ComradeKayAdams Posted September 12, 2020 Posted September 12, 2020 On 9/9/2020 at 7:31 AM, TakeYouToTasker said: https://twitter.com/i/events/1303636971688873984?s=21 Trump winning the Nobel Peace Prize would be the best thing to happen to our country! The inevitable meltdown on the political left is sorely needed because Democrats need to come to grips with their hypocrisy in defending Obama’s largely disgraceful foreign policy record. Maybe something as absurd as this would be the catalyst for a total paradigm shift in American post-Cold War foreign policy. Our country deserves a political party that is genuinely dovish, favors multilateral diplomacy over heavy-handed unilateral ones, doesn’t take a hardline stance in support of sanctions and embargos, is willing to restrain the military-industrial complex, and is completely against all forms of regime change (full invasions AND sponsored coups). That political party needs to be on the left. I hope you find the time later to reply in your thread, TYTT. An anarcho-capitalist (or minarcho-capitalist?) perspective would be welcome here. On 9/9/2020 at 8:25 AM, Buffalo_Gal said: He deserves it. I doubt he will receive it, but with the administration’s foreign policy successes, especially in the Middle East, there is no doubt that the world is a safer place today than it was four years ago. No modern era American president deserves it. Not even Jimmy Carter. The Nobel Peace Prize should be reserved for individuals whose actions are motivated almost entirely by desires for peace and for protections of human rights. American foreign policy is mostly about controlling oil, gaining access to mineral resources, preserving international trade hegemony, increasing MIC profits, and (allegedly) improving national security. Anyone who earnestly disagrees with this statement has been indoctrinated with too much American moral exceptionalism propaganda. I could locate a bunch of places around the world where a limited American military presence might conceivably enhance peace and preserve human rights (hint: many of them are in Africa), but our presidents and military leaders choose not to intervene because there’s no benefit for the reasons listed above. Also, there is absolutely doubt that the world is safer now than 4 years ago!!! I doubt it, over half of America doubts it, most of Europe and the UN doubts it, and the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists (who control the Doomsday Clock) doubt it. Why? Well let’s take the singular issue of Iran. Trump has taken a dangerously aggressive and provocative stance on this country. We don’t know how the complex Middle East political landscape will fully play out in time as a result of withdrawing from JCPOA (which was essentially the only thing about the Obama tenure that I liked…that and Cuba relations), but we do know that Iran will effectively never trust the United States again and that this greatly limits future diplomatic options (killing Soleimani also didn’t help). Trump has done nothing to fix the problem after two years, instead opting for hard sanctions that have badly hurt the Iranian people (not very peaceful and humane…). On 9/10/2020 at 2:11 AM, Doc Brown said: Yeah he has. Yep, sadly. Trump is outpacing Obama’s drone war efforts by over 4 times the number of strikes, though I don’t know in which countries they are occurring. I do know that the cumulative US drone war program has taken place in 7 countries (Somalia, Libya, Yemen, Syria, Iraq, Pakistan, and Afghanistan) since its inauguration under Bush #43. What’s most alarming is that Trump has removed all mandatory disclosure rules for civilian casualty reports that were put in place during the Obama era. He has given himself carte blanche over an anti-terrorism program without any quality control over blowback effects. As I hope we all know, unaccountable drone warfare is so dangerous because it entices our presidents to recklessly magnify their anti-terrorism “tough guy” roles without having to face any public criticism since it’s not putting American troops in danger. Trump is too myopic and narcissistic to think about the long-term repercussions of this program on American security. For every terrorist a drone kills, how many more are we breeding from the collateral damage? I’m super disappointed in all of our politicians (even Tulsi Gabbard…insert cry emoji) and all of America for rarely questioning the morality or the long-term strategic sense of these drone strikes. On 9/10/2020 at 11:34 AM, Deranged Rhino said: No new war -- first president in 39 years who can say that. Historic peace deals with: Israel/UAE/KSA(soon) + more Cooled tensions with DPRK when war was imminent, all but officially ended the longest American War in history Destroyed ISIS without invading a sovereign nation or a troop "surge". Brought the Syrian war to a heel by working with international partners rather than by funding AQ which was the last administration's strategy Severely curtailed both Hezbollah and Hamas's financial networks and reach. ...And that's just off the top of my head and just in his first term. These are not sufficient reasons to justify Trump winning the award, unless we’re making a comparative analysis with the foreign policy of a previous winner (Obama, 2009). Many of these commonly touted successes are a bit exaggerated and also a bit premature in their declared victories. Let us address each point, one by one, shall we? Yes we shall: 1. No new wars: yes, I’m relieved and thankful that Trump has not treated our military personnel like pawns in stupid regime change wars. But not being a neocon is such a low standard! I just can’t get over the Venezuelan coup efforts, the drone strikes, or the Soleimani assassination that could have easily sparked a world war over a couple misunderstandings. 2. North Korea: I take no issue whatsoever with Trump’s open diplomacy with Kim Jong Un, but I don’t feel it has moved the needle much toward either freedom for DPRK’s citizens or toward nuclear warfare. 3. Ending the War in Afghanistan: I’ll believe it when I finally see it! It’s so depressing that I have no real memory of a time when our troops weren’t there. Trump has had 4 years to fully withdraw troops like he promised and still hasn’t done so. According to Trump, it’ll happen soon after we re-elect him. How convenient. 4. Israel-UAE Deal: more peace in the Middle East is always a good thing, but the deal does nothing to address the fundamental issue of Palestine which continues to plague all diplomatic relationships throughout the region. The same goes for the efforts to dismantle Hezbollah and Hamas. Any US president unwilling to hold Israel to the high ethical standards that we should have for all Western democracies and who doesn’t apply the necessary financial and diplomatic pressures to coax Israel toward these standards is only operating along the periphery of long-term Middle East peace. No one can even begin to change the hearts and minds of Middle Eastern Muslims until our vassal state of Israel addresses human rights and political freedoms for Palestinians. 5. War on Terror: similar problem as above. Dismantling ISIS and Al-Qaeda in Syria and elsewhere are fine, but the underlying problem of radical Islamic terrorism isn’t being addressed. Negligible pressure is being applied on our ally, Saudi Arabia, for their predominant role in breeding terrorism. The large presence of US troops throughout Islamic lands is a major source of Muslim discontent and wouldn’t be even remotely tolerated if the situations were reversed. And once again, I must insist that drone strikes killing innocent civilians isn’t helping. 1 1
snafu Posted September 12, 2020 Posted September 12, 2020 16 minutes ago, RealKayAdams said: Trump winning the Nobel Peace Prize would be the best thing to happen to our country! The inevitable meltdown on the political left is sorely needed because Democrats need to come to grips with their hypocrisy in defending Obama’s largely disgraceful foreign policy record. Maybe something as absurd as this would be the catalyst for a total paradigm shift in American post-Cold War foreign policy. Our country deserves a political party that is genuinely dovish, favors multilateral diplomacy over heavy-handed unilateral ones, doesn’t take a hardline stance in support of sanctions and embargos, is willing to restrain the military-industrial complex, and is completely against all forms of regime change (full invasions AND sponsored coups). That political party needs to be on the left. Those policies should be universal, not party-affiliated. Though I’d tweak one or two. Multilateral diplomacy is nice, but not always necessary while we are still economy #1. Sometimes sanctions and embargoes are the only alternative to force of arms — and they eventually work — though in the long-term, we use them for regime change (which is what our Iran policy is). Quote I hope you find the time later to reply in your thread, TYTT. An anarcho-capitalist (or minarcho-capitalist?) perspective would be welcome here. No modern era American president deserves it. Not even Jimmy Carter. The Nobel Peace Prize should be reserved for individuals whose actions are motivated almost entirely by desires for peace and for protections of human rights. American foreign policy is mostly about controlling oil, gaining access to mineral resources, preserving international trade hegemony, increasing MIC profits, and (allegedly) improving national security. Anyone who earnestly disagrees with this statement has been indoctrinated with too much American moral exceptionalism propaganda. I could locate a bunch of places around the world where a limited American military presence might conceivably enhance peace and preserve human rights (hint: many of them are in Africa), but our presidents and military leaders choose not to intervene because there’s no benefit for the reasons listed above. I was thinking 5G when I read this. Couldn’t let Huaewi get ahead of our rollout. The fact that Huawei uses their technology as info-gathering tools for the ChiComs to better develop their AI capabilities was a great pretext. Quote Also, there is absolutely doubt that the world is safer now than 4 years ago!!! I doubt it, over half of America doubts it, most of Europe and the UN doubts it, and the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists (who control the Doomsday Clock) doubt it. Why? Well let’s take the singular issue of Iran. Trump has taken a dangerously aggressive and provocative stance on this country. We don’t know how the complex Middle East political landscape will fully play out in time as a result of withdrawing from JCPOA (which was essentially the only thing about the Obama tenure that I liked…that and Cuba relations), but we do know that Iran will effectively never trust the United States again and that this greatly limits future diplomatic options (killing Soleimani also didn’t help). Trump has done nothing to fix the problem after two years, instead opting for hard sanctions that have badly hurt the Iranian people (not very peaceful and humane…). The world world is always a dangerous place and the Iran deal allowed that country to flex their influence in the region almost immediately. Getting out of that agreement was the right thing to do. I believe that Trump’s treatment of Iran is one of his only neocon policies. All his actions show that he’s pressurizing the Ayatollahs and hoping that they’re deposed from within. I’m not a big fan of forcing regime change, but ask the average Yemeni, or Syrian, or Lebanese citizen what he or she really thinks of Iranian interference in their respective countries. Quote Yep, sadly. Trump is outpacing Obama’s drone war efforts by over 4 times the number of strikes, though I don’t know in which countries they are occurring. I do know that the cumulative US drone war program has taken place in 7 countries (Somalia, Libya, Yemen, Syria, Iraq, Pakistan, and Afghanistan) since its inauguration under Bush #43. What’s most alarming is that Trump has removed all mandatory disclosure rules for civilian casualty reports that were put in place during the Obama era. He has given himself carte blanche over an anti-terrorism program without any quality control over blowback effects. As I hope we all know, unaccountable drone warfare is so dangerous because it entices our presidents to recklessly magnify their anti-terrorism “tough guy” roles without having to face any public criticism since it’s not putting American troops in danger. Trump is too myopic and narcissistic to think about the long-term repercussions of this program on American security. For every terrorist a drone kills, how many more are we breeding from the collateral damage? I’m super disappointed in all of our politicians (even Tulsi Gabbard…insert cry emoji) and all of America for rarely questioning the morality or the long-term strategic sense of these drone strikes. I’ve got nothing to offer on this subject whatsoever. Quote These are not sufficient reasons to justify Trump winning the award, unless we’re making a comparative analysis with the foreign policy of a previous winner (Obama, 2009). Many of these commonly touted successes are a bit exaggerated and also a bit premature in their declared victories. Let us address each point, one by one, shall we? Yes we shall: 1. No new wars: yes, I’m relieved and thankful that Trump has not treated our military personnel like pawns in stupid regime change wars. But not being a neocon is such a low standard! I just can’t get over the Venezuelan coup efforts, the drone strikes, or the Soleimani assassination that could have easily sparked a world war over a couple misunderstandings. Venezuela is yet another country tightly tied to Iran’s influence. The Russians and Chinese are influential there, too. Venezuela is also a menace to its neighbors, and the only coup attempt I know of was some half-ass privateer looking for glory. I don’t know that the administration was involved. Soleimani’s killing wasn’t going to spark a world war. Iran is in a bad position. There will be blowback some day from an Iranian sponsored terrorist attack is more likely. Quote 2. North Korea: I take no issue whatsoever with Trump’s open diplomacy with Kim Jong Un, but I don’t feel it has moved the needle much toward either freedom for DPRK’s citizens or toward nuclear warfare. 3. Ending the War in Afghanistan: I’ll believe it when I finally see it! It’s so depressing that I have no real memory of a time when our troops weren’t there. Trump has had 4 years to fully withdraw troops like he promised and still hasn’t done so. According to Trump, it’ll happen soon after we re-elect him. How convenient. Have you read the three page memorandum of agreement between us and the Taliban? We’ve given them everything and we are pulling up stakes. Sooner than later. Quote 4. Israel-UAE Deal: more peace in the Middle East is always a good thing, but the deal does nothing to address the fundamental issue of Palestine which continues to plague all diplomatic relationships throughout the region. The same goes for the efforts to dismantle Hezbollah and Hamas. Any US president unwilling to hold Israel to the high ethical standards that we should have for all Western democracies and who doesn’t apply the necessary financial and diplomatic pressures to coax Israel toward these standards is only operating along the periphery of long-term Middle East peace. No one can even begin to change the hearts and minds of Middle Eastern Muslims until our vassal state of Israel addresses human rights and political freedoms for Palestinians. I see see these deals as isolating the Palestinians into finally agreeing to a 2state solution. The more Arab nations that sign on now, the more likely they will need to get on board. This is a helpful part of getting the “plan of the century” put in place. You’re right that the Israelis need to do their part. So far, their words say that they will. If the Israelis don’t go along, then you’re right about financial and diplomatic pressure. To me, the Palestinians need to get on board first. Quote 5. War on Terror: similar problem as above. Dismantling ISIS and Al-Qaeda in Syria and elsewhere are fine, but the underlying problem of radical Islamic terrorism isn’t being addressed. Negligible pressure is being applied on our ally, Saudi Arabia, for their predominant role in breeding terrorism. The large presence of US troops throughout Islamic lands is a major source of Muslim discontent and wouldn’t be even remotely tolerated if the situations were reversed. And once again, I must insist that drone strikes killing innocent civilians isn’t helping. I’m not up on what our efforts are vis a vis pressurizing SA. At least on the face of it, we are reducing our troop presence in the region. That can’t be a bad thing. 3
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted September 13, 2020 Posted September 13, 2020 21 hours ago, B-Man said: NOT THE BABYLON BEE: The Atlantic Attempts to Cancel the Nobel Peace Prize Because Trump Has Been Nominated. UPDATE (FROM GLENN): “Imagine believing your feelings are more important than world peace.” ...and the Dems wanted to eliminate the Electoral College because the bulbous pant suit lost......a pattern here???...... 1 1
BillStime Posted September 15, 2020 Posted September 15, 2020 Yea - Qrump calling the media the enemy of the people certainly scream peace. Fox & Friends hosts look visibly uncomfortable when Trump calls the media the ‘enemy of the people’ 👆They know it’s only a matter of time before Trump calls them ‘enemy of the people’’
BillStime Posted September 18, 2020 Posted September 18, 2020 F’in laughable - Trump deserves a peace prize? You f’n nuts?
Doc Posted September 18, 2020 Posted September 18, 2020 When the bar has been set so low after Barry got a Nobel as a participation trophy, everyone should get one.
B-Man Posted September 18, 2020 Posted September 18, 2020 1 hour ago, BillStime said: Still pushing the Lincoln Project bilge-water
SydneyBillsFan Posted September 18, 2020 Posted September 18, 2020 Watching his speech in Mosinee, this is vintage Trump at the top of his game. He will obliterate Biden in the debates - if he ever leaves his basement. GOD BLESS THE LEADER OF THE FREE WORLD - DONALD TRUMP!! 🇺🇸 3
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted September 18, 2020 Posted September 18, 2020 ...this just in...Nancy is the imminent nominee for the Nobel POS Prize......care to differ??...........
Doc Posted September 19, 2020 Posted September 19, 2020 She should be nominated for the Ignobel POS Prize.
fansince88 Posted September 19, 2020 Posted September 19, 2020 22 hours ago, SydneyBillsFan said: Watching his speech in Mosinee, this is vintage Trump at the top of his game. He will obliterate Biden in the debates - if he ever leaves his basement. GOD BLESS THE LEADER OF THE FREE WORLD - DONALD TRUMP!! 🇺🇸 He is so entertaining.
Buffalo_Gal Posted September 28, 2020 Posted September 28, 2020 Another day, another peace prize nomination for Trump: The ‘Trump Doctrine’ earns President third Nobel Peace Prize nomination Eminent law professor David Flint is among four Australian law professors who are nominating US President Donald Trump for the Nobel Peace Prize on the basis of the “Trump Doctrine”. </snip> 1 3
B-Man Posted September 28, 2020 Posted September 28, 2020 SMART DIPLOMACY: The ‘Trump Doctrine’ earns President third Nobel Peace Prize nomination. Eminent law professor David Flint is among four Australian law professors who are nominating US President Donald Trump for the Nobel Peace Prize on the basis of the “Trump Doctrine”. Only members of a national parliament or law professors are able to nominate others for the Nobel Peace Prize with President Trump already receiving two nominations for his promotion of peace in the Middle-East. President Trump recently brokered an historic peace deal between the United Arab Emirates and Israel, which aimed to normalise diplomatic relations. This unprecedented deal was closely followed by a similar peace agreement between Bahrain and Israel. “He went ahaead and negotiated against all advice, but he did it with common sense. He negotiated directly with the Arab states concerned and Israel and brought them together,” Professor Flint said. Professor Flint told Sky News host Alan Jones the Trump Doctrine is “something extraordinary” and is emblematic of the two things which guide the president. “He has, firstly, common sense, and he is only guided by national interest … and therefore an interest in the western alliance” he said. “What he has done with the Trump Doctrine is that he has decided he would no longer have America in endless wars, wars which achieve nothing but the killing of thousands of young Americans. “So he’s reducing America’s tendency to get involved in any and every war. “The states are lining up, Arab and Middle-Eastern, to join that network of peace which will dominate the Middle-East. “He is really producing peace in the world in a way in a which none of his predecessors did, and he fully deserves the Nobel Peace Prize.” Indeed. 2
Recommended Posts