Miami Confirms that Rosen might be traded Update: signed w/ Tampa Bay

[stinky finger]

10 hours ago, Lurker said:

 

IDK.  According to PFF, Miami had the worst O-Line in the the NFL in 2019.  The same thing with Arizona in 2018.    The odds of any QB succeeding in those sitituations are next to nil.   

 

Going to a better team like the Bucs with no pressure and getting to watch how the GOAT prepares and plays (even if Brady's a shell of his former self) will probably help Rosen as much as possible in an NFL setting...

 

The excuses have to stop. It's not like he's the only one to have been placed in less than favorable circumstances.

 

It speaks more about him than the circumstance. These organizations that have had the "pleasure" of his "services" knew what the circumstances were. It was determined in each instance that moving forward, this guy was not the answer. 

 

   

[NewEra]

41 minutes ago, inaugural balls said:

 

The excuses have to stop. It's not like he's the only one to have been placed in less than favorable circumstances.

 

It speaks more about him than the circumstance. These organizations that have had the "pleasure" of his "services" knew what the circumstances were. It was determined in each instance that moving forward, this guy was not the answer. 

 

   

What does this have to do with Rosen being in awful circumstance?  You don’t think a piss poor excuse for a team with god awful offensive lines can have a negative effect on a rookie/1st year qb that has no mobility?

 

sure, some QBs are good enough to overcome having no blocking.  Just because rosen isn’t one of those QBs doesn’t mean he can’t succeed in a good culture with a legit NFL OL.  I’m not saying he’s going to be good but I don’t see how anyone could deem him irrelevant just yet.   

[Sherlock Holmes]

At least if Rosen breaks out after learning from Brady it's in TB and not for the Cheats like we all imagined...😗

[stinky finger]

If either of these organizations thought he was worthy of keeping him, they would have. Miami couldn't even get a late rounder.

 

The arrow is pointing up for both of Rosen's former employers as well since he left. Yes, circumstances changed. But two teams determined he was not the QB to lead them.

 

They all can make excuses. You're given an opportunity. Make the best of it - or not.

 

Tampa seems like a good spot for him. Sit behind TB for a year or two, learn, then step into a QB friendly, talented roster. 

 

Time will tell. I'm skeptical how relevant he'll be 2-3 years from now. How can you not be?

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

11 minutes ago, NewEra said:

What does this have to do with Rosen being in awful circumstance?  You don’t think a piss poor excuse for a team with god awful offensive lines can have a negative effect on a rookie/1st year qb that has no mobility?

 

sure, some QBs are good enough to overcome having no blocking.  Just because rosen isn’t one of those QBs doesn’t mean he can’t succeed in a good culture with a legit NFL OL.  I’m not saying he’s going to be good but I don’t see how anyone could deem him irrelevant just yet.   

Fitz, for example

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

Fitz, for example

Yeah.  10+ year vet that already understands the nuances of reading a defense that has some

mobility.

 

not to mention rosen has had a different OC every year since freshman year college.  
 

my point is, I don’t think it’s fair to label his career as over just yet.  It might be.  He’s been bad.  I just think the right situation could make an nfl QB out of him

Edited September 7, 2020 by NewEra

[Hapless Bills Fan]

47 minutes ago, inaugural balls said:

If either of these organizations thought he was worthy of keeping him, they would have. Miami couldn't even get a late rounder.

 

The arrow is pointing up for both of Rosen's former employers as well since he left. Yes, circumstances changed. But two teams determined he was not the QB to lead them.

 

They all can make excuses. You're given an opportunity. Make the best of it - or not.

 

Tampa seems like a good spot for him. Sit behind TB for a year or two, learn, then step into a QB friendly, talented roster. 

 

Time will tell. I'm skeptical how relevant he'll be 2-3 years from now. How can you not be?

 

Miami couldn't get a late rounder because the trade partner would have had to swallow Rosen's 1st-round guaranteed salary for 2 years.

[C.Biscuit97]

1 hour ago, inaugural balls said:

 

The excuses have to stop. It's not like he's the only one to have been placed in less than favorable circumstances.

 

It speaks more about him than the circumstance. These organizations that have had the "pleasure" of his "services" knew what the circumstances were. It was determined in each instance that moving forward, this guy was not the answer. 

 

   

Josh Allen would look just as bad in those circumstances.  It was awful situations.  Now maybe he will suck anywhere, but to pretend like he was given a fair chance to succeed is an absolute lie.

 

more qbs are ruined than developed.  Luckily for us, the Bills are doing a really good job around Allen.  If Rosen (or Allen does) fails in our situation, they must likely don’t have it. 

4 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Yeah.  10+ year vet that already understands the nuances of reading a defense that has some

mobility.

 

not to mention rosen has had a different OC every year since freshman year college.  
 

my point is, I don’t think it’s fair to label his career as over just yet.  It might be.  He’s been bad.  I just think the right situation could make an nfl an out of him

Fitz is better than most young qbs. He is a top 20 qb in the nfl.  Sam Bradford looked worse in Arizona than Rosen.  
 

I know people hate him but he has been placed in awful, awful situations with little chance to succeed. 

[stinky finger]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Miami couldn't get a late rounder because the trade partner would have had to swallow Rosen's 1st-round guaranteed salary for 2 years.

 

Precisely. Apparently he's not worth it. 

 

Doesn't speak very highly of JR now, does it?

3 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Josh Allen would look just as bad in those circumstances.  It was awful situations.  Now maybe he will suck anywhere, but to pretend like he was given a fair chance to succeed is an absolute lie.

 

more qbs are ruined than developed.  Luckily for us, the Bills are doing a really good job around Allen.  If Rosen (or Allen does) fails in our situation, they must likely don’t have it. 

 

The good ones rise above. 

 

I do agree that JA is in a better place. We'll find out this year if he's "that guy". I very optimistic.

 

However, if for some reason he's not our guy, would I turn to JR?

 

Not on your life.

[NewEra]

17 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Josh Allen would look just as bad in those circumstances.  It was awful situations.  Now maybe he will suck anywhere, but to pretend like he was given a fair chance to succeed is an absolute lie.

 

more qbs are ruined than developed.  Luckily for us, the Bills are doing a really good job around Allen.  If Rosen (or Allen does) fails in our situation, they must likely don’t have it. 

Fitz is better than most young qbs. He is a top 20 qb in the nfl.  Sam Bradford looked worse in Arizona than Rosen.  
 

I know people hate him but he has been placed in awful, awful situations with little chance to succeed. 

Preaching to the choir my man

[eball]

2 hours ago, inaugural balls said:

 

The excuses have to stop. It's not like he's the only one to have been placed in less than favorable circumstances.

 

It speaks more about him than the circumstance. These organizations that have had the "pleasure" of his "services" knew what the circumstances were. It was determined in each instance that moving forward, this guy was not the answer. 

   

 

27 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Josh Allen would look just as bad in those circumstances.  It was awful situations.  Now maybe he will suck anywhere, but to pretend like he was given a fair chance to succeed is an absolute lie.

 

more qbs are ruined than developed.  Luckily for us, the Bills are doing a really good job around Allen.  If Rosen (or Allen does) fails in our situation, they must likely don’t have it. 

 

 

Josh Allen had absolutely horrible circumstances his rookie year.  One of the worst OLs in the league and no viable receiving weapons.  He had Daboll as OC but Culley as a QB coach and no veteran QB to lean on.  He was thrown into the fire and battled his ass off.  By the end of the year we got a glimpse of what he might be capable of, playing his finest game of the season in the finale vs. Miami.  THEN the Bills began to put the right pieces and supporting system in place.

 

As I said earlier in this thread, I'm not sure Rosen has the competitive fire necessary to succeed in this league.

[C.Biscuit97]

40 minutes ago, eball said:

 

 

Josh Allen had absolutely horrible circumstances his rookie year.  One of the worst OLs in the league and no viable receiving weapons.  He had Daboll as OC but Culley as a QB coach and no veteran QB to lean on.  He was thrown into the fire and battled his ass off.  By the end of the year we got a glimpse of what he might be capable of, playing his finest game of the season in the finale vs. Miami.  THEN the Bills began to put the right pieces and supporting system in place.

 

As I said earlier in this thread, I'm not sure Rosen has the competitive fire necessary to succeed in this league.

I do agree offensively it was much mismanaged.  But they had the number 2 defense and had a veteran nfl OC. Rosen has his OC fired 4 games into the year and got a guy who never did the job on any level (Leftwich, who apparently hated Rosen so much that He just signed him).  And Rosen and Allen had very similar passing stats. 
 

Rosen May very well suck.  But his two teams made sure he did.  I’d say that same exact thing for any young qb in his circumstances.  I think Sam Darnold is being destroyed in NJ.  They have done an awful job being in a good environment.  

[stinky finger]

45 minutes ago, eball said:

 

 

Josh Allen had absolutely horrible circumstances his rookie year.  One of the worst OLs in the league and no viable receiving weapons.  He had Daboll as OC but Culley as a QB coach and no veteran QB to lean on.  He was thrown into the fire and battled his ass off.  By the end of the year we got a glimpse of what he might be capable of, playing his finest game of the season in the finale vs. Miami.  THEN the Bills began to put the right pieces and supporting system in place.

 

As I said earlier in this thread, I'm not sure Rosen has the competitive fire necessary to succeed in this league.

 

Agree - the difference between the 2 regarding competitive fire are world's apart. 

[stinky finger]

2 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I do agree offensively it was much mismanaged.  But they had the number 2 defense and had a veteran nfl OC. Rosen has his OC fired 4 games into the year and got a guy who never did the job on any level (Leftwich, who apparently hated Rosen so much that He just signed him).  And Rosen and Allen had very similar passing stats. 
 

Rosen May very well suck.  But his two teams made sure he did.  I’d say that same exact thing for any young qb in his circumstances.  I think Sam Darnold is being destroyed in NJ.  They have done an awful job being in a good environment.  

 

 

The team defense has nothing to do with determining whether the QB has what it takes. 

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Josh Allen would look just as bad in those circumstances.  It was awful situations.  Now maybe he will suck anywhere, but to pretend like he was given a fair chance to succeed is an absolute lie.

 

More qbs are ruined than developed.  Luckily for us, the Bills are doing a really good job around Allen.

 

I agree with you that more QB's are ruined than developed.

 

I don't completely agree that the Bills "are doing a really good job around Allen".  How could anyone look at his rookie season and not think it was horrid?  He wasn't ready to start, but they failed to have a capable NFL starting QB in front of him.  Peterman, Seriously?   The predictable result was that an unprepared Allen who had scarcely taken 1st team reps all summer and had no mentor in the QB room to show him how to prepare during game week, was thrown into a losing game at halftime and took a pounding. 

The Bills failed to have a decent OL in front of him - even Beane has admitted he could have done more and it was a mistake that he didn't.  There wasn't a running game to speak of, whether because Shady and Ivory had run out of gas or the OL just sucked, I couldn't tell.  McDermott, plaintively, after the GB pounding: "I  expected that at least we'd be able to run the ball."  McDermott and Beane made moves to improve the WR roster, but they turned out to be bad moves in the form of Zay Jones and "Fat Kelvin" Benjamin.  We lacked an NFL quality TE.

 

Then to pile on, we had a first time NFL OC with an overly complex playbook trying to gimmick and gadget his way along.

 

Josh Allen wasn't ruined because he's

1) More mobile and way more of a run threat than anyone thought he was.  As someone put it, a 6'5" 240 lb cannon-armed QB and a 6'5" 240 lb cannon-armed running threat QB are two different beasts

2) No one has ever handed him anything in his football life, so he expects adversity and expects to overcome it.  At heart, he was still a kid off a Cali farm with a crazy NFL dream, and he was just thrilled to be actually living it.

3) He channels Chumba-Wumba "Tubthumping" .  Or as the players say "he a dawg".   And that tends to inspire teammates to want to do more to help him and help the team.

 

I would have to say it still set him back some going into his second season.  He learnt some bad habits he had to un-learn.

 

I don't think Allen would have looked "just as bad" in Rosen's circumstances, though - basically for those 3 reasons.  He wouldn't be showing that he was ticked off about protection breakdowns.  He'd be too busy stiffarming and hurdling LBs to get the first down, or using his feet to extend the play, or yelling to inspire the D.

 

Rosen, on the other hand, was used to being "Chosen Rosen", the kid born to succeed at football.    And he built his success on knowing the right place to go with the football, not on mobility and escapability.  I dunno if he deserves all the crap folks direct his way about lacking fire or work ethic or any of that stuff - but he is what he showed pre-draft.  There were no surprises for under-appreciated speed and mobility or for hidden inspirational leadership qualities. 

He could have been put in a much better situation, and he might have done better if he was.

 

 

[NoSaint]

3 hours ago, NewEra said:

What does this have to do with Rosen being in awful circumstance?  You don’t think a piss poor excuse for a team with god awful offensive lines can have a negative effect on a rookie/1st year qb that has no mobility?

 

sure, some QBs are good enough to overcome having no blocking.  Just because rosen isn’t one of those QBs doesn’t mean he can’t succeed in a good culture with a legit NFL OL.  I’m not saying he’s going to be good but I don’t see how anyone could deem him irrelevant just yet.   

before kicking off his 3rd season he’s on OC number 6 and playbook number 5.

 

Dudes got almost no chance. 

[C.Biscuit97]

21 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I agree with you that more QB's are ruined than developed.

 

I don't completely agree that the Bills "are doing a really good job around Allen".  How could anyone look at his rookie season and not think it was horrid?  He wasn't ready to start, but they failed to have a capable NFL starting QB in front of him.  Peterman, Seriously?   The predictable result was that an unprepared Allen who had scarcely taken 1st team reps all summer and had no mentor in the QB room to show him how to prepare during game week, was thrown into a losing game at halftime and took a pounding. 

The Bills failed to have a decent OL in front of him - even Beane has admitted he could have done more and it was a mistake that he didn't.  There wasn't a running game to speak of, whether because Shady and Ivory had run out of gas or the OL just sucked, I couldn't tell.  McDermott, plaintively, after the GB pounding: "I  expected that at least we'd be able to run the ball."  McDermott and Beane made moves to improve the WR roster, but they turned out to be bad moves in the form of Zay Jones and "Fat Kelvin" Benjamin.  We lacked an NFL quality TE.

 

Then to pile on, we had a first time NFL OC with an overly complex playbook trying to gimmick and gadget his way along.

 

Josh Allen wasn't ruined because he's

1) More mobile and way more of a run threat than anyone thought he was.  As someone put it, a 6'5" 240 lb cannon-armed QB and a 6'5" 240 lb cannon-armed running threat QB are two different beasts

2) No one has ever handed him anything in his football life, so he expects adversity and expects to overcome it.  At heart, he was still a kid off a Cali farm with a crazy NFL dream, and he was just thrilled to be actually living it.

3) He channels Chumba-Wumba "Tubthumping" .  Or as the players say "he a dawg".   And that tends to inspire teammates to want to do more to help him and help the team.

 

I would have to say it still set him back some going into his second season.  He learnt some bad habits he had to un-learn.

 

I don't think Allen would have looked "just as bad" in Rosen's circumstances, though - basically for those 3 reasons.  He wouldn't be showing that he was ticked off about protection breakdowns.  He'd be too busy stiffarming and hurdling LBs to get the first down, or using his feet to extend the play, or yelling to inspire the D.

 

Rosen, on the other hand, was used to being "Chosen Rosen", the kid born to succeed at football.    And he built his success on knowing the right place to go with the football, not on mobility and escapability.  I dunno if he deserves all the crap folks direct his way about lacking fire or work ethic or any of that stuff - but he is what he showed pre-draft.  There were no surprises for under-appreciated speed and mobility or for hidden inspirational leadership qualities. 

He could have been put in a much better situation, and he might have done better if he was.

 

 

Good post and just to counter. 
 

1 - definitely agree about Allen’s situation his rookie year.  I thought the Bills were well on their way to ruining another qb.  But the major difference is that the Bills had the #2 defense and the Cards had #26.  Allen wasn’t in a position to have to win games where Rosen was.  If Allen was playing with the 26 ranked defense, he probably forces more things. They essentially had the same rookie passing stats.  But I do agree that his rushing ability would help him. 
 

2 - I admit I thought some of the Rosen attitude stuff was BS.  But I do agree Allen has an attitude that teammates love.  However if a team fully invested in Rosen and he was allowed to grow as a qb, it would be similar to Rodgers’ attitude. 
 

I saw the guy make special throws on some garbage UCLA teams.  He played for 2 garbage nfl teams that did nothing to help his development.  Maybe he really sucks and he is too immobile for the new nfl.  But I’m not willing to say that after his 2 situations so far.  Hopefully, he gets a chance to learn from Brady and be given a chance to really develop.  I guess we’ll see.  

[C.Biscuit97]

1 hour ago, inaugural balls said:

 

 

The team defense has nothing to do with determining whether the QB has what it takes. 

 

 

This makes no sense.  Would a young qb be better off with the #2 defense or the #26 defense?  Fun fact.  The Bills, who went 10-6, averaged 19 points/ game.  The Cards, who went 3-13, averaged 16 points/ game in Rosen starts in 2018.

 

when you constantly fall behind or have a bad defense, you become one dimensional and have to force things.  How many times has Allen been behind by 2 scores?  It completely changes how you play. 

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

This makes no sense.  Would a young qb be better off with the #2 defense or the #26 defense?  Fun fact.  The Bills, who went 10-6, averaged 19 points/ game.  The Cards, who went 3-13, averaged 16 points/ game in Rosen starts in 2018.

 

when you constantly fall behind or have a bad defense, you become one dimensional and have to force things.  How many times has Allen been behind by 2 scores?  It completely changes how you play. 

You realize a QB has more opportunities to put up stats (or showcase abilities) when they have a bad defense, not fewer, as offenses are statistically more likely to run the ball when the game is close or they're ahead.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

17 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Good post and just to counter. 
 

1 - definitely agree about Allen’s situation his rookie year.  I thought the Bills were well on their way to ruining another qb.  But the major difference is that the Bills had the #2 defense and the Cards had #26.  Allen wasn’t in a position to have to win games where Rosen was.  If Allen was playing with the 26 ranked defense, he probably forces more things. They essentially had the same rookie passing stats.  But I do agree that his rushing ability would help him. 
 

2 - I admit I thought some of the Rosen attitude stuff was BS.  But I do agree Allen has an attitude that teammates love.  However if a team fully invested in Rosen and he was allowed to grow as a qb, it would be similar to Rodgers’ attitude. 
 

I saw the guy make special throws on some garbage UCLA teams.  He played for 2 garbage nfl teams that did nothing to help his development.  Maybe he really sucks and he is too immobile for the new nfl.  But I’m not willing to say that after his 2 situations so far.  Hopefully, he gets a chance to learn from Brady and be given a chance to really develop.  I guess we’ll see.  

 

One thing when I was a "wrong Josh"er and wanted us to draft Rosen - I did NOT appreciate the "IT" factor.

 

There is no question that whatever "IT" is, Josh Allen has "IT", in spades.  The operational definition of "IT" - the ability to get people to buy in, to want to invest in you, to want to help you and do things to make you better, because you're likeable and make people laugh and they're drawn to you and want to spend time with you, and because you're the sort of person who cares about other people and wants things to be better for them, too.