Why is Marcel Dareus still a free agent?

[The Frankish Reich]

24 minutes ago, Logic said:

Because he's a turd.

Also...holy hell is that 2011 draft depressing to look at. I know WHY we took Dareus. We desperately needed to get better at run-stopping at the time. But holy cow...could've had a All-Pro at Edge, DL, WR, or LT who'd still be playing at a high level.

 

							Misc			Approx Val			Passing					Rushing			Receiving
Rnd	Pick	Tm	Player	Pos	Age	To	AP1	PB	St	CarAV	DrAV	G	Cmp	Att	Yds	TD	Int	Att	Yds	TD	Rec	Yds	TD	Solo	Int	Sk	College/Univ
1	1	CAR	Cam Newton	QB	22	2019	1	3	8	104	104	125	2371	3980	29041	182	108	934	4806	58	1	33	0				Auburn	College Stats
1	2	DEN	Von Miller	LB	22	2019	3	8	9	98	98	135	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	380	2	106.0	Texas A&M	College Stats
1	3	BUF	Marcell Dareus	DT	21	2019	1	2	7	56	46	121	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	255		37.5	Alabama	College Stats
1	4	CIN	A.J. Green	WR	23	2018	0	7	8	68	68	111	0	0	0	0	0	11	93	0	602	8907	63				Georgia	College Stats
1	5	ARI	Patrick Peterson	DB	21	2019	3	8	9	85	85	138	1	1	17	0	0	7	34	0	10	64	0	395	25	4.0	LSU	College Stats
1	6	ATL	Julio Jones	WR	22	2019	2	7	8	94	94	126	0	0	0	0	0	19	118	0	797	12125	57				Alabama	College Stats
1	7	SFO	Aldon Smith	DE	21	2015	1	1	3	27	25	59	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	141	1	47.5	Missouri	College Stats
1	8	TEN	Jake Locker	QB	23	2014	0	0	1	15	15	30	408	709	4967	27	22	95	644	5	0	0	0				Washington	College Stats
1	9	DAL	Tyron Smith	T	20	2019	2	7	9	84	84	131	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0				USC	College Stats
1	10	JAX	Blaine Gabbert	QB	21	2018	0	0	2	16	7	56	842	1498	9063	48	47	177	631	3	1	-16	0				Missouri	College Stats
1	11	HOU	J.J. Watt	DE	22	2019	5	5	8	98	98	112	0	0

First thought: good Lord, we blew it.

Second thought: you know that we would've taken Gabbert if we hadn't been sold on Dareus.

[Not at the table Karlos]

37 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

Im sure Patsie #1 fan Rodak really enjoyed getting to write articles like this one back in the day before this team had quality on both sides of the ball...

“I'm not going to be lazy the second half because I'm mad.“

https://www.espn.com/blog/nfceast/post/_/id/60146/dareus-apologizes-for-latest-benching

The just set your alarm clock for the season and just get up and be on time thing was funny to me. I used to live near the Mobil on main and winspear in university heights and would see marcel there regularly at 2-3 am taking ridiculous amounts of money out of the atm. It had a $600 limit at a time and he would be there for 15-20 mins taking money out. 
 

[Augie]

10 minutes ago, billsfan714 said:

His stats went downhill quickly after getting paid,  his sacks and TFL that last few years have been pretty dismal. 

 

That is why you spend so much time and effort trying to find guys who truly love the game. Character matters.  I like our current FO in making those determinations. 

 

It may seem at times we put character ahead of talent, but it’s a balancing act with the roster and the locker room. Nobody is perfect, but I think they know exactly what they are doing. 

 

 

.

Edited September 1, 2020 by Augie

[KD in CA]

57 minutes ago, Magox said:

I was told that we made a colossal mistake trading him and dumping his huge salary as quickly as we could by the experts of TBD.  ?‍♂️

That’s right, the experts here knew right away that clueless McBeane “traded away all the talent” when Big Puff, Sammy, Tyrod and Darby left town.

[PromoTheRobot]

56 minutes ago, KollegeStudnet said:

He has been through a lot. Would not be surprised if the Pats get him at league minimum

 

Why not? One year deal and earn a FREE 3rd  round comp pick!

[NewEra]

22 minutes ago, Mango said:

I still think it was a mistake because

 

1. He was still productive at the time

2. We wouldn’t have been in “cap hell” had we just waited a few months. 
3. Its a coaches job to work with tough athletes, not cast them aside in short order to find easier ones. Marrone hasn’t been able to manage Dareus or 60% of his roster because he sucks. 
 

That doesn’t mean that he should be an all pro. Or even that good. But cutting him that quickly created a large hole, where we had to over pay his replacement, and eat his salary, all while he was still productive at the time. 
 

I would be been fine letting him go the year after. It would have halved his dead cap space. 

What if I said we trade Dareus for Tyler Bass Booten?  If he turns out to be our kicker for the foreseeable future, it’s a huge win

[Royale with Cheese]

No way McDermott allows him back at OBD other than on the visiting team.  He is the exact player he hates...lazy.  

There's a better chance of Richie Incognito coming back.

[Rc2catch]

44 minutes ago, Logic said:

Because he's a turd.

Also...holy hell is that 2011 draft depressing to look at. I know WHY we took Dareus. We desperately needed to get better at run-stopping at the time. But holy cow...could've had a All-Pro at Edge, DL, WR, or LT who'd still be playing at a high level.

 

							Misc			Approx Val			Passing					Rushing			Receiving
Rnd	Pick	Tm	Player	Pos	Age	To	AP1	PB	St	CarAV	DrAV	G	Cmp	Att	Yds	TD	Int	Att	Yds	TD	Rec	Yds	TD	Solo	Int	Sk	College/Univ
1	1	CAR	Cam Newton	QB	22	2019	1	3	8	104	104	125	2371	3980	29041	182	108	934	4806	58	1	33	0				Auburn	College Stats
1	2	DEN	Von Miller	LB	22	2019	3	8	9	98	98	135	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	380	2	106.0	Texas A&M	College Stats
1	3	BUF	Marcell Dareus	DT	21	2019	1	2	7	56	46	121	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	255		37.5	Alabama	College Stats
1	4	CIN	A.J. Green	WR	23	2018	0	7	8	68	68	111	0	0	0	0	0	11	93	0	602	8907	63				Georgia	College Stats
1	5	ARI	Patrick Peterson	DB	21	2019	3	8	9	85	85	138	1	1	17	0	0	7	34	0	10	64	0	395	25	4.0	LSU	College Stats
1	6	ATL	Julio Jones	WR	22	2019	2	7	8	94	94	126	0	0	0	0	0	19	118	0	797	12125	57				Alabama	College Stats
1	7	SFO	Aldon Smith	DE	21	2015	1	1	3	27	25	59	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	141	1	47.5	Missouri	College Stats
1	8	TEN	Jake Locker	QB	23	2014	0	0	1	15	15	30	408	709	4967	27	22	95	644	5	0	0	0				Washington	College Stats
1	9	DAL	Tyron Smith	T	20	2019	2	7	9	84	84	131	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0				USC	College Stats
1	10	JAX	Blaine Gabbert	QB	21	2018	0	0	2	16	7	56	842	1498	9063	48	47	177	631	3	1	-16	0				Missouri	College Stats
1	11	HOU	J.J. Watt	DE	22	2019	5	5	8	98	98	112	0	0

I really wanted Jake Locker.. So my NFL pedigree is zero ?

[Rc2catch]

39 minutes ago, Mango said:

I still think it was a mistake because

 

1. He was still productive at the time

2. We wouldn’t have been in “cap hell” had we just waited a few months. 
3. Its a coaches job to work with tough athletes, not cast them aside in short order to find easier ones. Marrone hasn’t been able to manage Dareus or 60% of his roster because he sucks. 
 

That doesn’t mean that he should be an all pro. Or even that good. But cutting him that quickly created a large hole, where we had to over pay his replacement, and eat his salary, all while he was still productive at the time. 
 

I would be been fine letting him go the year after. It would have halved his dead cap space. 

I can’t disagree with your thinking. 
But it wasn’t about cap. It was only about establishing the locker room. Leaders and guys who buy in to that process that was talked about for two years non stop and is still used in arguments. 
They considered Dareus a cancer that had to be cut out and not allowed in the locker room. That’s why I never really complained about stars money, they didn’t just pay him for production or obviously we got robbed, I always believed he was just the unofficial leader on the practice field and locker room which I don’t actually know to be fact. Either way it looks like their plan ended up being much better than any of us imagined at the time all this stuff was going down 

[Florida Bills Fanatic]

28 minutes ago, Mango said:

I still think it was a mistake because

 

1. He was still productive at the time

2. We wouldn’t have been in “cap hell” had we just waited a few months. 
3. Its a coaches job to work with tough athletes, not cast them aside in short order to find easier ones. Marrone hasn’t been able to manage Dareus or 60% of his roster because he sucks. 
 

That doesn’t mean that he should be an all pro. Or even that good. But cutting him that quickly created a large hole, where we had to over pay his replacement, and eat his salary, all while he was still productive at the time. 
 

I would be been fine letting him go the year after. It would have halved his dead cap space. 

Nice rewrite of history.  Go back and watch some games.  He took plays off and was slow when he did decide to exert some effort.  If he was a decent player and not a locker room problem, he would be on a roster.  He developed a reputation that eventually ended his time in the league.  He got paid and fell off a cliff.  As far as the money, the Bills saved the  unpaid non-guaranteed portion of his salary.  I understand why the Bills didn't want to throw more cash at the guy.  Being in cap hell didn't mean much because the roster was in bad shape and required a complete rebuild.  We now see the results of the rebuilding process.  It looks pretty good from where I sit.

 

In keeping with full disclosure, I was a draft Dareus guy and was glad when the Bills selected him.  I turned out to be really wrong about that.

[Rocky Landing]

It's easy to throw shade at the guy. But back in '14, when Jim Schwartz was the DC, and the D-line consisted of Mario, Marcel, Kyle, and Jerry, and we were so far into the drought that it seemed endless, and inevitable, the defense was the only thing that year that made Bills football watchable. I wish I could remember the game, or team we were playing, but I remember watching Marcel chase down a running back, and thinking to myself, "holy crap, no one that large should be able to run that fast!" That D-line will be remembered in Bills history as one of the few bright spots in a long, and utterly bleak period -- all four of them at their peak. I will always appreciate Marcel Darius for being a part of that squad.

[KD in CA]

48 minutes ago, Rc2catch said:

I really wanted Jake Locker.. So my NFL pedigree is zero ?

 

I recall a lot of hype on the board about a Jay Clocker back in those days.

[BillsVet]

 

56 minutes ago, Rc2catch said:

I can’t disagree with your thinking. 
But it wasn’t about cap. It was only about establishing the locker room. Leaders and guys who buy in to that process that was talked about for two years non stop and is still used in arguments. 
They considered Dareus a cancer that had to be cut out and not allowed in the locker room. That’s why I never really complained about stars money, they didn’t just pay him for production or obviously we got robbed, I always believed he was just the unofficial leader on the practice field and locker room which I don’t actually know to be fact. Either way it looks like their plan ended up being much better than any of us imagined at the time all this stuff was going down 

 

Obviously it wasn't about cap because they went out and dropped 50M with 25M guaranteed on a DT mere months later.  Guy affectionally called the human traffic cone by a longtime poster who is not with us right now.  

 

Your assessment on Dareus makes it seem like you were part of the conversation between McD and Beane about the player and what to do with him.  Call me skeptical.   

 

And another thing.  People talk about the "process" (which changes really quickly sometimes) as though it's a secret weapon.  But then Buffalo trades for a talented, albeit mercurial Stefon Diggs.  Or, once tried to trade for Antonio Brown.  

 

I think the "process" talk works because people assign it mythical value and serves as message board fodder for fans.  It's McD trying to establish credibility circa 2017 as a new HC.

 

 

[Doc]

1 hour ago, Florida Bills Fanatic said:

Nice rewrite of history.  Go back and watch some games.  He took plays off and was slow when he did decide to exert some effort.  If he was a decent player and not a locker room problem, he would be on a roster.  He developed a reputation that eventually ended his time in the league.  He got paid and fell off a cliff.  As far as the money, the Bills saved the  unpaid non-guaranteed portion of his salary.  I understand why the Bills didn't want to throw more cash at the guy.  Being in cap hell didn't mean much because the roster was in bad shape and required a complete rebuild.  We now see the results of the rebuilding process.  It looks pretty good from where I sit.

 

In keeping with full disclosure, I was a draft Dareus guy and was glad when the Bills selected him.  I turned out to be really wrong about that.

 

You're not alone.  But as they say, you can't measure heart.  Once he got paid he coasted so he could keep cashing checks.

[K-9]

Tub. Of. Goo.

[uticaclub]

Remember when he showed up late for an away game? 
 

That being said I was not a fan of trade at the time. We gave up 1000 yards rushing in 3 games after the trade while Jax D became elite and don’t make the conference championship without Dareus.

 

While I’m sure Star is a better locker room guy, I’d still rather have Marcel, cap hit was pretty comparable 

 

Edited September 1, 2020 by uticaclub

[Rc2catch]

20 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

 

Obviously it wasn't about cap because they went out and dropped 50M with 25M guaranteed on a DT mere months later.  Guy affectionally called the human traffic cone by a longtime poster who is not with us right now.  

 

Your assessment on Dareus makes it seem like you were part of the conversation between McD and Beane about the player and what to do with him.  Call me skeptical.   

 

And another thing.  People talk about the "process" (which changes really quickly sometimes) as though it's a secret weapon.  But then Buffalo trades for a talented, albeit mercurial Stefon Diggs.  Or, once tried to trade for Antonio Brown.  

 

I think the "process" talk works because people assign it mythical value and serves as message board fodder for fans.  It's McD trying to establish credibility circa 2017 as a new HC.

 

 

Why would anyone trade a #3 pick for peanuts who just got a massive contract extension unless they just didn’t want him on the team and in the locker room anymore? Common sense would say they didn’t like what he brought to the team rather it’s attitude or work ethic. Then to turn around and give that kinda money to a player not half as talented says the exact opposite. Dareus gets traded and star gets signed. Star in my opinion got paid to be a leader not a producer.  Obviously I’m not part of the conversation or an nfl exec my post above just said I wanted Jake Locker in that draft ?? 

As for the “process” that was simple. The first two seasons the process was bringing in the right guys to build the right culture. Tolbert, Star, guys like that who mcd knew had what he wanted. After year 2 and the tone was set the process is out the window. Once the young guys and vets were on board you can go out and add anything you want cause they’ll keep the team in check and a couple divas won’t poison the moral. The process was over after year two. They shipped everything out they didn’t want to build with and kept all their cornerstone pieces and drafted their guys. You don’t need a process after that cause 65% of your roster is exactly the kind of players you want who will keep others in check and hold them to the high standard you want on and off the field. 

[Buffalo03]

Did Dareus ever go to a pro bowl? I'm pretty sure for the longest time that Dareus, Jake Locker and Blaine Gabbert were the only 3 from the top 11 of thay draft class that didn't make a pro bowl or Dareus was the last one of that group to make it

Edited September 1, 2020 by Buffalo03

[uticaclub]

19 minutes ago, Buffalo03 said:

Did Dareus ever go to a pro bowl? I'm pretty sure for the longest time that Dareus, Jake Locker and Blaine Gabbert were the only 3 from the top 11 of thay draft class that didn't make a pro bowl or Dareus was the last one of that group to make it

Pro Bowler in 2013 & 14

[Thurman#1]

7 hours ago, Mango said:

I still think it was a mistake because

 

1. He was still productive at the time

2. We wouldn’t have been in “cap hell” had we just waited a few months. 
3. Its a coaches job to work with tough athletes, not cast them aside in short order to find easier ones. Marrone hasn’t been able to manage Dareus or 60% of his roster because he sucks. 
 

That doesn’t mean that he should be an all pro. Or even that good. But cutting him that quickly created a large hole, where we had to over pay his replacement, and eat his salary, all while he was still productive at the time. 
 

I would be been fine letting him go the year after. It would have halved his dead cap space. 

 

 

I disagree with most of this.

 

1)  First, I guess you could say he was still productive at the time, but he wasn't worth half of what he was being paid. In his first four years he averaged seven sacks a season. Then the new contract was signed and lo and behold, a total of 5.5 sacks in the next two seasons combined. He was still stopping the run, but was wildly overpaid.

 

2)  Spending more money doesn't get you out of cap hell. What firing him did was have him cost us more or less the same amount, but have it moved up a ton. And that's what they wanted, to move up the cap hits and blow them out in one season. It fit their plan really well, actually.

 

3) It's not the coaches job to work with tough athletes. It's the coach's job to produce success. There are plenty of good ways to do that, and what you're suggesting is only one of them. Where are all the tough athletes that this administration is working with right now? Another - probably much better - way is to kick the laziest asses off the bus and develop a terrific locker room. That's what they did, and kicking out Dareus was a terrific lesson for the locker room .... "they'll even get rid of hIm? With that much dead money? Dang, I'd better get to meetings on time and give everything I've got."