Gruden tears into Nate Peterman [language]

[Saxum]

7 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

5th-7th round picks are a crap shoot.  One exception is us taking Bass, but who knows if Dane Jackson can make thei team, or Fromm can be developed to be a back up.  McD’s decision to Peterman in two games was a mistake.  You can’t tell me there wasn’t something he did in practice that made you question whether he could ever start in a game.

 

That exactly was the issue - he looked good in practice but when he got in game he could not perform.  Some players look better in games than practices and some opposite. This scares me this year for they will start season with practices only.

[GunnerBill]

45 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

5th-7th round picks are a crap shoot.  One exception is us taking Bass, but who knows if Dane Jackson can make thei team, or Fromm can be developed to be a back up.  McD’s decision to Peterman in two games was a mistake.  You can’t tell me there wasn’t something he did in practice that made you question whether he could ever start in a game.

 

*4 games. He started against the Chargers and the Colts in 2017 and the Ravens and Bears in 2018. 

 

If McDermott had cut him the Monday after the Chargers debacle it would have been less of an issue. But he kept him around and kept going back to him. 

[machine gun kelly]

I know GB.  It was one thing for the end of the season as they were motivated by keeping Tyrod out to make sure they didn’t have to pay him an injury settlement, they knew they were going to draft one in 18.  I agree the Chargers was enough for me, and Tyrod was out vs. in for a rhythm to play better at the Jags in the playoffs.  
 

I know the argument about not throwing Allen out so early, but anyone not Peterman.  They knew he sucked after the end of 2017.  It’s not like Cincy is not going to play Burrow week 1.  Allen couldn’t have done worse than Peterman especially with the Ravens.  Allen should have just started from the beginning of the game.

[MJS]

28 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

I know GB.  It was one thing for the end of the season as they were motivated by keeping Tyrod out to make sure they didn’t have to pay him an injury settlement, they knew they were going to draft one in 18.  I agree the Chargers was enough for me, and Tyrod was out vs. in for a rhythm to play better at the Jags in the playoffs.  
 

I know the argument about not throwing Allen out so early, but anyone not Peterman.  They knew he sucked after the end of 2017.  It’s not like Cincy is not going to play Burrow week 1.  Allen couldn’t have done worse than Peterman especially with the Ravens.  Allen should have just started from the beginning of the game.

Hard to condemn a guy after one game, though. And you never know until you do.

 

Fans use a lot of hindsight when thinking back on Peterman. Ultimately things worked out and Peterman is gone. Coaches and organizations make mistakes and have to move on from them.

 

If anything, it was a valuable learning experience for McDermott and Beane. Hopefully it taught them that you can't always trust your eyes based on practice or preseason. I personally can't remember such a Jekyll and Hyde player such as Peterman. Guy looked good when it didn't matter and then completely changed with live bullets.

[GunnerBill]

20 minutes ago, MJS said:

Hard to condemn a guy after one game, though. And you never know until you do.

 

Fans use a lot of hindsight when thinking back on Peterman. Ultimately things worked out and Peterman is gone. Coaches and organizations make mistakes and have to move on from them.

 

If anything, it was a valuable learning experience for McDermott and Beane. Hopefully it taught them that you can't always trust your eyes based on practice or preseason. I personally can't remember such a Jekyll and Hyde player such as Peterman. Guy looked good when it didn't matter and then completely changed with live bullets.

 

The "hindsight" argument only works if it was just the Chargers game. You could have said "okay honest mistake." He started 3 more times and threw picks in two more where he had to come off the bench. You didn't need hindsight then. We had evidence to go on. 

[K-9]

11 hours ago, First Round Bust said:

peterman remains one of, it not thee biggest, boil on the ace of the Bills epic fails...and there are plenty of other candidates...

NP isn’t even on the list of spectacular fails by this team.

[Kirby Jackson]

6 hours ago, MJS said:

Hard to condemn a guy after one game, though. And you never know until you do.

 

Fans use a lot of hindsight when thinking back on Peterman. Ultimately things worked out and Peterman is gone. Coaches and organizations make mistakes and have to move on from them.

 

If anything, it was a valuable learning experience for McDermott and Beane. Hopefully it taught them that you can't always trust your eyes based on practice or preseason. I personally can't remember such a Jekyll and Hyde player such as Peterman. Guy looked good when it didn't matter and then completely changed with live bullets.

 

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The "hindsight" argument only works if it was just the Chargers game. You could have said "okay honest mistake." He started 3 more times and threw picks in two more where he had to come off the bench. You didn't need hindsight then. We had evidence to go on. 

It also only works if you thought it was reasonable BEFORE the Chargers game. Some of us believed, that it was absolutely insane to go to Peterman before that game. The Bills were in a playoff battle and turned the keys over to a guy with little to no ability. It wasn’t like they were taking a look at the franchise future. It was crazy before, during and after.

5 hours ago, K-9 said:

NP isn’t even on the list of spectacular fails by this team.

Maybe not because of where he was drafted. At the same time, he’s the worst player to ever put on a Bills uniform.

Edited August 29, 2020 by Kirby Jackson

[K-9]

1 minute ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Maybe not because of where he was drafted. At the same time, he’s the worst player to ever put on a Bills uniform.

That’s a different argument and I agree. I’d be hard pressed to find a worse player, that’s for sure. 

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

 

It also only works if you thought it was reasonable BEFORE he Chargers game. Some of us believed, that it was absolutely insane to go to Peterman before that game. The Bills were in a playoff battle and turned the keys over to a guy with little to no ability. It wasn’t like they were taking a look at the franchise future. It was crazy before, during and after.

Maybe not because of where he was drafted. At the same time, he’s the worst player to ever put on a Bills uniform.

 

You know my view Kirby. I thought it was insane to draft him. But even if you say that one was an honest mistake what is the excuse for the other 3 starts?

[MJS]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

You know my view Kirby. I thought it was insane to draft him. But even if you say that one was an honest mistake what is the excuse for the other 3 starts?

It's pretty easy. They didn't condemn him for one bad half of football. He showed promise in camps and preseason so they gave him another shot. And he failed again.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, MJS said:

It's pretty easy. They didn't condemn him for one bad half of football. He showed promise in camps and preseason so they gave him another shot. And he failed again.

 

And the 3rd start? And keeping him to come off the bench in Houston? And the 4th start? At what point does it stop being hindsight to say a guy who we have seen consistently suck, actually sucks? 

[HOUSE]

He can win a lot of games for ya...

 

32

[Kirby Jackson]

11 minutes ago, MJS said:

It's pretty easy. They didn't condemn him for one bad half of football. He showed promise in camps and preseason so they gave him another shot. And he failed again.

 

8 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

And the 3rd start? And keeping him to come off the bench in Houston? And the 4th start? At what point does it stop being hindsight to say a guy who we have seen consistently suck, actually sucks? 

There are levels of “bad” too. He played, statistically the worst half of football that a guy has ever played. It’s not like he struggled some. Every guy that has ever played QB in the NFL was better. He was/is an abomination as a football player. Playing him once was a mistake. Playing him more than once is where the decision makers have to take the blame. There are a lot of nice guys that try hard. That doesn’t mean that they should be starting games in the NFL.

[Buffalo716]

9 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It was not the worst but it was one of the most obvious mistakes. He was 5th round not 6th. But it was obvious to me he wasn't draftable. 

there are tons of quarterbacks every year that are undraftable that got drafted in the 5th 6th and 7th round

 

You need arms for camp

[GunnerBill]

8 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

there are tons of quarterbacks every year that are undraftable that got drafted in the 5th 6th and 7th round

 

You need arms for camp

 

There are. Few are then thrust into a game play so appallingly and then start again. Play appalling. Start again... and so on. 

[MJS]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

And the 3rd start? And keeping him to come off the bench in Houston? And the 4th start? At what point does it stop being hindsight to say a guy who we have seen consistently suck, actually sucks? 

Those starts need context.

 

1st start was bad, obviously. But he started only because Tyrod was so terrible the week before, throwing for only 56 yards and an INT.

 

2nd start was the snow game. He started because Tyrod was injured. He threw 1 TD, no INT's and had a rating of 100.8 before leaving injured.

 

3rd start was Baltimore the next year. That was a bad one. He started because they wanted Allen to sit and learn more, which is a common thing to do with rookie QB's. Peterman also outperformed all the other QB's in preseason, including McCarron who they traded for a draft pick.

 

4th start was due to an Allen injury.

 

It's not like they chose to keep throwing him in there for no reason. He started because of injuries to starters and lack of better options on the team. And then they cut him and were forced to start QB's off the street.

 

I see the argument for cutting him after the Baltimore game for sure, but it was kind of a throwaway year anyway with the team fixing the cap and starting a rookie QB, not to mention the complete lack of talent on the roster anyway.

 

Not arguing that Peterman was good. He wasn't. He was terrible.

Edited August 29, 2020 by MJS

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, MJS said:

Those starts need context.

 

1st start was bad, obviously. But he started only because Tyrod was so terrible the week before, throwing for only 56 yards and an INT.

 

2nd start was the snow game. He started because Tyrod was injured. He threw 1 TD, no INT's and had a rating of 100.8 before leaving injured.

 

3rd start was Baltimore the next year. That was a bad one. He started because they wanted Allen to sit and learn more, which is a common thing to do with rookie QB's. Peterman also outperformed all the other QB's in preseason, including McCarron who they traded for a draft pick.

 

4th start was due to an Allen injury.

 

It's not like they chose to keep throwing him in there for no reason. He started because of injuries to starters and lack of better options on the team. And then they cut him and we're forced to start QB's off the street.

 

I see the argument for cutting him after the Baltimore game for sure, but it was kind of a throwaway year anyway with the team fixing the cap and starting a rookie QB, not to mention the complete lack of talent on the roster anyway.

 

Not arguing that Peterman was good. He wasn't. He was terrible.

 

He should have been cut after the Chargers game. The very next day. Had that happened I'd have been willing to take a hindsight argument. Say what you want about "one bad game" but it wasn't that he unravelled it was how he unravelled. He did so by not being able to execute basic stuff you need to be able to hit to be able to play in the league. If every out route you throw is a pick waiting to happen it is not just a case of dust yourself down and go again. If you can't make that throw you can't play in the league. It is as simple as that. 

 

And to me even watching him at Pitt I could see that. He was a bad decision maker, with below average arm strength and spotty accuracy propped up be a gimmicky offense. 

 

I don't buy that the Bills had no alternative but to keep sending him out there. They had lots of alternative. And that is not with hindsight. 

[JohnNord]

I will never understand the hatred for Peterman.  He wasn’t a good QB.  It shouldn’t be a surprise.  But the obsession with taking about had badly he sucked is bizarre. 
 

Also Gruden basically told him to hurry up at the line.  Not the tongue lashing I was expecting 

[MJS]

19 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He should have been cut after the Chargers game. The very next day. Had that happened I'd have been willing to take a hindsight argument. Say what you want about "one bad game" but it wasn't that he unravelled it was how he unravelled. He did so by not being able to execute basic stuff you need to be able to hit to be able to play in the league. If every out route you throw is a pick waiting to happen it is not just a case of dust yourself down and go again. If you can't make that throw you can't play in the league. It is as simple as that. 

 

And to me even watching him at Pitt I could see that. He was a bad decision maker, with below average arm strength and spotty accuracy propped up be a gimmicky offense. 

 

I don't buy that the Bills had no alternative but to keep sending him out there. They had lots of alternative. And that is not with hindsight. 

Some coaches don't give up that fast on players, I guess. I mean, he is still in the NFL trying to get better. Obviously coaches and GM's see something in him that you don't and are willing to work with him and try to help him develop.

 

Every time he got on the field for the Bills it was a disaster (except the snow game). Nobody disputes that. I just don't care that much that McDemott and Beane continued to try to develop him and give him opportunities all while focusing on building the team culture, bringing in talent, and scrubbing the cap. It was a rebuild.

 

And they moved on from him and now another team is trying the same thing with him.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

And the 3rd start? And keeping him to come off the bench in Houston? And the 4th start? At what point does it stop being hindsight to say a guy who we have seen consistently suck, actually sucks? 

The 'Hail Mary' that turned into the 'Act of Contrition' is what did it for me.

*
No brag...just fact.  ?