PPP Under Fire

[Q-baby!]

On 9/4/2020 at 3:53 PM, Deranged Rhino said:

 

I don't want to do it, but would because I'm here enough. I'd love to see some others do it, but I have a feeling they wouldn't want the job (thinking of Buffalo Gal, Doc Brown, Azalin, KRC, and a few others). 

😂😂😂 There it is! The real reason for the LAMP. Pick me! Pick me! 😂😂😂😂

 

Sure, make on of the nutbars the boss of the asylum. Makes sense. 

[Buffalo_Gal]

2 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

Professional athletes -- even Black athletes -- have lives outside of sports just like you have a life outside of your job or career.    They are all American citizens or legal residents which means that they have the right to express themselves just like "regular" -- ie, non-athlete -- American residents.  They aren't enslaved gladiators who have to perform in the Coliseum for the Roman masses or die.

 

 

ROTFLMAO!!!  "PPP and forums like it are a threat to all who would love to be able suppress free speech, liberty and viewpoints that differ from their own" but you put posters you disagree with on IGNORE.   That's really supporting free speech.

 

 

That works for me ... if the Righties around here support to change the US Constitution to have the popular vote determine who is elected POTUS.

 

1. I do not care what the athletes say/do on their own time, provided it is legal. 

Can you "protest" while working at your job? Could you force your employer to allow you to "protest" on the job?  Or, should  your job be a place of work and dedication to that job when on  the company's dime?

The NFL has spent decades trying to build themselves as pro-American with the armed forces, singling the National Anthem, etc. They have not allowed anything on uniforms that was individualized - heck, they would not allow the  Dallas Cowboys to put decals supporting 5 fallen police officers on their helmets. Brandon Marshall could not support mental health issues. DeAngelo Williams could not wear pink all season in honor of his mother who died of breast cancer, and was told no (and this is with the NFL having a pink-month!)  Now, suddenly,  "protesting" on company time is a-ok?  The ratings should be interesting.

2. Feel free to rationally, reasonably, and unemotionally express your viewpoints. 

3. The framers of the Constitution were pretty smart guys. You are never going to see a popular-vote election.

 

Edited September 6, 2020 by Buffalo_Gal

[IDBillzFan]

2 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

Professional athletes -- even Black athletes -- have lives outside of sports just like you have a life outside of your job or career.    They are all American citizens or legal residents which means that they have the right to express themselves just like "regular" -- ie, non-athlete -- American residents.  They aren't enslaved gladiators who have to perform in the Coliseum for the Roman masses or die.

 

Agreed.  Notice that I wrote that we don't need these people to feed us the stuff they have the right to express. I never said they shouldn't. They are welcome to do so, as we are welcome to respond accordingly. My hope is they realize that most Americans simply don't want to hear it/see it during the games.

 

The good news where the NFL is concerned is that the social justice stuff doesn't happen during the game other than a helmet sticker I can barely see. So DVR wipes out the stupid schitt for me. The field isn't covered in BLM Marxist/destroy the nuclear family crap like the NBA.

 

The smart play, honestly, are the custom shoes NFL players get to wear to support their personal cause. Let that continue to be the way the players can individually promote their causes, instead of forcing us with the singular issue of the day that is not near as popular as the media would have you believe.

[fansince88]

On 9/5/2020 at 9:20 AM, SectionC3 said:

“Parade of fools?”  Who might they be?  People who don’t share your worldview?  
 

and inciting anger?  With what, exactly?  A competing viewpoint?  Maybe the solution to your problems is to have an open mind. 

I consider them not  those that disagree with my point of view but more so those that disagree by putting up a dumb Trump meme and bringing zero substance to the conversation.  I can debate with you all day long. Let's just bring substance and proof to our conversation. 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

12 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

1. I do not care what the athletes say/do on their own time, provided it is legal. 

Can you "protest" while working at your job? Could you force your employer to allow you to "protest" on the job?  Or, should  your job be a place of work and dedication to that job when on  the company's dime?

The NFL has spent decades trying to build themselves as pro-American with the armed forces, singling the National Anthem, etc. They have not allowed anything on uniforms that was individualized - heck, they would not allow the  Dallas Cowboys to put decals supporting 5 fallen police officers on their helmets. Brandon Marshall could not support mental health issues. DeAngelo Williams could not wear pink all season in honor of his mother who died of breast cancer, and was told no (and this is with the NFL having a pink-month!)  Now, suddenly,  "protesting" on company time is a-ok?  The ratings should be interesting.

2. Feel free to rationally, reasonably, and unemotionally express your viewpoints. 

3. The framers of the Constitution were pretty smart guys. You are never going to see a popular-vote election. There is no reason for ballots harvested in California to count more than in-person votes made in South Dakota. 

 

So, BG, this is an interesting point.  I’m glad you brought it up.
 

I have long felt CK was a poser of sorts, but be that as it may, one of my major issues was the “protest at work” issue.  Well, that and the relative irony of protesting in a tightly controlled environment guarded by those you are protesting against where only the entitled and elite were able to tread, on a surface made of fake grass that costs millions of dollars to produce  perhaps in some cases by people making minimum wage (all sponsored by AT&T).  
 

So, you go to work, you follow reasonable rules set in place by your employer, supersized as you pointed out to STAMP OUT individual displays of love, respect or gratitude by employees in spite of the things that are important to them. 
 

Phase 2 is upon us.  As it turns out, the employer has changed the rules to a certain extent, allowing now whatever it is that they will allow, in whatever manner they allow it.  This is where the consumer has a choice to make, and it becomes less about the employee and much more about the employer. 
 

From my perspective, the enterprise (NFL) is really just following the money.  That isn’t a bad thing, and certainly good things can flow from that sort of thing.  I thought the $90m dedicated to social causes was a good thing, just as supporting breast cancer awareness was/is.   It remains to be seen what that will look like on game day now and in the future.   

[Buffalo_Gal]

2 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

From my perspective, the enterprise (NFL) is really just following the money.  That isn’t a bad thing, and certainly good things can flow from that sort of thing.  I thought the $90m dedicated to social causes was a good thing, just as supporting breast cancer awareness was/is.   It remains to be seen what that will look like on game day now and in the future.   

That is why I said the rating should be interesting. Are they following the money? Time will tell. If the ratings are up, they followed the money. If the ratings go down (down significantly), they blew it.   We shall see.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

...a thread to try and restore some decorum (societally GONE) and valuable discourse has attracted the PPP "fruit flies" as expected.......where art thou Orkin Man??.........

Edited September 6, 2020 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

That is why I said the rating should be interesting. Are they following the money? Time will tell. If the ratings are up, they followed the money. If the ratings go down (down significantly), they blew it.   We shall see.

I used to love going to the movies.  My wife and I would enjoy the break, the escape and the popcorn.  Now, it’s a bit less enjoyable as I contemplate which actors/directors  I choose to support and those I prefer not to.   At the same time, we haven’t reached the point where the screen has a perpetual crawl along the bottom of it reminding me of all the trouble in the world, or that the fake butter and artificial sweetener in my snacks is killing me dead as I sit there.

 

Balance is fine.  Messaging is no different than the product placement for sponsors within reason.   We’ll see. 

[realtruelove]

3 hours ago, SoTier said:

ROTFLMAO!!!  "PPP and forums like it are a threat to all who would love to be able suppress free speech, liberty and viewpoints that differ from their own" but you put posters you disagree with on IGNORE.   That's really supporting free speech.

Ignoring and suppressing are two very different things.  I would never deny you the right to express your opinion.  I am free to choose to ignore you however.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

4 minutes ago, realtruelove said:

Ignoring and suppressing are two very different things.  I would never deny you the right to express your opinion.  I am free to choose to ignore you however.

 

 

...LMAO...ignore Stat Boy with his daily Covid-19 update and deprive yourself of such value?......his posts are legendary on PPP as well as the football side...think you should reconsider.....

[Niagara]

14 minutes ago, IDBillzFan said:

 

Agreed.  Notice that I wrote that we don't need these people to feed us the stuff they have the right to express. I never said they shouldn't. They are welcome to do so, as we are welcome to respond accordingly. My hope is they realize that most Americans simply don't want to hear it/see it during the games.

 

The good news where the NFL is concerned is that the social justice stuff doesn't happen during the game other than a helmet sticker I can barely see. So DVR wipes out the stupid schitt for me. The field isn't covered in BLM Marxist/destroy the nuclear family crap like the NBA.

 

The smart play, honestly, are the custom shoes NFL players get to wear to support their personal cause. Let that continue to be the way the players can individually promote their causes, instead of forcing us with the singular issue of the day that is not near as popular as the media would have you believe.

1. To some degree you need the left to promote a discussion. Problem is they often flame throw in an effort to derail discussion. Notice they are minimally involved in this discussion.

2. My thinking is "ignore as in do not reply". No fun talking to yourself.

3. Another smart play I think would be to stop the Anthem playing altogether, but it is probably too late.

4. Avoid acquiring known socially conscious players like Josh Norman. Big story on CBS other day.

5. Maybe the players and Nike can strike a deal around protest shoes.

6. What are OTW  and TSW? Forums?

7. People actually get banned from PPP?

8. The Jets and Bills have a political forums. The Bills is the more active. The Dolphins, Steelers, Pats, Browns, Dolphins don't. The PPP is truly special. 

 

[3rdnlng]

2 hours ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

So, BG, this is an interesting point.  I’m glad you brought it up.
 

I have long felt CK was a poser of sorts, but be that as it may, one of my major issues was the “protest at work” issue.  Well, that and the relative irony of protesting in a tightly controlled environment guarded by those you are protesting against where only the entitled and elite were able to tread, on a surface made of fake grass that costs millions of dollars to produce  perhaps in some cases by people making minimum wage (all sponsored by AT&T).  
 

So, you go to work, you follow reasonable rules set in place by your employer, supersized as you pointed out to STAMP OUT individual displays of love, respect or gratitude by employees in spite of the things that are important to them. 
 

Phase 2 is upon us.  As it turns out, the employer has changed the rules to a certain extent, allowing now whatever it is that they will allow, in whatever manner they allow it.  This is where the consumer has a choice to make, and it becomes less about the employee and much more about the employer. 
 

From my perspective, the enterprise (NFL) is really just following the money.  That isn’t a bad thing, and certainly good things can flow from that sort of thing.  I thought the $90m dedicated to social causes was a good thing, just as supporting breast cancer awareness was/is.   It remains to be seen what that will look like on game day now and in the future.   

Any word on what Jesse's and Al's cuts are?

[shoshin]

On 9/5/2020 at 10:31 AM, westside2 said:

Who's the biggest board bully? If your so unhappy here, why don't you just leave? I'm sure you could find outlets that are more in line with your believes. There are plenty of them out there. 

I’m in the Covid topics because they are more active here. Why are they so active here? Because some of you are afraid of Hapless on the OT board.

 

We agree. Lots of other outlets so this board is not necessary. Cheers on that.   

3 hours ago, Q-baby! said:

😂😂😂 There it is! The real reason for the LAMP. Pick me! Pick me! 😂😂😂😂

 

The troll account gets the chicken dinner reserved for the winner. 

Edited September 6, 2020 by shoshin

[Deranged Rhino]

9 minutes ago, shoshin said:

I’m in the Covid topics because they are more active here. Why are they so active here? Because some of you are afraid of Hapless on the OT board.

 

We agree. Lots of other outlets so this board is not necessary. Cheers on that.   

The troll account gets the chicken dinner reserved for the winner. 

 

In other words: "people don't think like me here so I want to shut it all down -- even if that means destroying the rest of the site in the process."

[Buffalo_Gal]

24 minutes ago, shoshin said:

I’m in the Covid topics because they are more active here. Why are they so active here? Because some of you are afraid of Hapless on the OT board.

 

We agree. Lots of other outlets so this board is not necessary. Cheers on that.   

The troll account gets the chicken dinner reserved for the winner. 

And there is a reason for that. Hapless has the ability to give me a time-out for disagreeing. Now, I am not sure Hapless will do that, but I have had posts that contradicted that thread's narrative deleted, soooo 🤷‍♂️ why continue when only one type of article is allowed?
 

[Westside]

Just now, Buffalo_Gal said:

And there is a reason for that. Hapless has the ability to give me a time-out for disagreeing. Now, I am not sure Hapless will do that, but I have had posts that contradicted that thread's narrative deleted, soooo 🤷‍♂️ why continue when only one type of article is allowed?
 

I agree with you BG, i would even go as far as being heavy handed with people who don't agree with his way of thinking. Mods should be neutral, if you want to vent your opinions then you shouldn't be a mod. Just my opinion though. 

[Buffalo_Gal]

1 minute ago, westside2 said:

I agree with you BG, i would even go as far as being heavy handed with people who don't agree with his way of thinking. Mods should be neutral, if you want to vent your opinions then you shouldn't be a mod. Just my opinion though. 

I agree with that. I moderated a few very large boards many years ago. I had to be very quiet on my thoughts and beliefs in order to do that job well.  Anything I posted I had to decide whether or not it could be considered biased to X or Y or Z.  It does get tedious. Moderating is a difficult, thankless task, whether compensated or volunteer. I do not envy anyone that position.
 

[Nanker]

When Simon and AD moderated PPP things went along pretty well. I think GG and Beerball would be good mods here. I agree, the current mods don’t seem to have a sense how to let the dungeon run the dungeon with a minimum of interference. 
 

Seems we’ve got a bumper crop of precious little darlings that start a fight in the yard and then go crying to their favorite mod to come and make the mean kids stop bullying them. 
 

Frankly I’m tired of endless new threads that are little more than temper tantrums and hissy fits filled with ill will, intemperate remarks, and name calling. 

[transplantbillsfan]

 

5 hours ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

1. I do not care what the athletes say/do on their own time, provided it is legal. 

Can you "protest" while working at your job? Could you force your employer to allow you to "protest" on the job?  Or, should  your job be a place of work and dedication to that job when on  the company's dime?

The NFL has spent decades trying to build themselves as pro-American with the armed forces, singling the National Anthem, etc. They have not allowed anything on uniforms that was individualized - heck, they would not allow the  Dallas Cowboys to put decals supporting 5 fallen police officers on their helmets. Brandon Marshall could not support mental health issues. DeAngelo Williams could not wear pink all season in honor of his mother who died of breast cancer, and was told no (and this is with the NFL having a pink-month!)  Now, suddenly,  "protesting" on company time is a-ok?  The ratings should be interesting.
 

 

You understand there would be an NBA without NBA players? NBA players are probably the most uniquely gifted athletes in the world, which is why there's only 450 of them.

 

Get enough of those players in a small league to protest or walk out and what are the owners going to do? If they're invested long term in their product, they need to put the best product on the court, which means they need to put the best players on the court, which means they need to keep those players relatively content.

 

The other sports leagues operate on the same principle, but player leverage is less because there are more of them and so you have a watering down of opinions because you have more.

 

This is why unions exist, both in the real world and in sports. And if those unions have the leverage to allow their members to do things that would appear to you to be various forms of protest because too many of those members might otherwise leave their job--temporarily or otherwise--and the employer's bottom line will be too deeply affected, then the answer is yes, you can force your employer to "protest" on the job... I'm sure it would be contingent upon actually doing your job, though.

 

This is why unions are such a necessity in the America we know and love. They give voice and leverage to the cogs that keep the machine running.

 

 

Edited September 6, 2020 by transplantbillsfan

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

25 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

 

You understand there would be an NBA without NBA players? NBA players are probably the most uniquely gifted athletes in the world, which is why there's only 450 of them.

 

Get enough of those players in a small league to protest or walk out and what are the owners going to do? If they're invested long term in their product, they need to put the best product on the court, which means they need to put the best players on the court, which means they need to keep those players relatively content.

 

The other sports leagues operate on the same principle, but player leverage is less because there are more of them and so you have a watering down of opinions because you have more.

 

This is why unions exist, both in the real world and in sports. And if those unions have the leverage to allow their members to do things that would appear to you to be various forms of protest because too many of those members might otherwise leave their job--temporarily or otherwise--and the employer's bottom line will be too deeply affected, then the answer is yes, you can force your employer to "protest" on the job... I'm sure it would be contingent upon actually doing your job, though.

 

This is why unions are such a necessity in the America we know and love. They give voice and leverage to the cogs that keep the machine running.

 

 

 

Unions are simply corporate America under a different name.  They exist for the benefit of the union, generally at the exclusion of anyone not in the union.  There are hierarchies, those that have, those that really have, and those that have less than the other two parties.  There are stories of sacrifice, stories of apathy and of course, stories of greed and betrayal.  
 

The way I see it, there are two competing corporate entities battling to win the game.  That’s neither good nor bad, it just is.  Some win, some lose.  
 

As for the NBA, I think you underestimate the system that brings the wealth.  While I agree that the athletes are tremendously talented, when LeBron James retires, the game moves on.  The Lakers remain.  The Knicks remain.  It’s next man up.