PPP Under Fire

[Deranged Rhino]

The Dungeon has long carried with it a comedically poor reputation among the other boards on TBD. Compared to the rest of the site, it's the Wild West, with a long standing tradition of self-modding and handling any disputes/spats in-house rather than letting it bleed over and contaminate the rest of the boards. This is because PPP was largely populated by adults, capable of having a conversation with someone else who did not share every single opinion they did. But as the political discourse in the country has become more divisive and explosive over the past 15+ years -- ramping up to new levels over the past 4 -- PPP has become even more of a tinderbox and now we find ourselves at a crossroad... 

 

Over the past several months the board has been flooded by new (old) voices and accounts whose strategy is to throw bombs, provoke a response, then run to a mod off the board and complain about "how nasty those PPPers are!" This has forced the mods to pay more attention than they would like to the Dungeon, and created unnecessary bleed-through of political topics onto TSW and other parts of TBD. This seems to be a deliberate strategy on the part of a few posters. Their goal is to destroy PPP. They do not like what is discussed here, thus they wish to shut it down entirely -- and to get that job done, they are purposefully throwing bombs then running to mods. 

 

We know the names. But it's important to understand the tactic being used against this board in order to combat it. Coddling or egging on the sock puppets, as we've done in the past, or mocking them into extinction, as we've done in the past, won't work this time because their goal has changed. Their goal is to provoke that exact kind of reaction to use it against us to get the place shuttered completely.  

 

Personally, I've found PPP to be a wonderful addition to the TSW site overall. Despite my initial misgivings when I first ventured down here, I've seen that when PPP is working properly -- which is does more often than not -- it represents a place where people can exchange ideas and discuss controversial topics without dirtying up the rest of the site. There have been countless times where opposing views have been presented by knowledgeable posters and created threads/discussions where both sides not only made great points but helped share new information and opened up the minds of "the other side". Yes, tensions sometimes get high and people get snippy -- but prior to the "cry for mommy" tactic, those could be sorted out quickly and painlessly either through self-policing or (good natured) group mocking/shaming.

 

But that tradition has been made more difficult than ever by a group of people looking to sow division and hostility just so they can use it to run to a mod. 

 

 

So how do we fix it? It starts by stepping back and remembering the purpose of PPP:

 

The purpose of PPP is, above all else, to keep anything political away from the primary boards. The primary job of PPP is to stay in the dungeon and keep the mudslinging confined within rather than polluting the rest of the board where most people are looking for an escape from just these sorts of divisive debates and bomb throwing. The discussion of these types of politically charged topics can/will lead to a debate, even confrontations from time to time, but they should be handled in house -- not the shoutbox, not TSW, not OTW, and not by running to mods who try like hell to stay out of the dungeon in the first place. 

 

Not to protect PPP, but to protect TSW and what Scott's built for us over the years.

 

The best way to do this is to adapt some sort of new Rules of Engagement designed to make the mods' lives easier, and to keep the dungeon open and functioning. Things are going to get more heated as we get closer (and past) the election in November. The attempts to get PPP closed down will also increase. So consider these ROEs as a way to thread the needle of keeping this sort of board functioning despite the vitriol and sabotage: 

 

1) Follow the ToS: This has always been a rule in PPP. Even though we've been given more slack in terms of how we communicate with one another or about one another, the general TOS have always applied. The infestation of posters trying to destroy PPP do not abide by this ROE, they flaunt it in the hopes of getting regular posters to take the bait then run to a mod. The way to combat this is not to engage at all with these types (we all know who they are). Yes, in the past it's been fun to quote or engage with the sock puppets and beat them around a bit. But now that's what they're hoping we do in order to provoke outrage from the mods. The only solution to this is not to engage at all with those sorts of posters or any threads they start (and remember, starting multiple threads on the same topic, or crusading, are violations of the TOS -- let them do it to get themselves in trouble, but don't engage). 

 

2) Show your work: PPP is about expressing your own personal political opinions and thoughts, regardless of your partisanship. That should be fostered and protected and the way to do that is to follow this simple rule: Present any argument/opinion you wish -- but be willing and prepared to show your work, back up your opinions and analysis by engaging in an actual discussion of the topic. That means sticking around to have an adult conversation, not just throwing bombs or insults then fleeing the scene. If someone is unwilling to engage or back up their work, they should be treated in accordance to the 1st ROE and ignored. Call it a good old fashioned shame shunning. 

 

That's it. Two very simple, very clear rules. It's not a perfect solution, but it's a step in the right direction. I personally think adding a new PPP mod might help as well, someone who knows the lay of the land and respects the traditions down here -- but can step in quicker than calling for the main mods when things get testy.

 

 

 

... Feel free to add any thoughts, ROEs or ideas to this thread. 

[DrDawkinstein]

A good ol PPPAnon conspiracy theory!

[Deranged Rhino]

2 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

A good ol PPPAnon conspiracy theory!

 

?

[SectionC3]

1 minute ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

?

 

5 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

The Dungeon has long carried with it a comedically poor reputation among the other boards on TBD. Compared to the rest of the site, it's the Wild West, with a long standing tradition of self-modding and handling any disputes/spats in-house rather than letting it bleed over and contaminate the rest of the boards. This is because PPP was largely populated by adults, capable of having a conversation with someone else who did not share every single opinion they did. But as the political discourse in the country has become more divisive and explosive over the past 15+ years -- ramping up to new levels over the past 4 -- PPP has become even more of a tinderbox and now we find ourselves at a crossroad... 

 

Over the past several months the board has been flooded by new (old) voices and accounts whose strategy is to throw bombs, provoke a response, then run to a mod off the board and complain about "how nasty those PPPers are!" This has forced the mods to pay more attention than they would like to the Dungeon, and created unnecessary bleed-through of political topics onto TSW and other parts of TBD. This seems to be a deliberate strategy on the part of a few posters. Their goal is to destroy PPP. They do not like what is discussed here, thus they wish to shut it down entirely -- and to get that job done, they are purposefully throwing bombs then running to mods. 

 

We know the names. But it's important to understand the tactic being used against this board in order to combat it. Coddling or egging on the sock puppets, as we've done in the past, or mocking them into extinction, as we've done in the past, won't work this time because their goal has changed. Their goal is to provoke that exact kind of reaction to use it against us to get the place shuttered completely.  

 

Personally, I've found PPP to be a wonderful addition to the TSW site overall. Despite my initial misgivings when I first ventured down here, I've seen that when PPP is working properly -- which is does more often than not -- it represents a place where people can exchange ideas and discuss controversial topics without dirtying up the rest of the site. There have been countless times where opposing views have been presented by knowledgeable posters and created threads/discussions where both sides not only made great points but helped share new information and opened up the minds of "the other side". Yes, tensions sometimes get high and people get snippy -- but prior to the "cry for mommy" tactic, those could be sorted out quickly and painlessly either through self-policing or (good natured) group mocking/shaming.

 

But that tradition has been made more difficult than ever by a group of people looking to sow division and hostility just so they can use it to run to a mod. 

 

 

So how do we fix it? It starts by stepping back and remembering the purpose of PPP:

 

The purpose of PPP is, above all else, to keep anything political away from the primary boards. The primary job of PPP is to stay in the dungeon and keep the mudslinging confined within rather than polluting the rest of the board where most people are looking for an escape from just these sorts of divisive debates and bomb throwing. The discussion of these types of politically charged topics can/will lead to a debate, even confrontations from time to time, but they should be handled in house -- not the shoutbox, not TSW, not OTW, and not by running to mods who try like hell to stay out of the dungeon in the first place. 

 

Not to protect PPP, but to protect TSW and what Scott's built for us over the years.

 

The best way to do this is to adapt some sort of new Rules of Engagement designed to make the mods' lives easier, and to keep the dungeon open and functioning. Things are going to get more heated as we get closer (and past) the election in November. The attempts to get PPP closed down will also increase. So consider these ROEs as a way to thread the needle of keeping this sort of board functioning despite the vitriol and sabotage: 

 

1) Follow the ToS: This has always been a rule in PPP. Even though we've been given more slack in terms of how we communicate with one another or about one another, the general TOS have always applied. The infestation of posters trying to destroy PPP do not abide by this ROE, they flaunt it in the hopes of getting regular posters to take the bait then run to a mod. The way to combat this is not to engage at all with these types (we all know who they are). Yes, in the past it's been fun to quote or engage with the sock puppets and beat them around a bit. But now that's what they're hoping we do in order to provoke outrage from the mods. The only solution to this is not to engage at all with those sorts of posters or any threads they start (and remember, starting multiple threads on the same topic, or crusading, are violations of the TOS -- let them do it to get themselves in trouble, but don't engage). 

 

2) Show your work: PPP is about expressing your own personal political opinions and thoughts, regardless of your partisanship. That should be fostered and protected and the way to do that is to follow this simple rule: Present any argument/opinion you wish -- but be willing and prepared to show your work, back up your opinions and analysis by engaging in an actual discussion of the topic. That means sticking around to have an adult conversation, not just throwing bombs or insults then fleeing the scene. If someone is unwilling to engage or back up their work, they should be treated in accordance to the 1st ROE and ignored. Call it a good old fashioned shame shunning. 

 

That's it. Two very simple, very clear rules. It's not a perfect solution, but it's a step in the right direction. I personally think adding a new PPP mod might help as well, someone who knows the lay of the land and respects the traditions down here -- but can step in quicker than calling for the main mods when things get testy.

 

 

 

... Feel free to add any thoughts, ROEs or ideas to this thread. 

 

I expected nonsense when I started to read this.  But it’s actually very thoughtful, and for that you deserve credit.  Well done. 

 

[Buffalo_Gal]

Ignore is your friend. Learn it, use it, embrace it. Do not encourage the trolls or the sock puppets.  🙂

DO exchange thoughts and well thought out arguments and discussions with those on all political sides. 🙂

Have a nice day. 🙂



 

[Taro T]

6 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

The Dungeon has long carried with it a comedically poor reputation among the other boards on TBD. Compared to the rest of the site, it's the Wild West, with a long standing tradition of self-modding and handling any disputes/spats in-house rather than letting it bleed over and contaminate the rest of the boards. This is because PPP was largely populated by adults, capable of having a conversation with someone else who did not share every single opinion they did. But as the political discourse in the country has become more divisive and explosive over the past 15+ years -- ramping up to new levels over the past 4 -- PPP has become even more of a tinderbox and now we find ourselves at a crossroad... 

 

 

...

 

 

 

... Feel free to add any thoughts, ROEs or ideas to this thread. 

 

'Bout the only thing that might work is what Buffalo Gal has been telling you since you came back, flat out ignore or at a minimum don't engage at all w/ the sock puppets.  Well, exceptin' for Tibs.  He's kinda grandfathered into the place.

[DFT]

I welcome any and all opposing views and thoughts.  I’ve admittedly stooped lower than I thought I could, engaging with posters who had ulterior motives (trolling).  It’s unfortunate, but it’s what happened at BBB as well.

 

Personally, I think the mods do an outstanding job on these forums.  I mean that wholeheartedly.  My hope going forward is for ppp to be the behind-screen release for many of us that can’t have these conversations in person.  I’m committed to doing my part as long as I’m here.

 

It doesn’t seem to be too forgone for us to get back to being civil in accordance with the rules.  But admittedly, I’ve watched us get off track and at times, found myself being swept in the current instead of rising against it.  
 

I respect all viewpoints and won’t need that respect to give it.  Personally, I just need to better adhere to the “ignore” list I’ve created and with respect to you all, be a better contributor.  
 

I’ve very much enjoyed my brief time here and thank everyone for what they do.  👍

[Hedge]

Nice post DR.

 

I will admit that I was sad to see Gary's latest nonsense thread get closed by a mod.

I was just ready to lighten the mood in there with a really long joke...

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

7 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

Ignore is your friend. Learn it, use it, embrace it. Do not encourage the trolls or the sock puppets.  🙂

DO exchange thoughts and well thought out arguments and discussions with those on all political sides. 🙂

Have a nice day. 🙂



 

 

...great points BG and great write up DR...... trolls or the sock puppets are pretty much a known commodity who are here only to goad folks into heated responses which end up "over the line"......ban them and they come back with a new screen name.....can't trace via ISP's......IP addresses are dynamic or randomly assigned at login.....static or unchanged IP addresses are a necessity used for businesses....reporting the IP address only gets you to the ISP (ie. roadrunner)......I'm told the ONLY time they'll go further is a criminal investigation....

[Reality Check]

15 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

 

 

I expected nonsense when I started to read this.  But it’s actually very thoughtful, and for that you deserve credit.  Well done. 

 

 

[KD in CA]

3) Don't feed the trolls.  Stop posting in their threads and get over the 'I don't need to put anyone on ignore' nonsense.  

 

 

For many years, AD would step in when needed for mod duty (was not needed often), so yeah, would be good to have a PPP-only mod again.   Arbitrary rulings/lectures from main board mods who don't understand the community doesn't really work.

 

Nominations?

[Reality Check]

 

[Buffalo_Gal]

3 minutes ago, KD in CA said:

3) Don't feed the trolls.  Stop posting in their threads and get over the 'I don't need to put anyone on ignore' nonsense.  

 

 

For many years, AD would step in when needed for mod duty (was not needed often), so yeah, would be good to have a PPP-only mod again.   Arbitrary rulings/lectures from main board mods who don't understand the community doesn't really work.

 

Nominations?

Is @Alaska Darin done down here?
 

[Deranged Rhino]

1 minute ago, KD in CA said:

3) Don't feed the trolls.  Stop posting in their threads and get over the 'I don't need to put anyone on ignore' nonsense.  

 

 

For many years, AD would step in when needed for mod duty (was not needed often), so yeah, would be good to have a PPP-only mod again.   Arbitrary rulings/lectures from main board mods who don't understand the community doesn't really work.

 

Nominations?

 

I don't want to do it, but would because I'm here enough. I'd love to see some others do it, but I have a feeling they wouldn't want the job (thinking of Buffalo Gal, Doc Brown, Azalin, KRC, and a few others). 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

17 minutes ago, DFT said:

I welcome any and all opposing views and thoughts.  I’ve admittedly stooped lower than I thought I could, engaging with posters who had ulterior motives (trolling).  It’s unfortunate, but it’s what happened at BBB as well.

 

Personally, I think the mods do an outstanding job on these forums.  I mean that wholeheartedly.  My hope going forward is for ppp to be the behind-screen release for many of us that can’t have these conversations in person.  I’m committed to doing my part as long as I’m here.

 

It doesn’t seem to be too forgone for us to get back to being civil in accordance with the rules.  But admittedly, I’ve watched us get off track and at times, found myself being swept in the current instead of rising against it.  
 

I respect all viewpoints and won’t need that respect to give it.  Personally, I just need to better adhere to the “ignore” list I’ve created and with respect to you all, be a better contributor.  
 

I’ve very much enjoyed my brief time here and thank everyone for what they do.  👍

 

...yup....remember that very well......agree with assessment of MODs' efforts, but certainly see why they tried to maintain a "hands off approach" for the PPP Playpen.....being assigned duty here could lead to strokes.....sadly, the disappearance of societal decorum has permeated the ranks of PPP..........social media has emboldened the "tough guys", keyboard cowardice from the safety of underneath their desks in Mom's basement....a real shame..............

Edited September 4, 2020 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[KD in CA]

Just now, Buffalo_Gal said:

Is @Alaska Darin done down here?
 

 

I think Darin and Ken are semi-retired.

 

Rhino or @GG would be my choice.

[BillsFanNC]

I agree with DR here, and only when a poster proves 10x over that they don't want to obey the ToS and/or engage in adult conversation do i resort to putting them on ignore. Prior to the past 18 months I had only two long time posters on ignore. Since that time the list of posters and their aliases on my ignore list has grown to about 20. 

 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

1 minute ago, BillsFanNC said:

I agree with DR here, and only when a poster proves 10x over that they don't want to obey the ToS and/or engage in adult conversation do i resort to putting them on ignore. Prior to the past 18 months I had only two long time posters on ignore. Since that time the list of posters and their aliases on my ignore list has grown to about 20. 

 

 

 

...using IGNORE would deprive me of humor with my morning coffee.....we all know who the trolls and sock puppets are.....I read but never respond.....they just confirm daily with their downward spiral how relaxed mental hygiene was a bad, BAD idea......"paging Dr. Ruth"......

[Prickly Pete]

This is exactly what the "Ignore" feature is for.

 

No one is obligated to sift through the ridiculous posts of trolls, to somehow maintain that they have an open mind to counter arguments.

Just block them.

[Numark3]

If the main posters all agree to ignore a certain group, that could be a solution.  But interesting thread coming from one of the few people that got themselves suspended for harassing people on ppp....meaning we can all do better