Making China Pay

[All_Pro_Bills]

15 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

Therefore, it's your opinion that trump will win.  Why?

https://archive.is/miJGC

Because China's economy is already cracking, there is no other market that will be willing to take the US bound products, dumping won't be tolerated, an outcome where millions of workers will be unemployed will be threat to the regime. I don't see the world answering the call from Xi to join China against America.

 

Selling treasuries is more a mechanism of funding the defense of their currency than a retaliation. And even if it is, when push comes to shove Treasury or the Fed will enter the market and buy up the paper. The dollar is still the reserve and trade settlement currency and the advantages of that are a strong weapon.

 

The danger is this provokes an attack on Tiawan. And creates a recession here. But it's not like there won't ever be another recession in forever. 

 

An obvious problem is the lead time for bringing back industries. And the costs. But what's the cost of doing nothing and letting China take control of the world and impose CCP like control over it? Isn't saving democracy worth some sacrifice and temporary inconvenience? And if it becomes a hot war waiting until their military capabilities exceed ours would be foolish. 

 

Edited Tuesday at 01:51 PM by All_Pro_Bills

[Joe Ferguson forever]

14 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

Because China's economy is already cracking, there is no other market that will be willing to take the US bound products, dumping won't be tolerated, an outcome where millions of workers will be unemployed will be threat to the regime. I don't see the world answering the call from Xi to join China against America.

 

Selling treasuries is more a mechanism of funding the defense of their currency than a retaliation. And even if it is, when push comes to shove Treasury or the Fed will enter the market and buy up the paper. The dollar is still the reserve and trade settlement currency and the advantages of that are a strong weapon.

 

The danger is this provokes an attack on Tiawan. And creates a recession here. But it's not like there won't ever be another recession in forever. 

 

An obvious problem is the lead time for bringing back industries. And the costs. But what's the cost of doing nothing and letting China take control of the world and impose CCP like control over it? Isn't saving democracy worth some sacrifice and temporary inconvenience? And if it becomes a hot war waiting until their military capabilities exceed ours would be foolish. 

 

did you even read the linked article from "The Financial Times"?

to summarize the first part, Americans buy Chinese stuff because we need it.  They make the vast majority of many consumer product categories:  electronics, shoes, toys, bikes, pharmaceuticals, air conditioners etc.  They are a dictatorship and their citizenry will accept a downturn much better than ours where citizens still (for now) have the power of the vote.  Read this part closely-

 

Under these circumstances, China can afford to play a waiting game. But if Beijing decides to get nasty then it has some really powerful tools that it can deploy. China makes almost 50 per cent of the ingredients that go into the antibiotics that Americans depend on. The F35, the backbone of the US Air Force, requires rare-earth components sourced from China. The Chinese are also the second-largest foreign owners of US Treasury bonds — which could matter at a time when the market is under strain.

Even if the Trump administration can find a category of imports that nobody in America will miss — it seems unlikely that it can inflict game-changing damage on China. 

The American market represents only about 14 per cent of Chinese exports. Joerg Wuttke, the former head of the European Chamber of Commerce in Beijing, argues that American tariffs are “inconvenient, but it's not going to be a threat to the economy . . . It’s a $14tn-$15tn economy and the exports to the US are $550bn.”

The White House keeps suggesting plaintively that President Xi Jinping should pick up the phone and call. But with Trump in headlong retreat, there is no incentive

for the Chinese leader to talk — let alone plead for mercy.

 

Oh, and Ray Dalio is warning of "something worse than a recession".  What do you imagine he means?

Edited Tuesday at 02:05 PM by Joe Ferguson forever

[Homelander]

1 hour ago, thenorthremembers said:

I cannot believe how many pro-China communists disguise themselves as American citizens.   It is truly unfathomable and sad to me.     

 

Yeah okay

 

 

 

[Joe Ferguson forever]

1 hour ago, thenorthremembers said:

I cannot believe how many pro-China communists disguise themselves as American citizens.   It is truly unfathomable and sad to me.     

Dude, I'm not the least pro China.  But I can't believe how many pro Russia MAGA there are.  Disgusting.

[Homelander]

2 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

Dude, I'm not the least pro China.  But I can't believe how many pro Russia MAGA there are.  Disgusting.

 

And NAZIS - 100% full blown NAZIS.

[Niagara Bill]

55 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

China didn't attack? Tell that to Taiwan, Vietnam, and Phillipines when it comes to aggressive actions in the South China Sea.

 

And sure US citizens benefited from trade with China. But that benefit was not distributed equally. Ask workers that lost their jobs, businesses that went under, and residents of thousands of small towns and cities turned into ghost towns. Most of the benefit went to US based multinational corporations, the government that found an eager buyer for Treasury paper, and political and social elites paid millions to advocate for China through a program the CCP calls elite capture.

 

One danger is decades of offshoring industrial capacity has left industries essential to national defense, like ship building a critical weakness. There won't be any great mobilization of civilian industry to convert to defense production like during WW2 because there’s not much left to convert. Our exposure is frightening.

 

But most American have no stomach for any battle. They're perfectly happy buying over-priced iPhones, cheap consumer goods, and low quality, throw away, item like appliances with short service lives.

 

When China gets powerful enough to overtake the US all this will go away in an instant. The administration has decided to take them on now, on our terms, rather than wait for the fight later on their terms. And make no mistake they intend to dominate the world. Under their political and social system. Curious how the posters crying about protecting democracy are so eager to side with China to give ours away.

As I said, tax companies doing business in China, problem solved.

It is not siding with China, it is recognizing that US and China are equally dangerous, but US is more untrustworthy and unpredictable.

Neither leader listens to their courts, China threatened Taiwan, US threatens Denmark and Canada and Panama..even Ukraine.

Tough guy Vance looks like a total jerk. The hillbilly calling others peasants. Wow, truly unprofessional, unreliable, not intelligent.

At a time when Russia is pushing Europe, into a potential conflict, trump turns on his allies. Threatens to harm their economies as he demands they spend increasing amounts on defence.

At a time you say dealing with China is essential, he turns on his allies...

Leadership in the US is out of control, knee jerk, fluctuating, unpredictable.

What is so tough to understand. 

 

[Joe Ferguson forever]

26 minutes ago, Homelander said:

 

And NAZIS - 100% full blown NAZIS.

Some believe that the Jan 6 rioters and the hate groups they represent could foment rioting and unrest such that trump can declare martial law.  Pardoning them and refunding their fines fits right in.  Same gameplan as Hitler with the SA.  I'm starting to believe they may be correct.

Edited Tuesday at 02:48 PM by Joe Ferguson forever

[Niagara Bill]

1 minute ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

Some believe that the Jan 6 rioters and the hate groups they represent could foment rioting and unrest such that trump can declare martial law.  Pardoning them and refunding their fines fits right in.  Same gameplan as Hitler with the SA.  I'm starting to believe they may be correct.

I am convinced of three things

1. He will find a reason to use military in Greenland and Canada

2. The Nov, 2026 elections will not occur

3. He will allow Russia opportunity to expand.

[Tommy Callahan]

Jan 6 folks were morons and did their time. 

 

It's not like the two hundred arrested at the disrupt riot at his swearing in.  Or the countless acts of violence from the left.  Like assassination attempts and fire bombing private property. 

 

Carter pardoned the capital mass shooters.  Clinton pardoned the capital bombers.

 

If you want to see some crazy, check out Reddit or blue sky

 

 

[Joe Ferguson forever]

2 minutes ago, Tommy Callahan said:

Jan 6 folks were morons and did their time. 

 

It's not like the two hundred arrested at the disrupt riot at his swearing in.  Or the countless acts of violence from the left.  Like assassination attempts and fire bombing private property. 

 

Carter pardoned the capital mass shooters.  Clinton pardoned the capital bombers.

 

If you want to see some crazy, check out Reddit or blue sky

 

 

BS.  they're traitors.  they didn't do their time.  And they're the real "useful idiots".  but I suppose your comment is more meaningful than your usual emoji...

6 minutes ago, Niagara Bill said:

I am convinced of three things

1. He will find a reason to use military in Greenland and Canada

2. The Nov, 2026 elections will not occur

3. He will allow Russia opportunity to expand.

I hope you're wrong on all three.  2026 is looking like a maga bloodbath so he certainly has incentive.  I saw a theoretical map of the world divided into 3 parts for US, Russia and China.  It wasn't pretty.  All of N American and Greenland were US.  Our hope is that R senators and congressmen have some respect for our democracy.  We are seeing some of that already.  But some are unredeemable like the rank and file maga's here.

[Tommy Callahan]

21 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

BS.  they're traitors.  they didn't do their time.  And they're the real "useful idiots".  but I suppose your comment is more meaningful than your usual emoji...

I hope you're wrong on all three.  2026 is looking like a maga bloodbath so he certainly has incentive.  I saw a theoretical map of the world divided into 3 parts for US, Russia and China.  It wasn't pretty.  All of N American and Greenland were US.  Our hope is that R senators and congressmen have some respect for our democracy.  We are seeing some of that already.  But some are unredeemable like the rank and file maga's here.

Facts don't care about feels.  

 

Eff.  How many victims were created by that Biden pardon of the kids for cash judge.   

 

Lol, anyone else seen how bad the Dems actually poll.  No matter how angry their small bit violent and loud supporters are.   

Edited Tuesday at 03:20 PM by Tommy Callahan

[Joe Ferguson forever]

10 minutes ago, Tommy Callahan said:

Facts don't care about feels.  

 

Eff.  How many victims were created by that Biden pardon of the kids for cash judge.   

 

Lol, anyone else seen how bad the Dems actually poll.  No matter how angry their small bit violent and loud supporters are.   

This is the classic "haves" versus "have nots".  This is not 18th century France.  It could be 1930's Germany...

[B-Man]

 

Trump’s Challenge to Xi May be the Entire Story

Mark Simon

 

When you spend enough time around experts on China, “China hands”, it starts to become obvious that for the vast majority there is an accepted doctrine, mindset, if you will; of China being superior to the West in just about every way. Whether diplomatic skills, where we were told by Kissinger, “the Chinese play the long game”, or sycophants like Hank Greenberg or Hank Paulson, who just wait for a subject to cross by, and then earnestly explain how China is superior; its hard find a subject from which China hands will not conclude China is just better than us.

 

President Trump never bought into the China myth, even more deliberately he doesn’t buy into the competence or validity of the Chinese Communist Party (CCP). For Trump, China is a business opportunity at best, a destroyer of American jobs and a rival for global leadership at its worst. The US President prefers the latter but is prepared to deal with the former.

 

Trump long ago concluded China was ripping the US off in trade. In 2017 he noted that Xi Jinping wasn’t going to do anything about the trade disparity and so President Trump did what he has always done to a business or political adversary; he punched Xi in the face with unilateral tariffs and a deepening of defense ties with Japan.

 

In 2025 Donald Trump is back in office, and once again he walked across the school yard, picked out the bully, and smack. We have a new tariff battle between he and Xi Jinping. Just like he has done with the Panama Canal and TikTok, Trump makes no bones about targeting Xi.

 

Protocol and respect for Chinese tradition are out the door with Trump. Concerns with the workings of the Chinese Communist Party, CCP, are meaningless to President Trump.

 

For the last 50 years the accepted way to deal with the CCP was to make it about policy, make it about the system. Striking out a particular leader was just not in the diplomatic playbook. The logic for non-confrontation with a Chinese leader seemed solid. Face is everything in China, and if you make a leader lose Face, then you talks go nowhere.

 

But Donald Trump doesn’t care about Face. Does anyone think that Trump thinks Xi holds some special status where Trump doesn’t get to have a go at him? Why would we not think Trump doesn’t understand that the more he can put Xi to the test externally, the more Xi will feel the pressure internally. It’s high stakes poker. It’s also typical Trump.

 

{snip}

 

China scholars, diplomatic elites, CCP officials, and even President Xi, follow a plan when it comes to how the world is supposed to deal with the CCP and Chinese leaders. It’s a plan that has worked well for Xi and the CCP.

 

Only one problem. President Trump doesn’t like the plan and has no intention of letting any opponents plan determine his tactics. So, the world needs to get ready, and diplomats might want to consider options as Trump enters the ring with Xi. For there is wisdom in the words of noted diplomat Mike Tyson, “Everyone’s got a plan, until someone punches you in the face”.

 

https://marksimonappledaily.substack.com/p/trumps-challenge-to-xi-may-be-the?

 

 

[thenorthremembers]

I am not going to bother to respond to the 4-5 guys in this thread that think they are more intelligent that 77 million other Americans.   Your arrogance is sad, your allegiance to China over your own country is sick.     

[The Frankish Reich]

11 minutes ago, B-Man said:

For there is wisdom in the words of noted diplomat Mike Tyson, “Everyone’s got a plan, until someone punches you in the face”.

Unless you're Evander Holyfield. 

Sorry, China is winning. Trump will be reduced to eat biting soon.

[Niagara Bill]

2 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

I am not going to bother to respond to the 4-5 guys in this thread that think they are more intelligent that 77 million other Americans.   Your arrogance is sad, your allegiance to China over your own country is sick.     

Being American does not mean you are the most intelligent. You are so consumed by the internal politics that you fail to see what your previous friends and allies can see. 

Outsiders can see the woke nonsense, the crazies that follow AOC gang, that Biden was not all there, that spending was out of control, that a government who annually gives grants of up to 9 BILLION dollars to a university who annual tuition is $50,000 with 45000 students and receives gifts in the billions, is filled with corruption, that endless illegal migrants is dangerous and that sanctuary cities should be considered treasonist.

Outsiders can also see the breakdown in the rule of law, that for the first time in 100 years the president of the US is not prone to following the law, ignores his SCOTUS, threatens his close allies, says his close allies need to be punished, violates his own trade agreements,. 

Outsiders can see the office is out of control, couldn't even declare punishing tariffs, and implement them without back tracking numerous times because they didn't plan and have NO respect for other nations with this shoot from the hip actions. 

Add on the hatred of penguins and his out if control lsp dog hillbilly Vance, you have some reasons for the rise of China. It is way past the old CCP stuff. 

Don't underestimate the view from outside the battle.

 

[Joe Ferguson forever]

25 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

I am not going to bother to respond to the 4-5 guys in this thread that think they are more intelligent that 77 million other Americans.   Your arrogance is sad, your allegiance to China over your own country is sick.     

We have all picked our sides.  Mine is not with China.  It's against trump and his cult.  At this point there is no in between.  trump approval 41% and dropping.  wait til Walmart shoppers are paying twice as much for everyday items...

[Joe Ferguson forever]

10 minutes ago, Niagara Bill said:

ignores his SCOTUS,

mostly agree x I like AOC.  She'd be much better than pos trump.  and SCOTUS isn't his.  It is a coequal branch of govt along with Congress according to the Constitution.  Not that trump pays any attention nor do his voters when push comes to shove.

Edited Tuesday at 04:11 PM by Joe Ferguson forever

[thenorthremembers]

25 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

We have all picked our sides.  Mine is not with China.  It's against trump and his cult.  At this point there is no in between.  trump approval 41% and dropping.  wait til Walmart shoppers are paying twice as much for everyday items...

 

I hope it works out well for you.   In the meantime, you may want to work on understanding why you think Trump voters are less intelligent than you when some of the world's most intelligent and successful people voted for him.   It's a very odd place to be in life to not be able to recognize other people's worth based solely on who they voted for.   That sounds a lot like a cult member to me.  

[Niagara Bill]

26 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

mostly agree x I like AOC.  She'd be much better than pos trump.  and SCOTUS isn't his.  It is a coequal branch of govt along with Congress according to the Constitution.  Not that trump pays any attention nor do his voters when push comes to shove.

We can disagree with the AOC point. She is harmful to your culture, she has more passion for non citizens than citizens. The country spends 100s of billions on non citizens each year and encouraging treasonist policies like sanctuary cities is just wrong. i could never support anything that wrong.

SCOTUS is his, the majority he appointed, and they are effectively toothless now. They went from virtually making every decision in a stalled country to being tossed aside.