Why are so many ppl saying we need....

[JPL7]

i dont get it!! sure we could probably use some depth, but for God sakes we have a pro bowl calibur player in Adams. and 2 very servicable guys in Ron Edwards and Tim Anderson. And mind you, Anderson was our 3rd round selection last year (or was it 4th?). It is NOT a dire need for us. We need a CB more so. And an o-linemen certainly is a head of DT in order of need. Obviously a lot can go on between now and this weekend. Henry could be traded for a high second(I hope). Clements, who the hell knows whats going on with that?!?! but Kiper, ESPN Insider and all of these other "experts" saying we need a DT first and foremost is ridiculious!!

[The Jokeman]

i dont get it!!  sure we could probably use some depth, but for God sakes we have a pro bowl calibur player in Adams.  and 2 very servicable guys in Ron Edwards and Tim Anderson.  And mind you, Anderson was our 3rd round selection last year (or was it 4th?).  It is NOT a dire need for us.  We need a CB more so.  And an o-linemen certainly is a head of DT in order of need.  Obviously a lot can go on between now and this weekend.  Henry could be traded for a high second(I hope).  Clements, who the hell knows whats going on with that?!?!  but Kiper, ESPN Insider and all of these other "experts" saying we need a DT first and foremost is ridiculious!!

311413[/snapback]

Aside from LT, the Bills truley have no glaring needs and a quality DT could prove to be a best available athlete at pick #55. Let's also not forget that Edwards' contract is up after the 2005 season and moreso Sam Adams is going to be 32 next season.

[Spun]

Protect Losman, spring Willis!

 

Offensive linemen first then defensive linemen.

 

The Bills pass rush only gets so far and then it stalls. To beat NE and Pitt the Bills need upgrades on the lines.

[d_wag]

Aside from LT, the Bills truley have no glaring needs and a quality DT could prove to be a best available athlete at pick #55. Let's also not forget that Edwards' contract is up after the 2005 season and moreso Sam Adams is going to be 32 next season.

311431[/snapback]

 

and TD certainly has a history of drafting players for leverage the year before a current starter's contract is set to expire (ex. tim anderson).........

 

i would love to see ron edwards extended now, before his value increases this year........

[MrLocke]

I have to disagree with you on this one. Defensive tackles are the most important part of your run defense in my opinion because they keep the blocks of the linebackers. Ron Edwards was a starter before and in my opinion he did not cut it. Now one might argue that this was beacsue our defense as a whole was not as good, however I would disagree on the grounds that defensive tackles are so important for stuffing the run. I do not think Edwards can get it done as a starter as much as I would like him to. I just hope the coaching staff knows something we do not know about Anderson as some have sugessted he did not dress because Bannan can also play gaurd and not because he lacked talent. As far as corner I concur and given that it is one of the strongest positions in the draft I see us adding one in part because Nate Clements is a free agent after the season and we will need a back up plan. But I think we are fine with Clements, Mcgee and thomas as was demonstrated last year. However Edwards has only prooven to be a capable back up and not a capable starter.

[Simon]

Why are so many ppl saying we need to use our first selection on a DT??

 

I'm going to go with "It's the most important position on a defense, we just lost our best player at the position, our best remaining player at the position has a lot of miles on him, the guys behind him haven't shown me anything yet and there is going to be some very good value at the position in that part of the 2nd round".

Cya

[AKC]

i dont get it!!  sure we could probably use some depth, but for God sakes we have a pro bowl calibur player in Adams.  and 2 very servicable guys in Ron Edwards and Tim Anderson.  And mind you, Anderson was our 3rd round selection last year (or was it 4th?).  It is NOT a dire need for us.  We need a CB more so.  And an o-linemen certainly is a head of DT in order of need.  Obviously a lot can go on between now and this weekend.  Henry could be traded for a high second(I hope).  Clements, who the hell knows whats going on with that?!?!  but Kiper, ESPN Insider and all of these other "experts" saying we need a DT first and foremost is ridiculious!!

311413[/snapback]

 

Those "Experts" are merely paying attention to the realities of the game today that requires more talent at DT than ever before in the history of the game. They're paying attention to the fact that the better GMs around the league, guys like Scott Paoli, are drafting DTs with their first round picks in consecutive drafts EVEN THOUGH HIS TEAM PLAYS A 3-4. They're paying attention to the fact that Ron Edwards is a poor tackler. They're paying attention to the fact that the while the media and fans promote the foolish notion that the Quarterback is "the most important position on a football team", the simple reality is that in very few cases on very few teams is that true. And if it's true that your QB is "the most important player" on your team, your team is in big trouble!

[dave mcbride]

Those "Experts" are merely paying attention to the realities of the game today that requires more talent at DT than ever before in the history of the game. They're paying attention to the fact that the better GMs around the league, guys like Scott Paoli, are drafting DTs with their first round picks in consecutive drafts EVEN THOUGH HIS TEAM PLAYS A 3-4. They're paying attention to the fact that Ron Edwards is a poor tackler. They're paying attention to the fact that the while the media and fans promote the foolish notion that the Quarterback is "the most important position on a football team", the simple reality is that in very few cases on very few teams is that true. And if it's true that your QB is "the most important player" on your team, your team is in big trouble!

311451[/snapback]

 

excellent points. a good defense is built around the front seven and at least serviceable CBs. The DTs not only crucial for the level of line play, but key to the play of the LBs. And as we know, it's defense that's most likely to get you into the playoffs ...

[dave mcbride]

Those "Experts" are merely paying attention to the realities of the game today that requires more talent at DT than ever before in the history of the game. They're paying attention to the fact that the better GMs around the league, guys like Scott Paoli, are drafting DTs with their first round picks in consecutive drafts EVEN THOUGH HIS TEAM PLAYS A 3-4. They're paying attention to the fact that Ron Edwards is a poor tackler. They're paying attention to the fact that the while the media and fans promote the foolish notion that the Quarterback is "the most important position on a football team", the simple reality is that in very few cases on very few teams is that true. And if it's true that your QB is "the most important player" on your team, your team is in big trouble!

311451[/snapback]

 

excellent points. a good defense is built around the front seven and at least serviceable CBs. The DTs not only crucial for the level of line play, but key to the play of the LBs. And as we know, it's defense that's most likely to get you into the playoffs ...

[MrLocke]

Those "Experts" are merely paying attention to the realities of the game today that requires more talent at DT than ever before in the history of the game. They're paying attention to the fact that the better GMs around the league, guys like Scott Paoli, are drafting DTs with their first round picks in consecutive drafts EVEN THOUGH HIS TEAM PLAYS A 3-4. They're paying attention to the fact that Ron Edwards is a poor tackler. They're paying attention to the fact that the while the media and fans promote the foolish notion that the Quarterback is "the most important position on a football team", the simple reality is that in very few cases on very few teams is that true. And if it's true that your QB is "the most important player" on your team, your team is in big trouble!

311451[/snapback]

 

 

You hit the nail on the head. I hate to think it but imagine our run defense if Sam Adams goes down. I have visions of Greggo's first season here.

[The Jokeman]

I have to disagree with you on this one. Defensive tackles are the most important part of your run defense in my opinion because they keep the blocks of the linebackers. Ron Edwards was a starter before and in my opinion he did not cut it. Now one might argue that this was beacsue our defense as a whole was not as good, however I would disagree on the grounds that defensive tackles are so important for stuffing the run. I do not think Edwards can get it done as a starter as much as I would like him to. I just hope the coaching staff knows something we do not know about Anderson as some have sugessted he did not dress because Bannan can also play gaurd and not because he lacked talent. As far as corner I concur and given that it is one of the strongest positions in the draft I see us adding one in part because Nate Clements is a free agent after the season and we will need a back up plan. But I think we are fine with Clements, Mcgee and thomas as was demonstrated last year. However Edwards has only prooven to be a capable back up and not a capable starter.

311443[/snapback]

According to his NFL Players Bio 2002: he started every game at the LDT position and collected 68 tackles (40 solo), 2.5 sacks, 3 forced fumbles, 1 fumble recovery and 20 QB pressures; also scored first career TD on fumble recovery in end zone at Min. (9/15). Yes, he struggled bue as you mentioned the surrounding cast wasn't much better.

 

If you ask me that was a pretty good year for a 2nd year player.

[Kelly the Dog]

and TD certainly has a history of drafting players for leverage the year before a current starter's contract is set to expire (ex. tim anderson).........

 

i would love to see ron edwards extended now, before his value increases this year........

311442[/snapback]

So now you're on a relentless campaign to resign all our crappy players before their contracts are up too?

 

Just kidding. Edwards isn't crappy, but he is just as likely to tank as a starter as excel. He has most of half a game down pat after three years, and basically gets pushed around at the other 60-70%. His sacks last year, while excellent plays and showing a fine burst and knack in the passing game, clouds people's eyes IMO over the fact that he still gets regularly pushed around in the running game. I'm hoping it finally comes together for him, and he still has a chance to be good, but I would not lock him up to any contract of any significance now. Just an opinion on him.

[dave mcbride]

According to his NFL Players Bio the year in which he started all 16 games was 2002 in which he started every game at the LDT position and collected 68 tackles (40 solo), 2.5 sacks, 3 forced fumbles, 1 fumble recovery and 20 QB pressures; also scored first career TD on fumble recovery in end zone at Min. (9/15).

 

If you ask me that was a pretty good year for a 2nd year player.

311461[/snapback]

with all due respect, i watched edwards in 02, and i thought he was horrible. ricky williams running wild comes to mind ...

[MrLocke]

According to his NFL Players Bio the year in which he started all 16 games was 2002 in which he started every game at the LDT position and collected 68 tackles (40 solo), 2.5 sacks, 3 forced fumbles, 1 fumble recovery and 20 QB pressures; also scored first career TD on fumble recovery in end zone at Min. (9/15).

 

If you ask me that was a pretty good year for a 2nd year player.

311461[/snapback]

 

Yes those may be good statistics I will grant you that. But our run defense that year was near the bottom around 26th or so if I recall correctly. Also if he was so good that year why did we need to bother signing Sam Adams?

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

I'm going to go with "It's the most important position on a defense, we just lost our best player at the position, our best remaining player at the position has a lot of miles on him, the guys behind him haven't shown me anything yet and there is going to be some very good value at the position in that part of the 2nd round".

Cya

311444[/snapback]

 

I certsinly agree with you Simon and a poster above that as hopeful as i am about the DT situation, I was impressed that Edwards showed a lot of improvement (finally) as a sub last year, but he was so disappointing as a rookie and he failed to step up in his second year (unlike Denney who also was a rookie wipe out but definitely showed signs of improvement his second year and allowed us to go with only DEs last year unlike the five DTs we needed to man and have prospects at that position) that he remains to prove himself as anywhere near being an adequate replacement for the good work that Phat Pat did for the Bills.

 

I have enough doubts about Edwards and Anderson that I can easily see the DT interest and wonder whether the Bannan shift to OG is merited or prudent. The main reason for my hope is that actually I think you exaggerate in the importance you acribe to PW. He was a very good player for the Bills, but the fact is that he only played 60% or so of the D downs last season which means not only did we rely on other roster players more than a third of the time (giving them real work) but it shows that we can do without PW and still perform under the right cuircumstances.

 

The outstanidng questions to me are whether we will miss the twin bulk (and actuall greater speed and better play of Adams) on the intial downs or whether Adams will miss his buddy PW which I'm sure played a role in him playing harder than he ever played before and we in essence will be missing two DT talents that made our D formidable last year.

[AKC]

According to his NFL Players Bio the year in which he started all 16 games was 2002 in which he started every game at the LDT position and collected 68 tackles (40 solo), 2.5 sacks, 3 forced fumbles, 1 fumble recovery and 20 QB pressures; also scored first career TD on fumble recovery in end zone at Min. (9/15).

 

If you ask me that was a pretty good year for a 2nd year player.

311461[/snapback]

 

It's odd they've got those numbers listed on NFL PLayers.com and the BB website, according to Stats.com in 2002 he had 25 solo and 15 assisted tackles. The Stats.com numbers are a lot more reminiscent of the season I remember from him in '02. Like KTD says, he's got excellent feet in pass rushing for a guy his size but he's a full on liability in run defense, which is why he was not included in any of our run packages last season. Imagining him all of a sudden in '05 developing sticky hands in the run game seems "unlikely" to me.

[MrLocke]

Also a DT can be very effective without putting up high tackle and sack numbers simply because they keep offensive linemen of the linebackers.

[The Jokeman]

It's odd they've got those numbers listed on NFL PLayers.com and the BB website, according to Stats.com in 2002 he had 25 solo and 15 assisted tackles.

311485[/snapback]

Well tackles are an unofficial stat, so that could be the discrepancy.

 

To answer the responses that Edwards was bad in 2002, let's not forget it was his 2nd season in the NFL and first year as a starter. Not to mention our LB core of Newman, Fletcher and Robinson a far cry as to what it is now.

 

Am I saying that he's a better player then Sam Adams or Pat Williams? heck no but still think Edwards a little better then most give him credit for and expect our run defense to drop a few notches but don't think it will go to one of the NFL's best to one of the league's worst just because we don't have "Phat Pat" anymore. I even stated I wouldn't be against taking a DT if he were the BAA. I've even said in other threads that would welcome us to take a guy like Ronald Fields (a run stopping DT) in the later rounds only because think a rotation of Adams, Edwards and Anderson is a good base three to work with.

[AKC]

Well tackles are an unofficial stat, so that could be the discrepancy.

 

To answer the responses that Edwards was bad in 2002, let's not forget it was his 2nd season in the NFL and first year as a starter. Not to mention our LB core of Newman, Fletcher and Robinson a far cry as to what it is now.

 

Am I saying that he's a better player then Sam Adams, heck no but still think Edwards a little better then most give him credit for.

311495[/snapback]

 

I'd agree that he's a roster asset, at least as Krumrie has him playing right now, but the asset is exclusive to nickel and dime package play. If he's the team's answer on 1st and 2nd downs I fear for the good health of London Fletcher!

[BuffOrange]

i dont get it!!  sure we could probably use some depth, but for God sakes we have a pro bowl calibur player in Adams.  and 2 very servicable guys in Ron Edwards and Tim Anderson.  And mind you, Anderson was our 3rd round selection last year (or was it 4th?).  It is NOT a dire need for us.  We need a CB more so.  And an o-linemen certainly is a head of DT in order of need.  Obviously a lot can go on between now and this weekend.  Henry could be traded for a high second(I hope).  Clements, who the hell knows whats going on with that?!?!  but Kiper, ESPN Insider and all of these other "experts" saying we need a DT first and foremost is ridiculious!!

311413[/snapback]

 

I agree with you. If you have faith in TD finding a good DT, then why do you want to draft one in the 2nd round a year after you got one in the 3rd round? Are they going to find anybody who grades that much better than Anderson in this "weak" draft?

I do agree with MrLocke that DT is an important position; but we need DE and OL just as badly if not worse. Also, Edwards has definitely improved since that admittedly bad '02 season. I say take the best available player left in the trenches.