some teams and for other teams it's disastrous! Expand the answer on the split: do you have a franchise qb or did you pay a guy that looked good propped up by an overstocked roster? if you have the qb you will see some updates and downs but generally be in the hunt always and a real contender when you string a few particularly good off seasons together.
YoloinOhio Posted September 12, 2020 Posted September 12, 2020 On 9/12/2020 at 4:30 PM, Kirby Jackson said: Looks like a good day to be a RB. Also, lol at people that think that “cap trouble” is a thing. Expand Owners’ Liquid cash > salary cap 1
ColoradoBills Posted September 12, 2020 Posted September 12, 2020 On 9/12/2020 at 5:30 PM, TheElectricCompany said: Good point - manipulation isn't exactly correct. I would say its a mix of 1.) resigning stars 2.) shedding bad deals 3.) restructuring existing contracts and 4.) expecting the cap to continue to rise. The Saints and Eagles are going to be interesting to me. They are $65 million over for 2021, per Overthecap. Expand First I will say that in a sense "restructuring" is a bit on manipulation but any of us that understand the cap know it comes with risk. As for the bolded another phrase that is overused is "cap hell". Most times this term is way over the top and was used a lot to describe the Bills a few years back which I thought was a hot take. BUT that being said Saints and Eagles are in cap hell next year and it is going to hurt. How they get out of it will definitely be interesting!
DCofNC Posted September 12, 2020 Posted September 12, 2020 On 9/12/2020 at 5:37 PM, TheElectricCompany said: Between Frank Clark, Chris Jones and Mathieu, they've got some big contracts on defense. At the least, their defense is "good enough", and in a few games, much more than that. Expand Yes, he had the benefit of not paying the QB, and took advantage of it, but their D still sucked by and large, it’s going to be worse in the near future.
Doc Brown Posted September 12, 2020 Posted September 12, 2020 It's become pretty clear over the years that you find a RB in the draft and then dump him when he wants his second contract. I'm struggling to remember a Super Bowl winning team that had one of the highest paid running back in the league on their roster. Lynch maybe? Marshall Faulk before him. I'm more on board with the Kamara signing as he's more of a dual weapons threat. Given Cook's injury history the Vikings might regret this contract.
Mr. WEO Posted September 12, 2020 Posted September 12, 2020 On 9/12/2020 at 4:41 PM, IgotBILLStopay said: Happy RBs got the money - it is such an injury prone position yet gets paid the least since the opportunity cost of going to a replacement is low. That said, to be competitive - a team cannot really pay a RB 12-15 mill precisely for the opportunity cost reason. See Rams with Gurley and Jets with Bell. Jury still out on whether Elliott is worth the extension. McCaffrey is probably the single exception to the rule (he IS the face of that franchise now). Expand Paid the least? You just listed 5 guys making 12.5 to 16+ million a year. Kamara and Cook now join them.
TheElectricCompany Posted September 12, 2020 Posted September 12, 2020 On 9/12/2020 at 5:39 PM, ColoradoBills said: First I will say that in a sense "restructuring" is a bit on manipulation but any of us that understand the cap know it comes with risk. As for the bolded another phrase that is overused is "cap hell". Most times this term is way over the top and was used a lot to describe the Bills a few years back which I thought was a hot take. BUT that being said Saints and Eagles are in cap hell next year and it is going to hurt. How they get out of it will definitely be interesting! Expand Bills and Jags are great recent examples of teams that had massive dead cap hits or payrolls, but no sustained success. If you're contending for championships, like the Saints, owners will continue to sign big checks and trust the GM to figure it out. 1
ColoradoBills Posted September 12, 2020 Posted September 12, 2020 On 9/12/2020 at 5:38 PM, NoSaint said: the answer on the split: do you have a franchise qb or did you pay a guy that looked good propped up by an overstocked roster? if you have the qb you will see some updates and downs but generally be in the hunt always and a real contender when you string a few particularly good off seasons together. Expand Which is why teams with one of the few truly "elite" QBs are usually always in it to some degree. The pursuit of one that doesn't pan out can cause your teams to flounder for years. A typical GM only gets a shot or two to do it. Turning this back to the Bills I feel as of now that Beane is showing promise to be a good GM so even if it turned out the Allen could not keep lifting his ceiling and they had to move on Beane should get another swing. That could cause a lot of negative replies but it's what I think.
Nextmanup Posted September 12, 2020 Posted September 12, 2020 Sounds like an accounting auditing firm: KAMARA, COOK, and KUPP CONSULTING, INC. "KCK" for short.
Mr. WEO Posted September 12, 2020 Posted September 12, 2020 On 9/12/2020 at 5:25 PM, DCofNC said: The Chiefs are headed down Andy Reid road, he’s done this before and lucky for them they got a championship before his brilliant stupidity hits. He’s going to keep trying to outscore you with a great QBs and lots of speed, defense be damned. Expand Defense looked pretty good crapping on the second best QB in the league" Thursday night
Doc Posted September 12, 2020 Posted September 12, 2020 On 9/12/2020 at 4:56 PM, Victory Formation said: I think I’d pay a dual threat back top dollar.. but not simply a north south hammer.. if a guy is getting you 1k rushing and 1k receiving i think you pay those kinda backs.. 75-80 receptions on top of 1k rushing is hard to ignore.... Expand Yup. The problem for both is that last year was Cook's first as an ultra-productive dual threat (on-pace for almost 1,900 yards combined if he had played all 16 games) while Kamara's stats have been decreasing annually. I'd have waited. On 9/12/2020 at 5:34 PM, ChevyVanMiller said: Kamara, Cook and Kupp Sounds like a team of personal injury attorneys. Expand My son (19 years old) named his fantasy football team 2 Gurleys, 1 Kupp. I LOL'd. 3
YoloinOhio Posted September 12, 2020 Posted September 12, 2020 On 9/12/2020 at 5:54 PM, Doc said: Yup. The problem for both is that last year was Cook's first as an ultra-productive dual threat (on-pace for almost 1,900 yards combined if he had played all 16 games) while Kamara's stats have been decreasing annually. I'd have waited. My son (19 years old) named his fantasy football team 2 Gurleys, 1 Kupp. I LOL'd. Expand Lol. The team I played against was called The Fresh Prince of Helaire 1
ChevyVanMiller Posted September 12, 2020 Posted September 12, 2020 On 9/12/2020 at 5:54 PM, Doc said: Yup. The problem for both is that last year was Cook's first as an ultra-productive dual threat (on-pace for almost 1,900 yards combined if he had played all 16 games) while Kamara's stats have been decreasing annually. I'd have waited. My son (19 years old) named his fantasy football team 2 Gurleys, 1 Kupp. I LOL'd. Expand Brilliant. (And don't google the video if you've not seen it 🤢)
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