stinky finger Posted September 7, 2020 Posted September 7, 2020 2 hours ago, 3rdand12 said: Firm believer in "environment" is a major factor in a Rookie QB short and long term success. and that our Josh is the right Josh at the right time and in the right place. Go Bills Agree. Proof positive? JA helps to create this environment. It appears JR hasn't. 1
stinky finger Posted September 7, 2020 Posted September 7, 2020 2 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Wilson had the number 1 defense for his 4 seasons and it slipped to 3 the next year! https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/sea/ the only time his defense was below 13th was last year in his 7th year! Seattle is routinely the most balanced team in thE nfl. And the flip side is a good environment can hide a bad qb (Sanchez, Bortles, Mitch T). that’s why I love our schedule this year. We have some real qbs and offenses. As much as some have anointed Allen, we averaged 19 points/ game. That won’t cut it this year. JA has been anointed? I think there are many more optimistic and hopeful. Anointed? I think that's just your -ummm - JA disenchantment shining through ad nauseam.
GoBills808 Posted September 7, 2020 Posted September 7, 2020 2 hours ago, NoSaint said: it’s an odd parallel to compare Drew Brees or time Brady in their prime to a rookie developing qb for how a guy can develop. Are you under the impression those guys had bad defenses, bad offensive lines, and massive coaching instability around them early? Drew is the only one on your list that wasn’t handed the keys to a pretty good team out of the gate. There's no way you can read through what I posted and come to that conclusion honestly. Are you under the impression that I was the one that brought those QBs into the discussion? To reiterate because it seems you missed my point: those quarterbacks would have been eventually been great regardless of the quality of their teams' defenses early in their careers. A team's defense has little to no influence on how its quarterback develops.
NoSaint Posted September 7, 2020 Posted September 7, 2020 2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: There's no way you can read through what I posted and come to that conclusion honestly. Are you under the impression that I was the one that brought those QBs into the discussion? To reiterate because it seems you missed my point: those quarterbacks would have been eventually been great regardless of the quality of their teams' defenses early in their careers. A team's defense has little to no influence on how its quarterback develops. Other than tying to favorable field position, playing with leads, and coaching stability 2
GoBills808 Posted September 7, 2020 Posted September 7, 2020 Just now, NoSaint said: Other than tying to favorable field position, playing with leads, and coaching stability Your contention is that short fields and playing with a lead is conducive to quarterback development?
NoSaint Posted September 7, 2020 Posted September 7, 2020 15 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: Your contention is that short fields and playing with a lead is conducive to quarterback development? your contention is long fields and trailing doesn’t put more stress on qbs? Yes, I think favorable situations are conducive to putting a young quarterback in better positions to succeed. The successes are bigger and the mistakes hurt less. Id also say having a good running game keeping you in solid down and distance situations is nice. playing within a system instead of having to play hero ball is great for development.
GoBills808 Posted September 7, 2020 Posted September 7, 2020 Just now, NoSaint said: your contention is long fields and trailing doesn’t put more stress on qbs? Yes, I think favorable situations are conducive to putting a young quarterback in better positions to succeed. The successes are bigger and the mistakes hurt less. Id also say having a good running game keeping you in solid down and distance situations is nice. playing within a system instead of having to play hero ball is great for development. No. You're just saying things that have nothing to do with what we were discussing. My contention is that defense has nothing to do with QB development. Short field, long field, up by 50, down by 3, doesn't matter...there's no correlation between how good your QB turns out and the quality of your defense early in his career. 1
NoSaint Posted September 7, 2020 Posted September 7, 2020 7 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: No. You're just saying things that have nothing to do with what we were discussing. My contention is that defense has nothing to do with QB development. Short field, long field, up by 50, down by 3, doesn't matter...there's no correlation between how good your QB turns out and the quality of your defense early in his career. clearly it’s not some magic bullet solely determinate force that cannot be overcome... but I don’t think it’s terribly controversial to say good situations lend themselves to good outcomes and good outcomes can connect through to a better situation to grow within. sure there’s always butt fumble who flopped even with a supporting cast buying him time or mahomes scoring at will in shootouts but generally surrounding a young qb with a great pieces, including talent on either side of the ball in the coaching staff and front office, is advantageous to him having the best chance to succeed. 1
HappyDays Posted September 7, 2020 Posted September 7, 2020 2 hours ago, NoSaint said: So you think if his coordinator was fired mid season and then head coach at the end of the season the super raw polarizing prospect would shined so bright that no organization would move on for their own pick to fit their own plans? He improved throughout his rookie year throwing to Kelvin Benjamin and Zay Jones. It's disingenuous to say he would have been treated the same way as Rosen, who showed practically no upside his rookie year. Allen was flat out a better player as a rookie and showed growth. Also my impression is that behind the scenes Rosen is not a good teammate or leader. That sort of thing matters to a new regime. 1 1
Behindenemylines Posted September 8, 2020 Posted September 8, 2020 On 9/4/2020 at 2:53 PM, Back2Buff said: I don't get the narrative out there that he wasn't given a fair opportunity to succeed. He was put onto two teams that had very little QB competition and couldn't hold the job with either team. Last year, Miami got instantly better with Fitz as QB and became respectable. He was really bad with them. He stinks, why is that so hard for people to say? Agreed. Also from what has been reported and his personal narrative through and after the draft and even after he’s an ass. A total self centered ass. Never had the heart for this game
3rdand12 Posted September 8, 2020 Posted September 8, 2020 On 9/7/2020 at 3:43 PM, C.Biscuit97 said: Wilson had the number 1 defense for his 4 seasons and it slipped to 3 the next year! https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/sea/ the only time his defense was below 13th was last year in his 7th year! Seattle is routinely the most balanced team in thE nfl. And the flip side is a good environment can hide a bad qb (Sanchez, Bortles, Mitch T). that’s why I love our schedule this year. We have some real qbs and offenses. As much as some have anointed Allen, we averaged 19 points/ game. That won’t cut it this year. nor should it be expected to : ) On 9/7/2020 at 5:43 PM, inaugural balls said: Agree. Proof positive? JA helps to create this environment. It appears JR hasn't. Josh is a great fit for the Blue Collar team McBeanes is creating. Go Bills
3rdand12 Posted September 8, 2020 Posted September 8, 2020 On 9/7/2020 at 6:46 PM, NoSaint said: your contention is long fields and trailing doesn’t put more stress on qbs? Yes, I think favorable situations are conducive to putting a young quarterback in better positions to succeed. The successes are bigger and the mistakes hurt less. Id also say having a good running game keeping you in solid down and distance situations is nice. playing within a system instead of having to play hero ball is great for development. and why having both Moss and Devin is going to help "Our " Josh progress this year especially : ) raising the bar Allen
NoSaint Posted September 8, 2020 Posted September 8, 2020 4 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said: and why having both Moss and Devin is going to help "Our " Josh progress this year especially : ) raising the bar Allen Anything short of excellent will be a red flag with the team he has around him. Quietly optimistic but won’t be trying to hear any excuses either. this might be the best roster he gets to play with
3rdand12 Posted September 8, 2020 Posted September 8, 2020 Just now, NoSaint said: Anything short of excellent will be a red flag with the team he has around him. Quietly optimistic but won’t be trying to hear any excuses either. this might be the best roster he gets to play with No question about where this roster stands. Coaching might get a nod as well overall. I have faith he will step up . His ceiling is pretty high. But still a WIP. Go Bills
Thurman#1 Posted September 9, 2020 Posted September 9, 2020 (edited) On 9/5/2020 at 3:53 AM, Back2Buff said: I don't get the narrative out there that he wasn't given a fair opportunity to succeed. He was put onto two teams that had very little QB competition and couldn't hold the job with either team. Last year, Miami got instantly better with Fitz as QB and became respectable. He was really bad with them. He stinks, why is that so hard for people to say? The reason people say he wasn't given a fair chance is that he wasn't. Now, it could also be true at the same time that maybe he stinks. Both could be true. But there are PLENTY of terrific QBs out there who if they'd been given only one year to win the job and then replaced after only a year by a rookie taken in the top two picks would have likely not nearly accomplished what they have. Brees couldn't beat out Doug Flutie his first year. And he stunk up the joint the next two years as well. Rosen really was in crappy situations. That said, maybe he stinks. Hard to be sure, though. Crappy situations can ruin QBs, or at the very least greatly (really? you can't use ###### as a verb? OK, I'll switch it out) slow their progress. Edited September 9, 2020 by Thurman#1
Thurman#1 Posted September 9, 2020 Posted September 9, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, NoSaint said: Anything short of excellent will be a red flag with the team he has around him. Quietly optimistic but won’t be trying to hear any excuses either. this might be the best roster he gets to play with Nah. Allen doesn't need to be excellent this year. He needs to show significant improvement. If he does that, there'll be no red flags. On 9/8/2020 at 7:26 AM, GoBills808 said: Your contention is that short fields and playing with a lead is conducive to quarterback development? In that it affects fan response, amount of pressure, expectations, play calls, game plans and almost certainly self-confidence and the confidence of the coaches - who are playing for their jobs - of course it is. Not that it's one of the bigger factors, clearly it's not. But is it a factor? Of course. Most things about the team are, really. Edited September 9, 2020 by Thurman#1
4merper4mer Posted September 9, 2020 Posted September 9, 2020 On September 7, 2020 at 3:43 PM, C.Biscuit97 said: that’s why I love our schedule this year. We have some real qbs and offenses. As much as some have anointed Allen, we averaged 19 points/ game. That won’t cut it this year. How glorious it will be for you if Allen fails and you get to be I told you so King. WTF? 1
Lieutenant Aldo Raine Posted September 9, 2020 Posted September 9, 2020 50 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said: How glorious it will be for you if Allen fails and you get to be I told you so King. WTF? His (@C.Biscuit97) 19 pts per game talking point has no merit when he refuses to address the lack of points (TDs) production coming from our running backs. 8 total rushing TDs by our RBs in two years (32 games). That's 1 rushing TD per every 4 games by our RBs (1:4). Josh has 17 rushing TDs in the past two years alone (1:2). Allen will get his rushing TDs, but if the RBs could at least double their TD production, the points per game would be improved.
Behindenemylines Posted September 10, 2020 Posted September 10, 2020 21 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: The reason people say he wasn't given a fair chance is that he wasn't. Now, it could also be true at the same time that maybe he stinks. Both could be true. But there are PLENTY of terrific QBs out there who if they'd been given only one year to win the job and then replaced after only a year by a rookie taken in the top two picks would have likely not nearly accomplished what they have. Brees couldn't beat out Doug Flutie his first year. And he stunk up the joint the next two years as well. Rosen really was in crappy situations. That said, maybe he stinks. Hard to be sure, though. Crappy situations can ruin QBs, or at the very least greatly (really? you can't use ###### as a verb? OK, I'll switch it out) slow their progress. Wrong 💯. Rosen was given ample opportunity to prove himself. That doesn’t mean he wins playoff games or the super bowl but show he has room to grow and can lead. He proved nothing to team leaders or teammates on any team he’s been on. I would believe his attitude is a cancer on the team and his skill set doesn’t compensate for it. You don’t go from a first round pick to the practice squad without major issues...period.
dma0034 Posted September 10, 2020 Posted September 10, 2020 Honestly thought Rosen was going to backup Tom Brady at the end of last year. Thought it would be with the Patriots though.
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