PPP Under Fire

[transplantbillsfan]

Dear God this is pathetic.

 

I've now been venturing into PPP for a few years and nothing's changed over the last 3 years other than there actually being more of a balance between reasonable posters on BOTH sides of the political spectrum and the OP getting banned for a month for clearly not following his own advice. 

 

And #2 of the "ROE" is friggin hilarious. "Show your work" is followed by "stick around for an adult conversation." It's not exactly possible to have an adult conversation with anyone who automatically dismisses the work showed because of the message and the source.

 

You're the one who's fostered this culture of derision over here @Deranged Rhino along with a few other posters (a couple of whom are currently on my ignore list; as @Buffalo_Gal mentioned "ignore is your friend") and to try to pin blame on "the Other" is so hilariously disingenuous of you, which is appropriate.

 

I'd applaud this thread coming from almost anyone else.

 

Coming from you, it's a joke.

 

2 months until your new avatar...

[RochesterRob]

2 hours ago, keepthefaith said:

Maybe bad threads should be subjected to a polling question to determine if the thread should be shut down.  I'm sure the lefties around here wont mind a little majority rules and a filtering of undesirable speech once in a while.  We'll do it by popular vote. 

  Might work if people could not create sock accounts at the drop of a hat to weight the voting one way or another.

[Buftex]

3 hours ago, LB3 said:

One day he just said he was leaving. He popped back in once. Other than that, he's basically our own personal Keyser Soze.

 

Good for him.

[Teddy KGB]

If you don’t have section, Billstime, tibs, and wacky zebra blocked then you ain’t black ! 
 

ps.   Transplant too but sometimes you just have to ingest some cringe.  

Edited September 5, 2020 by Teddy KGB

[Tiberius]

5 hours ago, keepthefaith said:

Maybe bad threads should be subjected to a polling question to determine if the thread should be shut down.  I'm sure the lefties around here wont mind a little majority rules and a filtering of undesirable speech once in a while.  We'll do it by popular vote. 

So a majority of poster can decide what’s discussed? Tyranny of the majority is exactly why we have a first amendment 

[Magox]

On 9/4/2020 at 3:23 PM, Deranged Rhino said:

The Dungeon has long carried with it a comedically poor reputation among the other boards on TBD. Compared to the rest of the site, it's the Wild West, with a long standing tradition of self-modding and handling any disputes/spats in-house rather than letting it bleed over and contaminate the rest of the boards. This is because PPP was largely populated by adults, capable of having a conversation with someone else who did not share every single opinion they did. But as the political discourse in the country has become more divisive and explosive over the past 15+ years -- ramping up to new levels over the past 4 -- PPP has become even more of a tinderbox and now we find ourselves at a crossroad... 

 

Over the past several months the board has been flooded by new (old) voices and accounts whose strategy is to throw bombs, provoke a response, then run to a mod off the board and complain about "how nasty those PPPers are!" This has forced the mods to pay more attention than they would like to the Dungeon, and created unnecessary bleed-through of political topics onto TSW and other parts of TBD. This seems to be a deliberate strategy on the part of a few posters. Their goal is to destroy PPP. They do not like what is discussed here, thus they wish to shut it down entirely -- and to get that job done, they are purposefully throwing bombs then running to mods. 

 

We know the names. But it's important to understand the tactic being used against this board in order to combat it. Coddling or egging on the sock puppets, as we've done in the past, or mocking them into extinction, as we've done in the past, won't work this time because their goal has changed. Their goal is to provoke that exact kind of reaction to use it against us to get the place shuttered completely.  

 

Personally, I've found PPP to be a wonderful addition to the TSW site overall. Despite my initial misgivings when I first ventured down here, I've seen that when PPP is working properly -- which is does more often than not -- it represents a place where people can exchange ideas and discuss controversial topics without dirtying up the rest of the site. There have been countless times where opposing views have been presented by knowledgeable posters and created threads/discussions where both sides not only made great points but helped share new information and opened up the minds of "the other side". Yes, tensions sometimes get high and people get snippy -- but prior to the "cry for mommy" tactic, those could be sorted out quickly and painlessly either through self-policing or (good natured) group mocking/shaming.

 

But that tradition has been made more difficult than ever by a group of people looking to sow division and hostility just so they can use it to run to a mod. 

 

 

So how do we fix it? It starts by stepping back and remembering the purpose of PPP:

 

The purpose of PPP is, above all else, to keep anything political away from the primary boards. The primary job of PPP is to stay in the dungeon and keep the mudslinging confined within rather than polluting the rest of the board where most people are looking for an escape from just these sorts of divisive debates and bomb throwing. The discussion of these types of politically charged topics can/will lead to a debate, even confrontations from time to time, but they should be handled in house -- not the shoutbox, not TSW, not OTW, and not by running to mods who try like hell to stay out of the dungeon in the first place. 

 

Not to protect PPP, but to protect TSW and what Scott's built for us over the years.

 

The best way to do this is to adapt some sort of new Rules of Engagement designed to make the mods' lives easier, and to keep the dungeon open and functioning. Things are going to get more heated as we get closer (and past) the election in November. The attempts to get PPP closed down will also increase. So consider these ROEs as a way to thread the needle of keeping this sort of board functioning despite the vitriol and sabotage: 

 

1) Follow the ToS: This has always been a rule in PPP. Even though we've been given more slack in terms of how we communicate with one another or about one another, the general TOS have always applied. The infestation of posters trying to destroy PPP do not abide by this ROE, they flaunt it in the hopes of getting regular posters to take the bait then run to a mod. The way to combat this is not to engage at all with these types (we all know who they are). Yes, in the past it's been fun to quote or engage with the sock puppets and beat them around a bit. But now that's what they're hoping we do in order to provoke outrage from the mods. The only solution to this is not to engage at all with those sorts of posters or any threads they start (and remember, starting multiple threads on the same topic, or crusading, are violations of the TOS -- let them do it to get themselves in trouble, but don't engage). 

 

2) Show your work: PPP is about expressing your own personal political opinions and thoughts, regardless of your partisanship. That should be fostered and protected and the way to do that is to follow this simple rule: Present any argument/opinion you wish -- but be willing and prepared to show your work, back up your opinions and analysis by engaging in an actual discussion of the topic. That means sticking around to have an adult conversation, not just throwing bombs or insults then fleeing the scene. If someone is unwilling to engage or back up their work, they should be treated in accordance to the 1st ROE and ignored. Call it a good old fashioned shame shunning. 

 

That's it. Two very simple, very clear rules. It's not a perfect solution, but it's a step in the right direction. I personally think adding a new PPP mod might help as well, someone who knows the lay of the land and respects the traditions down here -- but can step in quicker than calling for the main mods when things get testy.

 

 

 

... Feel free to add any thoughts, ROEs or ideas to this thread. 

 

 

I didn't start doing this until I rejoined PPP side of things over the past year, which is to use the IGNORE function.  I really didn't have to before but with the increasing number of troll accounts, I found it necessary at least from my standpoint. 

 

I would recommend to put on ignore all the posters who had add little to no value.  Also, if you see a new account created and they start off with similar level of mouth-breather level of trolling - slap them with an IGNORE.

 

Makes things more tolerable.

Edited September 6, 2020 by Magox

[Q-baby!]

😂 Holy LAMP! 

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

Love ppp. Good place. But for me try not to say much. Like how I am in person little to say.  Leave it to people. If I wasn't born with any limitations I would say more. Sorry to those if I went something else just don't know what else to say. But love this place. Dr magox gal among others awesome here. Good post dr agree man

[New Improved DC Tom]

23 hours ago, Buftex said:

So, this may not be the place to ask this question, but what happened to DCTom? I genuinely miss his posts.

 

Was locked out of my account, stopped giving a *****, because probably 80% of the people on this site are useless blobs of ignorant protoplasm.

[US Egg]

3 hours ago, Tiberius said:

Tyranny of the majority is exactly why we have a first amendment 

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/editorials/adam-schiff-renews-the-democratic-war-against-the-first-amendment

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/trevorburrus/2014/09/11/terrifying-senate-democrats-vote-to-give-political-speech-less-protection-than-pornography/#653c35593f58

 

https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/democrats-house-first-amendment-second-amendment/

 

https://nypost.com/2018/08/03/how-liberals-turned-against-free-speech/

 

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/09/the-democrats-assault-on-free-speech-110641

 

https://www.city-journal.org/html/liberals-versus-political-speech-14330.html

 

https://nypost.com/2019/03/11/democrats-new-campaign-reforms-are-a-war-on-free-speech/

 

https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jun/3/senate-democrats-look-to-rewrite-first-amendment-i/

 

.....you support Dems, right ?

Edited September 6, 2020 by I am the egg man

[Azalin]

4 hours ago, Magox said:

 

I would recommend to put on ignore all the posters who had add little to no value.  Also, if you see a new account created and they start off with similar level of mouth-breather level of trolling - slap them with an IGNORE.

 

Makes things more tolerable.

 

I couldn't possibly agree with this more. Who knows, there may be a few posters who would stop trolling and might actually take a more mature approach to posting under a new ID if that's the only way they could get a response from people. 

 

(wishful thinking, I know)

[Doc Brown]

9 hours ago, keepthefaith said:

Maybe bad threads should be subjected to a polling question to determine if the thread should be shut down.  I'm sure the lefties around here wont mind a little majority rules and a filtering of undesirable speech once in a while.  We'll do it by popular vote. 

The only problem with that are threads with issues that leftists care about will be voted down and ignored since they are vastly outnumbered by right wing posters.  A simple solution to that would be some kind of system where left wing posters vote is given greater weight.

[transplantbillsfan]

2 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

The only problem with that are threads with issues that leftists care about will be voted down and ignored since they are vastly outnumbered by right wing posters.  A simple solution to that would be some kind of system where left wing posters vote is given greater weight.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

17 hours ago, GG said:

We understand that you are fully aware of openly supporting violence in the streets and the deaths that come from it.  

And then snitch to the mods when challenged.

[SoTier]

19 hours ago, IDBillzFan said:

 

 

No matter how hard some of us try, it seems no one cares that we turn to pastimes like sports and entertainment to ESCAPE politics and the increased amount of divisiveness it intentionally creates. 

 

We don't want or need to be lectured by LeBron James, Taylor Swift, Colin Kaepernick or Jim Gaffigan. We don't need to be educated by a Drew Brees helmet sticker. We just want to enjoy the effin' game or concert. My only hope is that the huge BLM push by MLB and NBA continues to destroy the fanbase so they'll all STFU and get back to doing what we asked them to do: perform for a few hours so as to distract us from the daily grind.

 

Professional athletes -- even Black athletes -- have lives outside of sports just like you have a life outside of your job or career.    They are all American citizens or legal residents which means that they have the right to express themselves just like "regular" -- ie, non-athlete -- American residents.  They aren't enslaved gladiators who have to perform in the Coliseum for the Roman masses or die.

 

18 hours ago, realtruelove said:

My take on all this is PPP and forums like it are a threat to all who would love to be able suppress free speech, liberty and viewpoints that differ from their own.  This is especially true now since we are approaching a presidential election that represents similar conflict.  It's war of ideas and ideals and the opposing sides will choose their weapons.  Mine is IGNORE.  It's highly effective, very stealth and the statistics prove it's worth.  The more users I put on ignore, the more it proves to me that those who choose to fight for life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness are winning.   Be like water.

 

ROTFLMAO!!!  "PPP and forums like it are a threat to all who would love to be able suppress free speech, liberty and viewpoints that differ from their own" but you put posters you disagree with on IGNORE.   That's really supporting free speech.

 

16 hours ago, keepthefaith said:

Maybe bad threads should be subjected to a polling question to determine if the thread should be shut down.  I'm sure the lefties around here wont mind a little majority rules and a filtering of undesirable speech once in a while.  We'll do it by popular vote. 

 

That works for me ... if the Righties around here support to change the US Constitution to have the popular vote determine who is elected POTUS.

 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

6 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

The only problem with that are threads with issues that leftists care about will be voted down and ignored since they are vastly outnumbered by right wing posters.  A simple solution to that would be some kind of system where left wing posters vote is given greater weight.

I vote NO on this issue, but I ascribe to the CTB theory of web domination.

 

 

 

 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

15 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Professional athletes -- even Black athletes -- have lives outside of sports just like you have a life outside of your job or career.    They are all American citizens or legal residents which means that they have the right to express themselves just like "regular" -- ie, non-athlete -- American residents.  They aren't enslaved gladiators who have to perform in the Coliseum for the Roman masses or die.

 

 

ROTFLMAO!!!  "PPP and forums like it are a threat to all who would love to be able suppress free speech, liberty and viewpoints that differ from their own" but you put posters you disagree with on IGNORE.   That's really supporting free speech.

 

 

That works for me ... if the Righties around here support to change the US Constitution to have the popular vote determine who is elected POTUS.

 

 As so often happens with the overly emotional, you seem to see only one side of the issue.  How does one’s exercising the right to express a point of view (the preference to watch a football game that is about football) lead you to the conclusion that by extension this means the participants are viewed as “enslaved Gladiators...” and all the overly dramatic language that follows? 

 

What’s pretty ironic is that the spectator sport you’re referencing has a long and rich history of suppressing thought/word/deed in an attempt to 1. maximize revenue and 2. Standardize fan experience.  In many ways, the NFL model follows a McDonald’s franchise model—-let’s be sure the French fries are the same from franchise to franchise to franchise.  Wear the proper helmet. Wear only the socks authorized by the league.  The players are allowed creative celebratory expression, to a point. 
 

Utilizing the “ignore“ feature has as much to do with suppression of free speech as muting the television during a commercial break, or shutting the window when your neighbors are arguing about what color hydrangeas they want to see coming up.  
 

For me, it’s all a matter of degree.  On the one hand, the NFL has done an amazing job of providing incredible wealth for many, many individuals.  For most, that wealth was unobtainable absent the unique physical gifts of the individual and a legitimate, structured and corporate environment to display them.  That’s a positive.  The NFL has also committed a substantial sum of money to social justice causes of late, and to the communities it serves for many, many years.  Again, that’s a positive. 
 

On the other hand, the NFL is hardly a paragon of virtue and I don’t necessarily look to it for any great moral life lessons.  I’m not much interested in being preached to, so the balance of whatever social messaging they want to send v the quality of the game day experience is what’s most important to me.  
 

 
 

 

[KRC]

10 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

Utilizing the “ignore“ feature has as much to do with suppression of free speech as muting the television during a commercial break, or shutting the window when your neighbors are arguing about what color hydrangeas they want to see coming up.  

 

 
 

 

 

People seem to have trouble with the concept of freedom of speech. First, they think that freedom of speech means that they can say whatever they want and they are immune to criticism, as if they are the only ones who have the freedom of speech. Wrong. You can say what you want to say and I can call you an idiot for saying it (and pay Tom the royalties).

 

Next, people think that freedom of speech means that others should be forced to listen to their opinions. Wrong again. You can say what you want and I am free to ignore it.

 

The ignore feature does not suppress free speech. Nobody is stopping people from saying what they want to say. However, free speech does not mean that people should be forced to listen to what is being said. You have a right to say it and I have a right to not listen to it.

 

Finally, this is a site where you must abide by the ToS. You specifically state when you register that you will abide by the ToS. If you do not abide by it, SDS can refuse service to you. Just like any business. They set the rules for who receives service and can deny anyone at any time. You agree to the rules when you register, so people need to stop with the "You are suppressing my freedoms." bull####.

[RochesterRob]

8 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

The only problem with that are threads with issues that leftists care about will be voted down and ignored since they are vastly outnumbered by right wing posters.  A simple solution to that would be some kind of system where left wing posters vote is given greater weight.

  Doubtful.  There seems to be plenty of leftist handles here.  A fair number did not reveal themselves until the pandemic hit and were so bored on TSW they started drifting over to PPP.  If anything I fear our regular lefties have made a note of this and will recruit TSW posters to come over on a vote.  I fear that right leaners and conservatives will be repeatedly shouted down.  

[RochesterRob]

1 hour ago, SoTier said:

 

Professional athletes -- even Black athletes -- have lives outside of sports just like you have a life outside of your job or career.    They are all American citizens or legal residents which means that they have the right to express themselves just like "regular" -- ie, non-athlete -- American residents.  They aren't enslaved gladiators who have to perform in the Coliseum for the Roman masses or die.

 

 

ROTFLMAO!!!  "PPP and forums like it are a threat to all who would love to be able suppress free speech, liberty and viewpoints that differ from their own" but you put posters you disagree with on IGNORE.   That's really supporting free speech.

 

 

That works for me ... if the Righties around here support to change the US Constitution to have the popular vote determine who is elected POTUS.

 

  When I worked for other people I had to abide by their rules and all my employers were sensitive to political discussion meaning not to offend customers or clients by injecting personal views into the workplace.  Yes, black athletes have lives outside of the workplace and that is the area in which to express their views.  It is just as inappropriate to express personal views on the field or the court as it would be to express views in the showroom or in the factory.  Our freedom does not come at the expense of the employer who hired us.