Presidential Debates 2020

[The Frankish Reich]

22 minutes ago, westside2 said:

Why do you hate Trump so much? Seriously, I don't mean for this to come across as attacking you. I just want to understand the deep level of hatred for the President of the United states. I agree you don't have to like him, but such hate I've never seen in politics in my life. I jut want to understand why you feel the way you do. 

Hate? No. I thought he was a rather comical figure, sometimes quite entertaining before he became president. I just think he's in way, way, way over his head, and his instinct now is purely toward self-preservation: avoid going out as a one-term "loser," avoid possible prosecution post-office (which is why I think a lot of investigations are actually counterproductive), etc. 

[Deranged Rhino]

1 hour ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Let's set aside "mental abilities" for the moment. (I think they are both in decline.) 

Really, "physicial abilities?" I assume the argument is that somehow Trump -- an obese man who has problems navigating a ramp or drinking from a cup -- is somehow more physically fit than Biden? Based on what?

 

Joe called a lid at 9:50am again today so he can nap all day. Trump is doing back to back rallies where he'll speak and "perform" for 2+ hours each time. 

 

If you really do not see the difference in vitality and energy between the two, then I'd suggest you're incapable of being objective. 

[The Frankish Reich]

1 minute ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

Joe called a lid at 9:50am again today so he can nap all day. Trump is doing back to back rallies where he'll speak and "perform" for 2+ hours each time. 

 

If you really do not see the difference in vitality and energy between the two, then I'd suggest you're incapable of being objective. 

I've been through the mental capacity thing before. And I've been clear: both are far from at the top of their games. With perhaps very rare exceptions, I don't think it's wise to elect anyone in his/her mid-70s.

But physically ... let me turn the question back on you: you clearly don't see that one is very fit for a 77 year old whereas one is grossly overweight? I mean, it's not hard to see ... Joe was "caught" (probably set up) riding a bike. Sure, maybe he rode a half mile along a flat beach boardwalk. But ask yourself: could Trump even get on a bike? 

[Westside]

1 minute ago, The Frankish Reich said:

I've been through the mental capacity thing before. And I've been clear: both are far from at the top of their games. With perhaps very rare exceptions, I don't think it's wise to elect anyone in his/her mid-70s.

But physically ... let me turn the question back on you: you clearly don't see that one is very fit for a 77 year old whereas one is grossly overweight? I mean, it's not hard to see ... Joe was "caught" (probably set up) riding a bike. Sure, maybe he rode a half mile along a flat beach boardwalk. But ask yourself: could Trump even get on a bike? 

Yeah, but Bidens brain is mush. That Trumps physical abilities. Pun intended.😆

[Deranged Rhino]

Just now, The Frankish Reich said:

I've been through the mental capacity thing before. And I've been clear: both are far from at the top of their games. With perhaps very rare exceptions, I don't think it's wise to elect anyone in his/her mid-70s.

But physically ... let me turn the question back on you: you clearly don't see that one is very fit for a 77 year old whereas one is grossly overweight? I mean, it's not hard to see ... Joe was "caught" (probably set up) riding a bike. Sure, maybe he rode a half mile along a flat beach boardwalk. But ask yourself: could Trump even get on a bike? 

 

As I said, perhaps it's just that you're incapable of being objective. If you don't think that it requires someone to be fit to stand and deliver a full weekend of rally speeches, on top of maintaining the grueling schedule of POTUS (with travel thrown in), then you've likely never been on stage. Joe cannot even do two full days of campaigning in a row without take a full week off to rest. 

 

That's not because they're hiding Joe. It's because he can't match Trump's energy or pace -- because Trump is much healthier than Joe is. By leaps and bounds. 

[US Egg]

6 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

As I said, perhaps it's just that you're incapable of being objective.

[The Frankish Reich]

11 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

As I said, perhaps it's just that you're incapable of being objective. If you don't think that it requires someone to be fit to stand and deliver a full weekend of rally speeches, on top of maintaining the grueling schedule of POTUS (with travel thrown in), then you've likely never been on stage. Joe cannot even do two full days of campaigning in a row without take a full week off to rest. 

 

That's not because they're hiding Joe. It's because he can't match Trump's energy or pace -- because Trump is much healthier than Joe is. By leaps and bounds. 

Why would a guy with a solid -- and as stable as any in history -- 7-8 point lead in the polls feel that he has to do anything other than what he's already doing? Because his opponent (or a bunch of guys posting on the internet) wants him to? Does a football team with possession, a 2 score lead, and 5 minutes to go get goaded into passing 3 times because the middle linebacker is screaming, "be a man, throw the ball?"

Biden started to emerge when the news cycle turned toward riots and law and order. Now it's back to coronavirus, and Trump is on the defensive. The old rule is "don't get in the way of your opponent when he's self-destructing."

And you didn't answer my question: for Trump, riding around in a golf cart and getting out to swing a club maybe 90 times (+ apparently a dozen or so mulligans) is "exercise" -- could you ever imagine him on a bike?

 

[Deranged Rhino]

15 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Why would a guy with a solid -- and as stable as any in history -- 7-8 point lead in the polls feel that he has to do anything other than what he's already doing?

 

You lead off by dodging the topic we were actually discussing -- and do so by overlooking he's called 9am lids multiple times in the past several weeks. You're also ignoring that the race has tightened to within the margin of error, the Biden team announced before Labor Day that their "hidin' Biden" strategy was over -- yet they immediately fell back into it because Joe couldn't physically keep up with the campaign schedule. These are facts, not speculations. 

 

15 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Because his opponent (or a bunch of guys posting on the internet) wants him to?

 

Nah, because his internal polling shows he's cratering. His surrogates all want him out there more -- but he can't do it physically. 

 

15 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Does a football team with possession, a 2 score lead, and 5 minutes to go get goaded into passing 3 times because the middle linebacker is screaming, "be a man, throw the ball?"

 

It's an old saying in football: prevent defense prevents you from winning. You're trying to do all you can to avoid discussing the actual issue -- Joe isn't mentally or physically up to the task of campaigning. Whereas Trump has been keeping 20+ hour days and giving multiple speeches and press conferences (on top of his travel and work schedule) for his entire term -- more so now that we're in the final sprint of the campaign. 

 

15 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Biden started to emerge when the news cycle turned toward riots and law and order.

 

Incorrect. He started to emerge when the polls showed he had to. They still show he has to -- but he's still hidin'. Because he's physically unable to sustain the needed activity of a presidential campaign. This is obvious to all who are looking objectively at this. Take a step back and reassess without a partisan lens. You'll be surprised. 

 

15 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Now it's back to coronavirus, and Trump is on the defensive.

 

False. The polls and news cycle do not support this take. It's incorrect and you're just trying to spin away from the issue now which is, again, that Joe is still on this schedule despite the polls and internal numbers warning him to change because he's unable to do the job. Physically or mentally. 

 

15 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

The old rule is "don't get in the way of your opponent when he's self-destructing."

 

Which Joe has been doing in slow motion for the past three months. It will only accelerate now that he's forced to debate. 

 

15 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

And you didn't answer my question: for Trump, riding around in a golf cart and getting out to swing a club maybe 90 times (+ apparently a dozen or so mulligans) is "exercise" -- could you ever imagine him on a bike?

 

It's a canard. Like I said, I see Trump's energy and stamina in the schedule he maintains. Compared to Joe's, Joe can ride all the bikes he wants but it does nothing to disprove the notion that he's physically unable to match Trump's pace. He's proven he cannot. 

 

Edited September 12, 2020 by Deranged Rhino

[Niagara]

2 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Let's set aside "mental abilities" for the moment. (I think they are both in decline.) 

Really, "physicial abilities?" I assume the argument is that somehow Trump -- an obese man who has problems navigating a ramp or drinking from a cup -- is somehow more physically fit than Biden? Based on what?

Let's not. You must not have read the article. Biden's Kanosha trip was a disaster. It is a mental job. Woodrow Wilson was not up to the job in the end, while Roosevelt performed well in a wheelchair up until the end. No one wants Harris as President.

[Deranged Rhino]

44 minutes ago, Niagara said:

Let's not. You must not have read the article. Biden's Kanosha trip was a disaster. It is a mental job. Woodrow Wilson was not up to the job in the end, while Roosevelt performed well in a wheelchair up until the end. No one wants Harris as President.

 

Not even her own state.  

[The Frankish Reich]

DR, what happened to “show your work?”  I showed you that Biden’s polling lead has been as stable and consistent as any in history, and it’s outside the margin of error. Sure, some battleground state polls are closer, but not that close in enough  

Hey, maybe Biden is miscalculating, Hillary style, and his infrequent campaign trips will backfire. That’s what you want to happen! You and the propaganda machines you trust just making up facts about how Biden is incapable of campaigning. In retrospect it

was a hoax regarding Hillary in 2016 (she’s far more lucid than either of these guys 4 years on), but here you go falling for it again. 
(There’s another thread here about how TRUMP is not well. I am not participating in it as that too is uninformed speculation. I find refraining from idle speculation to be good life advice. You should consider it.)
Oh, and I guess you do agree that Trump is incapable of anything traditionally called “exercise.”

[BillsToast]

On 9/2/2020 at 11:57 AM, B-Man said:

 

I still wish that they would get away from media types being the moderators, but I guess it will never happen.

 

 

 

Why? The media is impartial, unbiased and fair to both sides of the argument. 

[keepthefaith]

8 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Why would a guy with a solid -- and as stable as any in history -- 7-8 point lead in the polls feel that he has to do anything other than what he's already doing?

 

 

 

Well, this is exactly how Hillary lost for one.  She was showing signs of poor health/stamina late in the campaign and did little campaigning in key states.  She was always ahead in the polls. 

 

Joe isn't just laying low.  He's almost never taking questions in public and when he does they're likely scripted (question and answer).  When he does speak freely there are frequent "what the hell are you trying to say" moments.  He had a similar strategy in the primary but had the protection of the party in the form of opponents ending campaigns due to diminished funding or the orchestrated demise.  He's running against a well funded incumbent who is out working him.  Albeit one that is prone to his own verbal blunders and one that is also old. 

 

I've had older relatives that could jog and play tennis that couldn't remember what they ate for breakfast when lunchtime came around.  Joe reminds me of them.  The debates will tell us a lot if he's permitted and asked to develop and speak his own thoughts on the fly.  

Edited September 13, 2020 by keepthefaith

[3rdnlng]

1 hour ago, The Frankish Reich said:

DR, what happened to “show your work?”  I showed you that Biden’s polling lead has been as stable and consistent as any in history, and it’s outside the margin of error. Sure, some battleground state polls are closer, but not that close in enough  

Hey, maybe Biden is miscalculating, Hillary style, and his infrequent campaign trips will backfire. That’s what you want to happen! You and the propaganda machines you trust just making up facts about how Biden is incapable of campaigning. In retrospect it

was a hoax regarding Hillary in 2016 (she’s far more lucid than either of these guys 4 years on), but here you go falling for it again. 
(There’s another thread here about how TRUMP is not well. I am not participating in it as that too is uninformed speculation. I find refraining from idle speculation to be good life advice. You should consider it.)
Oh, and I guess you do agree that Trump is incapable of anything traditionally called “exercise.”

Do not believe the polls. First they under poll republicans by about 10%. All of the mainstream polls typically poll 24-25% of R's while polling about 35% for D's. Also, republicans are typically reluctant to share their preferences to some schmuck on the phone, especially when there are so many people who explode with the mention of Trump. 

 

I keep seeing that Trump is substantially behind in Pennsylvania as far as polls go. In the past two weeks I've spent three full days traveling all around the central and western part of that state to the tune of about 1100 miles. Everywhere I went I saw Trump signs, some quite substantial and some custom. The only communities that I saw more than one Biden sign is it was a county seat, indicating that there were government workers in the community. Anyway, from my viewpoint Pittsburgh is a wash and if Philadelphia and its suburbs don't have more Biden voters than residents then Trump takes PA hands down.

[The Frankish Reich]

1 hour ago, 3rdnlng said:

all around the central and western part of that state

“Pennsylvania is Philadelphia and Pittsburgh with Alabama in between.”

— James Carville

 

In other words, this:

https://www.businessinsider.com/literary-digest-poll-1936-election-wrong-selection-bias-2016-9

 

And specifically (maybe these are "shy Trump voters" -- that's what he has to hope for):

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/29/upshot/polls-political-party-republicans.html

"Mr. Trump’s problem wasn’t the number of people who said they voted for him last time: It was that only 86 percent of those who said they voted for him last time said they would do so again. Perhaps there’s a way the poll could have the right number of voters who said they voted for Mr. Trump last time, but not this time. It would have to be an awfully specific form of polling error."

[The Frankish Reich]

13 hours ago, Niagara said:

Although he and Trump are roughly the same age, right now they are worlds apart in terms of their mental and physical abilities. 

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-speech-veterans-student-debt-isis-a9074261.html

I keep reading that Joe Biden slurs words, stumbles over words, etc. And that's right! But anyone who fails to see that we've got two doddering old men running for president just isn't paying attention, or (sadly) is just too clouded by partisanship to admit the truth. Here's a pretty damn accurate phonetic transcription of some recent flubs on the other side (transcripts are usually kind, cleaning up the mispronunciations):

 

Touting the US military’s global pre-eminence, Mr Trump appeared to repeatedly struggle with the word “forces”, before mangling the name of Douglas MacArthur, a prominent Second World War general.  “The members of our armed forcef (sic) I, and you understand that very well - the members of our armed forcer (sic) have always lived by the word of Douglas Magarth (sic): ‘In war, there is no substitute for victory’."

 

Towards the end of his speech, Mr Trump grappled with the words “applicable” and “obstacles”.

“Today, I'm also calling upon all 50 states to immediately waive all appliculble (sic) state taxes as well,” Mr Trump said regarding veterans, before moving onto praising a disabled veteran named Katherine, who he misnamed "Karen".

“Despite these obselels (sic), Karen is now pursuing a degree at the University of Nevada.”

 

And of course that follows this:

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/510501-trump-struggles-with-pronouncing-yosemites-at-bill-signing

OK, that could be excusable in the abstract. But it was a speech about a National Parks bill! Other than Yellowstone, what more famous national park is there? And he never pronounced it even close to correctly. In fact it got worse the more he tried. As if he had never heard the name or seen the word in print before. Seth Meyers nailed it:

“Yikes,” laughed Meyers after playing the clip of Trump’s error. “The worst part is you know one of his aides grabbed him before the speech and said, ‘Look, there’s a tricky word in here, so just so you know it’s pronounced si-kwoi-uh. Sequoia.’ And then that guy was backstage saying, ‘I’m sorry, I didn’t think he’d beef it on Yosemite. The guy loves cartoons. Fits of rage.’”

 

Of course,  I'm not privy to any medical information, but I've long suspected that the oranges [hah! I'm proud of that one] of his speech problems lie in some weird combination of undiagnosed (unadmitted?) dyslexia combined with Queens damage and (more recently) mental decline.

 

 

 

Edited September 13, 2020 by The Frankish Reich

[3rdnlng]

8 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said:

“Pennsylvania is Philadelphia and Pittsburgh with Alabama in between.”

— James Carville

 

In other words, this:

https://www.businessinsider.com/literary-digest-poll-1936-election-wrong-selection-bias-2016-9

 

And specifically (maybe these are "shy Trump voters" -- that's what he has to hope for):

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/29/upshot/polls-political-party-republicans.html

"Mr. Trump’s problem wasn’t the number of people who said they voted for him last time: It was that only 86 percent of those who said they voted for him last time said they would do so again. Perhaps there’s a way the poll could have the right number of voters who said they voted for Mr. Trump last time, but not this time. It would have to be an awfully specific form of polling error."

Carville is a has been and obviously hasn't paid much attention to the reality on the ground lately. Gary Johnson took a big chunk of the votes in Allegheny County in 2016. There's no 3rd party candidate of any stature this time around and I have a hard time seeing a libertarian voting for Biden. Trump will do better this time and with the obvious excitement that his voters possess he will take the state. 

 

The polls that you are seeing are basically push polls designed to tamp down enthusiasm for the media's least favorite candidate. 

[Tiberius]

8 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-speech-veterans-student-debt-isis-a9074261.html

I keep reading that Joe Biden slurs words, stumbles over words, etc. And that's right! But anyone who fails to see that we've got two doddering old men running for president just isn't paying attention, or (sadly) is just too clouded by partisanship to admit the truth. Here's a pretty damn accurate phonetic transcription of some recent flubs on the other side (transcripts are usually kind, cleaning up the mispronunciations):

 

Touting the US military’s global pre-eminence, Mr Trump appeared to repeatedly struggle with the word “forces”, before mangling the name of Douglas MacArthur, a prominent Second World War general.  “The members of our armed forcef (sic) I, and you understand that very well - the members of our armed forcer (sic) have always lived by the word of Douglas Magarth (sic): ‘In war, there is no substitute for victory’."

 

Towards the end of his speech, Mr Trump grappled with the words “applicable” and “obstacles”.

“Today, I'm also calling upon all 50 states to immediately waive all appliculble (sic) state taxes as well,” Mr Trump said regarding veterans, before moving onto praising a disabled veteran named Katherine, who he misnamed "Karen".

“Despite these obselels (sic), Karen is now pursuing a degree at the University of Nevada.”

 

And of course that follows this:

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/510501-trump-struggles-with-pronouncing-yosemites-at-bill-signing

OK, that could be excusable in the abstract. But it was a speech about a National Parks bill! Other than Yellowstone, what more famous national park is there? And he never pronounced it even close to correctly. In fact it got worse the more he tried. As if he had never heard the name or seen the word in print before. Seth Meyers nailed it:

“Yikes,” laughed Meyers after playing the clip of Trump’s error. “The worst part is you know one of his aides grabbed him before the speech and said, ‘Look, there’s a tricky word in here, so just so you know it’s pronounced si-kwoi-uh. Sequoia.’ And then that guy was backstage saying, ‘I’m sorry, I didn’t think he’d beef it on Yosemite. The guy loves cartoons. Fits of rage.’”

 

Of course,  I'm not privy to any medical information, but I've long suspected that the oranges [hah! I'm proud of that one] of his speech problems lie in some weird combination of undiagnosed (unadmitted?) dyslexia combined with Queens damage and (more recently) mental decline.

 

 

 

He seems to rely on the fact he drones on and on with nonsense that no one pays attention to what he is actually trying to say

[US Egg]

4 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

He seems to rely on the fact he drones on and on with nonsense that no one pays attention to what he is actually trying to say

Besides Trump is evil, Joe ain't spewing any facts.

 

.....besides, my name is Joe and apparently I'm running for President.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

5 minutes ago, I am the egg man said:

Besides Trump is evil, Joe ain't spewing any facts.

 

.....besides, my name is Joe and apparently I'm running for President.

 

...you're on my mail in ballot...IF the USPS picks it up.............