PPP Under Fire

[Q-baby!]

14 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

Then it should be very simple for you to be specific and tell me what that agenda is. Show your work. 

You are gunning for the bouncer job so you can only let the fat chicks into the bar. 

[meazza]

4 hours ago, 3rdnlng said:

Except that hasn't worked very well in the past.

 Because you idiots engage the trolls.  How hard is that to understand ? 

1 hour ago, Billsmisery said:

Nice post buffalo cow. I really can see it now!!

New member of my famed block list.   It keeps growing and growing!

[Nanker]

I really miss the old board’s feature where you could click on the thread’s post count and it would show the Number of posts of each member in descending order. Of his nearly 1,500 posts So-so must have 1,400 in the COVID WUHAN thread. We’re blessed to have him deign to try to impart his greatness upon us. We’re not worthy. He’ll use another 1,100 posts to tell us exactly why, and in seven hundred different ways.  

[shoshin]

10 hours ago, westside2 said:

Yet, here you are. Contributing to the "stain". Why don't you take your holier than though crap and leave. That action alone will greatly improve PPP.

Start a conversation. Don’t like an opinion about the topic the and start name calling and try to run the person off. 
 

Wonder why PPP is so well thought of and adds so much to the entire site? Exhibit A. You and many others proved my point. 

Edited September 8, 2020 by shoshin

[Reality Check]

40 minutes ago, shoshin said:

Start a conversation. Don’t like an opinion about the topic the and start name calling and try to run the person off. 
 

Wonder why PPP is so well thought of and adds so much to the entire site? Exhibit A. I’ll stick to your Covid thread. You and many others proved my point. 

 

[TH3]

On 9/4/2020 at 3:23 PM, Deranged Rhino said:

The Dungeon has long carried with it a comedically poor reputation among the other boards on TBD. Compared to the rest of the site, it's the Wild West, with a long standing tradition of self-modding and handling any disputes/spats in-house rather than letting it bleed over and contaminate the rest of the boards. This is because PPP was largely populated by adults, capable of having a conversation with someone else who did not share every single opinion they did. But as the political discourse in the country has become more divisive and explosive over the past 15+ years -- ramping up to new levels over the past 4 -- PPP has become even more of a tinderbox and now we find ourselves at a crossroad... 

 

Over the past several months the board has been flooded by new (old) voices and accounts whose strategy is to throw bombs, provoke a response, then run to a mod off the board and complain about "how nasty those PPPers are!" This has forced the mods to pay more attention than they would like to the Dungeon, and created unnecessary bleed-through of political topics onto TSW and other parts of TBD. This seems to be a deliberate strategy on the part of a few posters. Their goal is to destroy PPP. They do not like what is discussed here, thus they wish to shut it down entirely -- and to get that job done, they are purposefully throwing bombs then running to mods. 

 

We know the names. But it's important to understand the tactic being used against this board in order to combat it. Coddling or egging on the sock puppets, as we've done in the past, or mocking them into extinction, as we've done in the past, won't work this time because their goal has changed. Their goal is to provoke that exact kind of reaction to use it against us to get the place shuttered completely.  

 

Personally, I've found PPP to be a wonderful addition to the TSW site overall. Despite my initial misgivings when I first ventured down here, I've seen that when PPP is working properly -- which is does more often than not -- it represents a place where people can exchange ideas and discuss controversial topics without dirtying up the rest of the site. There have been countless times where opposing views have been presented by knowledgeable posters and created threads/discussions where both sides not only made great points but helped share new information and opened up the minds of "the other side". Yes, tensions sometimes get high and people get snippy -- but prior to the "cry for mommy" tactic, those could be sorted out quickly and painlessly either through self-policing or (good natured) group mocking/shaming.

 

But that tradition has been made more difficult than ever by a group of people looking to sow division and hostility just so they can use it to run to a mod. 

 

 

So how do we fix it? It starts by stepping back and remembering the purpose of PPP:

 

The purpose of PPP is, above all else, to keep anything political away from the primary boards. The primary job of PPP is to stay in the dungeon and keep the mudslinging confined within rather than polluting the rest of the board where most people are looking for an escape from just these sorts of divisive debates and bomb throwing. The discussion of these types of politically charged topics can/will lead to a debate, even confrontations from time to time, but they should be handled in house -- not the shoutbox, not TSW, not OTW, and not by running to mods who try like hell to stay out of the dungeon in the first place. 

 

Not to protect PPP, but to protect TSW and what Scott's built for us over the years.

 

The best way to do this is to adapt some sort of new Rules of Engagement designed to make the mods' lives easier, and to keep the dungeon open and functioning. Things are going to get more heated as we get closer (and past) the election in November. The attempts to get PPP closed down will also increase. So consider these ROEs as a way to thread the needle of keeping this sort of board functioning despite the vitriol and sabotage: 

 

1) Follow the ToS: This has always been a rule in PPP. Even though we've been given more slack in terms of how we communicate with one another or about one another, the general TOS have always applied. The infestation of posters trying to destroy PPP do not abide by this ROE, they flaunt it in the hopes of getting regular posters to take the bait then run to a mod. The way to combat this is not to engage at all with these types (we all know who they are). Yes, in the past it's been fun to quote or engage with the sock puppets and beat them around a bit. But now that's what they're hoping we do in order to provoke outrage from the mods. The only solution to this is not to engage at all with those sorts of posters or any threads they start (and remember, starting multiple threads on the same topic, or crusading, are violations of the TOS -- let them do it to get themselves in trouble, but don't engage). 

 

2) Show your work: PPP is about expressing your own personal political opinions and thoughts, regardless of your partisanship. That should be fostered and protected and the way to do that is to follow this simple rule: Present any argument/opinion you wish -- but be willing and prepared to show your work, back up your opinions and analysis by engaging in an actual discussion of the topic. That means sticking around to have an adult conversation, not just throwing bombs or insults then fleeing the scene. If someone is unwilling to engage or back up their work, they should be treated in accordance to the 1st ROE and ignored. Call it a good old fashioned shame shunning. 

 

That's it. Two very simple, very clear rules. It's not a perfect solution, but it's a step in the right direction. I personally think adding a new PPP mod might help as well, someone who knows the lay of the land and respects the traditions down here -- but can step in quicker than calling for the main mods when things get testy.

 

 

 

... Feel free to add any thoughts, ROEs or ideas to this thread. 

The only thing I have noticed in the last bit...snowflake....is more posts disagreeing with the regulars

[Niagara]

9 hours ago, 3rdnlng said:

Except that hasn't worked very well in the past.

They are like rats who feed off society. They high five themselves, but they depend on getting a reaction from YOU. They can not survive talking to themselves bc they have nothing to say. They are not here to engage, but just to cause mayhem.  

Use the PM function to remind people NOT to respond.

Do not respond to their posts OR threads, or live with the rats. Society does.

 

Updated "var met list"

billstime
tiberius
q-baby
buftex
gregpersons
penfield45
billsmisery
tbbills
kemp
sectionc3
trumpvirus
gobuffalo716
thefrankishreich
reality check
transplantbillsfan
shoshin
th3

Edited September 8, 2020 by Niagara

[Reality Check]

15 hours ago, Crayola64 said:

Yes!  I know he mainly spams against other trolls, but 99% of his posts are textbook spam in my opinion.  

 

15 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

@Buffalo_Gal... can you read?

 

[Q-baby!]

Did I just hear a whaaaambulance? 

[shoshin]

7 hours ago, Deranged Rhino said:

Then it should be very simple for you to be specific and tell me what that agenda is. Show your work. 

I already pasted 20 pages of your agenda, though I skipped all the times you name call and demean others. So as tempting as it is to make this thread, board, and everything more about you personally, I’ll pass. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

6 hours ago, meazza said:

 Because you idiots engage the trolls.  How hard is that to understand ? 

New member of my famed block list.   It keeps growing and growing!

 

That guy is a REAL shitlord.

 

[WEATHER DOT COM]

1 hour ago, Niagara said:

They are like rats who feed off society. They high five themselves, but they depend on getting a reaction from YOU. They can not survive talking to themselves bc they have nothing to say. They are not here to engage, but just to cause mayhem.  

Use the PM function to remind people NOT to respond.

Do not respond to their posts OR threads, or live with the rats. Society does.

 

Updated "var met list"

billstime
tiberius
q-baby
buftex
gregpersons
penfield45
billsmisery
tbbills
kemp
sectionc3
trumpvirus
gobuffalo716
thefrankishreich
reality check
transplantbillsfan
shoshin
th3

 

How am I not on this list?

8 hours ago, Q-baby! said:

You are gunning for the bouncer job so you can only let the fat chicks into the bar. 

 

Pleasant way to put it

[meazza]

1 hour ago, Niagara said:

They are like rats who feed off society. They high five themselves, but they depend on getting a reaction from YOU. They can not survive talking to themselves bc they have nothing to say. They are not here to engage, but just to cause mayhem.  

Use the PM function to remind people NOT to respond.

Do not respond to their posts OR threads, or live with the rats. Society does.

 

Updated "var met list"

billstime
tiberius
q-baby
buftex
gregpersons
penfield45
billsmisery
tbbills
kemp
sectionc3
trumpvirus
gobuffalo716
thefrankishreich
reality check
transplantbillsfan
shoshin
th3

IMO Shoshin & buftex don’t deserve to be on that list.

[Niagara]

12 minutes ago, meazza said:

IMO Shoshin & buftex don’t deserve to be on that list.

Updated "var met list"

billstime
tiberius
q-baby
gregpersons
penfield45
billsmisery
tbbills
kemp
sectionc3
trumpvirus
gobuffalo716
thefrankishreich
reality check
transplantbillsfan
th3

wAcKy ZeBrA

[WEATHER DOT COM]

Is DR a mod yet?

 

Good grief

[Numark3]

26 minutes ago, Niagara said:

Updated "var met list"

billstime
tiberius
q-baby
gregpersons
penfield45
billsmisery
tbbills
kemp
sectionc3
trumpvirus
gobuffalo716
thefrankishreich
reality check
transplantbillsfan
th3

wAcKy ZeBrA

this is good.  Kemp also shouldn’t be on it either imo.  And I know this is controversial, but I don’t see Tibs as a troll (or really transplantbillsfan)
 

I don’t know anything about gobuffalo716 or the Frankishreich.  

others should weigh in.  And if like 20 of us will agree to do it, implement this ignore list.  

[whatdrought]

12 minutes ago, Crayola64 said:

this is good.  Kemp also shouldn’t be on it either imo.  And I know this is controversial, but I don’t see Tibs as a troll (or really transplantbillsfan)
 

I don’t know anything about gobuffalo716 or the Frankishreich.  

others should weigh in.  And if like 20 of us will agree to do it, implement this ignore list.  

 

Tibs is a strange one cause he spews a lot of crap without being willing to discuss it like an adult (choosing instead to stick to his “orange man bad” mantra), but he’s actually shown to be a human and have some fun conversations. I like going back and forth with him on some stuff, while other stuff is pointless. He’s also pretty damn funny at times. 

There are many on the above list that have no redeeming qualities.

 

 

I’m not sure I’m in favor of a group ignore list. I get the idea, but I think it should be a personal decision in each case as it should be about each poster knowing what they can and can’t put up with instead of some communal shunning. 

 

My .02

Edited September 8, 2020 by whatdrought

[whatdrought]

11 hours ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

Because “I know what you are, but what am I?” discourse does not further the discussion. Honestly? The trolls are not solely to blame. Their schtick only works with a participating audience. No audience? No participation? They either get bored and go away, or talk to themselves. 
 

It also takes about 12 seconds to identify a sock puppet. We are not dealing with the masters of disguise. Again, ignore function.

 

Is it tedious? Yes. Will it make for a better sub-forum? Hopefully.

 

Note that I say trolls. I do not mean people on the other side of the political aisle who do engage in substantive arguments. Listening, engaging, and discussing both sides of any argument makes for great debate.

 

 

 

Speaking of ignore- does anyone know if it can be done on mobile browser?

[RochesterRob]

2 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

 

Tibs is a strange one cause he spews a lot of crap without being willing to discuss it like an adult (choosing instead to stick to his “orange man bad” mantra), but he’s actually shown to be a human and have some fun conversations. I like going back and forth with him on some stuff, while other stuff is pointless. He’s also pretty damn funny at times. 

There are many on the above list that have no redeeming qualities.

 

 

I’m not sure I’m in favor of a group ignore list. I get the idea, but I think it should be a personal decision in each case as it should be about each poster knowing what they can and can’t put up with instead of some communal shunning. 

 

My .02

  The only one that I would give the benefit of the doubt to is ALF.  Tibs will be a human only when he knows that he is caught in something that he can't defend.  Now some of them such as Kemp can function on TSW well enough and most likely should stay there.  The text that Crayola had that you responded to was just more gaslighting in an effort to see who is weak on here.

[Numark3]

8 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

 

Tibs is a strange one cause he spews a lot of crap without being willing to discuss it like an adult (choosing instead to stick to his “orange man bad” mantra), but he’s actually shown to be a human and have some fun conversations. I like going back and forth with him on some stuff, while other stuff is pointless. He’s also pretty damn funny at times. 

There are many on the above list that have no redeeming qualities.

 

 

I’m not sure I’m in favor of a group ignore list. I get the idea, but I think it should be a personal decision in each case as it should be about each poster knowing what they can and can’t put up with instead of some communal shunning. 

 

My .02

yea there are a few who won’t engage in good faith conversations, but they aren’t spamming and ruining this board.  I’d be in favor of a group ignore list if it’s narrowed a bit more to those without any redeeming qualities who truly just spam.

 

but I get your point