Milwaukee Bucks say they will forfeit playoff game tonight, then NBA postpones all games...

[Sig1Hunter]

8 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Yes I do. And it’s BECAUSE I do that I engage in this debate. A complete 180 from your theory. You don’t own the discussion no matter how frustrating that must be for you. 
 

The evidence of the eyewitness testimony reported on earlier today. 
 

I’m interested in your answer to the question I posed up thread so I’ll ask again: those Rittenhouse victims who got what they deserved in your opinion, what if they were church going kitten breeders with no prior records? Would your opinion of the situation be any different? If so, why?

What did these eyewitnesses say? 
 

If these church going kitten breeders were out rioting, burning, and destroying other peoples property and attacked someone defending that property, i would have the same opinion. I might have a little more empathy because they weren’t the dregs of society, but they still win Darwin awards for attacking a man with a loaded rifle.

[K-9]

4 minutes ago, Sig1Hunter said:

What did these eyewitnesses say? 
 

If these church going kitten breeders were out rioting, burning, and destroying other peoples property and attacked someone defending that property, i would have the same opinion. I might have a little more empathy because they weren’t the dregs of society, but they still win Darwin awards for attacking a man with a loaded rifle.

They said that Rittenhouse wasn’t chased until after firing shots and that he wasn’t attacked by Huber until AFTER Rittenhouse shot Rosenbaum. 
 

But while we are on the subject of proof, where is the proof that Rosenbaum and Huber were out rioting, burning, and destroying property? Or are you just again applying guilt by association. The ONLY hard evidence against any of them, including Rittenhouse, is that they were in violation of curfew. But painting with wide brushes is required to accept the narrative. 

[Sig1Hunter]

4 minutes ago, K-9 said:

They said that Rittenhouse wasn’t chased until after firing shots and that he wasn’t attacked by Huber until AFTER Rittenhouse shot Rosenbaum. 
 

But while we are on the subject of proof, where is the proof that Rosenbaum and Huber were out rioting, burning, and destroying property? Or are you just again applying guilt by association. The ONLY hard evidence against any of them, including Rittenhouse, is that they were in violation of curfew. But painting with wide brushes is required to accept the narrative. 

I don’t need proof. I can use common sense to make that assessment. Are you saying that they were just out for a midnight stroll during the middle of the riot? Three felons, just minding their own business?  You need proof for a criminal complaint. There’s no criminal complaint cuz they are no longer among the living.

 

The witness statements you quote are certainly persuasive, if true. However, with all the video floating around at these events, it’s interesting that there’s no video of this part of the incident. Another thing that makes it hard to believe is this: if someone shoots 3 rounds at me, am I going to then charge that person? I know... I’m using common sense here... and it has no place with you. Just the facts! Unfortunately, uncorroborated (and likely biased) witness statements aren’t considered facts either. If these three rounds were fired, I’m sure they will find the shell casings. So, I’ll end with saying I’ll wait for corroborating evidence before coming to your side of things. 

[NoSaint]

23 minutes ago, K-9 said:

@Buffalo_Gal cited some interesting insight earlier. There may be certain loophole arguments to be made. But the law as written is pretty explicit in its limitation of 17 year olds. 

it would loop around to a very fair question about whether the law should allow high school kids to do what he was doing (ignoring the actual shooting completely). 
 

I understand hunting exceptions etc... but I’m not super eager to have still forming brains in control of high impact weapons in the street. 

[Johnny Hammersticks]

I give you guys all permission to take the weekend off.  I think this horse has been beaten to death and has already been processed at the glue factory ??‍♂️

[NoSaint]

6 minutes ago, Sig1Hunter said:

I don’t need proof. I can use common sense to make that assessment. Are you saying that they were just out for a midnight stroll during the middle of the riot? Three felons, just minding their own business?  You need proof for a criminal complaint. There’s no criminal complaint cuz they are no longer among the living.

 

The witness statements you quote are certainly persuasive, if true. However, with all the video floating around at these events, it’s interesting that there’s no video of this part of the incident. Another thing that makes it hard to believe is this: if someone shoots 3 rounds at me, am I going to then charge that person? I know... I’m using common sense here... and it has no place with you. Just the facts! Unfortunately, uncorroborated (and likely biased) witness statements aren’t considered facts either. If these three rounds were fired, I’m sure they will find the shell casings. So, I’ll end with saying I’ll wait for corroborating evidence before coming to your side of things. 

And in that problem we find why I try to zoom out a bit and talk broad strokes on these sometimes.
 

Deep diving 3rd hand partial accounts of events, while weaving them alongside Instagram videos and comparing to the minutiae of the local laws of the incident du jour has its place. I get hooked in it plenty. 
 

but sometimes you just know a kid shouldn’t be out in a riot after curfew with a big ass gun regardless of the intricacies of how it went south and which party gets the better campaign boost from the disaster. The groundswell of celebrating his patriotism surely makes me uncomfortable regardless of whether he goes to jail or not. 

[K-9]

1 minute ago, Sig1Hunter said:

I don’t need proof. I can use common sense to make that assessment. Are you saying that they were just out for a midnight stroll during the middle of the riot? Three felons, just minding their own business?  You need proof for a criminal complaint. There’s no criminal complaint cuz they are no longer among the living.

 

The witness statements you quote are certainly persuasive, if true. However, with all the video floating around at these events, it’s interesting that there’s no video of this part of the incident. Another thing that makes it hard to believe is this: if someone shoots 3 rounds at me, am I going to then charge that person? I know... I’m using common sense here... and it has no place with you. Just the facts! Unfortunately, uncorroborated (and likely biased) witness statements aren’t considered facts either. If these three rounds were fired, I’m sure they will find the shell casings. So, I’ll end with saying I’ll wait for corroborating evidence before coming to your side of things. 

First paragraph is a load of crap. But again, it’s convenient. It’s a shame that Rittenhouse robbed law enforcement of the chance to properly charge his victims with crimes if they had the evidence to do so. No criminal complaint because they’re dead? That’s all I need to know. 

 

While you enjoy telling others they don’t have common sense, I submit “Common sense” could also inform you that Rittenhouse had no business being there in the first place, either. “Common sense” might inform others that had Rittenhouse not knowingly broke the law in the first place, none of this would have happened. Funny how “common sense” isn’t always a universal concept. 
 

Glad you brought up biased testimony because I submit your own bias clouds every point of view you have in this matter. 
 

But yes, we should all wait for the evidence to be collected and the case to be adjudicated. One would think that would suffice for all those rushing to control the narrative. Then again, that’s just common sense, right?

[Sig1Hunter]

Just now, K-9 said:

First paragraph is a load of crap. But again, it’s convenient. It’s a shame that Rittenhouse robbed law enforcement of the chance to properly charge his victims with crimes if they had the evidence to do so. No criminal complaint because they’re dead? That’s all I need to know. 

 

While you enjoy telling others they don’t have common sense, I submit “Common sense” could also inform you that Rittenhouse had no business being there in the first place, either. “Common sense” might inform others that had Rittenhouse not knowingly broke the law in the first place, none of this would have happened. Funny how “common sense” isn’t always a universal concept. 
 

Glad you brought up biased testimony because I submit your own bias clouds every point of view you have in this matter. 
 

But yes, we should all wait for the evidence to be collected and the case to be adjudicated. One would think that would suffice for all those rushing to control the narrative. Then again, that’s just common sense, right?

Innocent until proven guilty. Correct?

[K-9]

17 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

it would loop around to a very fair question about whether the law should allow high school kids to do what he was doing (ignoring the actual shooting completely). 
 

I understand hunting exceptions etc... but I’m not super eager to have still forming brains in control of high impact weapons in the street. 

Well, the law doesn’t allow him to do what he was doing on a couple fronts. 
 

Not old enough to possess that weapon. Old enough to be tried as an adult on the charges brought. 

1 minute ago, Sig1Hunter said:

Innocent until proven guilty. Correct?

If I thought you actually held that view for everyone, I’d respond. 

[Sig1Hunter]

2 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Well, the law doesn’t allow him to do what he was doing on a couple fronts. 
 

Not old enough to possess that weapon. Old enough to be tried as an adult on the charges brought. 

If I thought you actually held that view for everyone, I’d respond. 

I do hold that view.

[K-9]

On 8/27/2020 at 7:49 PM, PastaJoe said:

Kenosha police were recorded thanking the vigilantes, including the killer kid, and offering them water, while there was a curfew in effect.

 

Just saw this. This is a terrorist threat, nothing less. At the very least, I hope he and his ilk are on FBI watch lists. Regardless of what political stripe you wear, activism is what gets things done in this country. For crissakes, you’d think anyone professing to want to make America great again would appreciate that activism is what created this nation to begin with. 
 

He threatens me or my loved ones with his 50 cal. “Trump re-election rifle”,  he’s gonna get his ass smoked. 

[NoSaint]

2 hours ago, Sig1Hunter said:

Innocent until proven guilty. Correct?

generally very true
 

Though the affirmative defense does bring some degree of guilty until proven justified dynamic to it, unless we are arguing someone else shot the guys.
 

The shifting burden of proof and concession of having committed the act does effect how the fact patterns are evaluated.

 

and unless there’s something we’re all missing the gun charge seems open and shut in that we know he had the gun and was 17 and was in a location where a 17 year old couldn’t do that. 

 

that said, I’ll again say they all deserve fair trials 

Edited August 29, 2020 by NoSaint

[Sig1Hunter]

5 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

the affirmative defense does bring some degree of guilty until proven justified dynamic to it, unless we are arguing someone else shot the guys.
 

The shifting burden of proof and concession of having committed the act does effect how the fact patterns are evaluated.

 

and unless there’s something we’re all missing the gun charge seems open and shut in that we know he had the gun and was 17 and was in a location where a 17 year old couldn’t do that. 

 

that said, I’ll again say they all deserve fair trials 

Hey, no issue with that charge if that’s the law. It will be interesting to see how they handcuff Mr Spaghetti Arm for his felony of being a felon in possession of a firearm. 
 

Any response to my other post about use of control? Curious to hear your thoughts since it seems we can have a reasonable debate.

[NoSaint]

24 minutes ago, Sig1Hunter said:

Hey, no issue with that charge if that’s the law. It will be interesting to see how they handcuff Mr Spaghetti Arm for his felony of being a felon in possession of a firearm. 
 

Any response to my other post about use of control? Curious to hear your thoughts since it seems we can have a reasonable debate.

The Blake situation has a few things hanging with me that I’m not sure expected protocol or best practice on. 
 

pulling a knife is not a huge deal to me. It definitely ups the stress level and potential to turn south... but alone you can back up, create space and continue to attempt to manage the situation. 
 

entering the car... And Specifically a car with kids is a major wild card. My questions about the use of force probably center around weighing risk to them if he gets in, not the risk to officers if he pulls a knife out of the door. 

 

It strikes me that in managing the scene an officer maybe should’ve controlled that direction of movement better? But that could just be Monday morning quarterbacking. If you think back to my earlier post about the officers controlling the scene, and who the imminent threat was to- it was pointed at seeing if you brought this up as I was curious about a LEO weighing a scene like that with kids present 

Edited August 29, 2020 by NoSaint

[LB3]

1 hour ago, K-9 said:

Just saw this. This is a terrorist threat, nothing less. At the very least, I hope he and his ilk are on FBI watch lists. Regardless of what political stripe you wear, activism is what gets things done in this country. For crissakes, you’d think anyone professing to want to make America great again would appreciate that activism is what created this nation to begin with. 
 

He threatens me or my loved ones with his 50 cal. “Trump re-election rifle”,  he’s gonna get his ass smoked. 

I don't know who that dude is but watching that clip if you don't riot in his community you'll be fine.

 

The McCloskey's agree with your sentiment though.

[Warcodered]

 

[RaoulDuke79]

3 hours ago, K-9 said:

Just saw this. This is a terrorist threat, nothing less. At the very least, I hope he and his ilk are on FBI watch lists. Regardless of what political stripe you wear, activism is what gets things done in this country. For crissakes, you’d think anyone professing to want to make America great again would appreciate that activism is what created this nation to begin with. 
 

He threatens me or my loved ones with his 50 cal. “Trump re-election rifle”,  he’s gonna get his ass smoked. 

Kinda seems like you just did what he did.

[Sig1Hunter]

1 hour ago, NoSaint said:

The Blake situation has a few things hanging with me that I’m not sure expected protocol or best practice on. 
 

pulling a knife is not a huge deal to me. It definitely ups the stress level and potential to turn south... but alone you can back up, create space and continue to attempt to manage the situation. 
 

entering the car... And Specifically a car with kids is a major wild card. My questions about the use of force probably center around weighing risk to them if he gets in, not the risk to officers if he pulls a knife out of the door. 

 

It strikes me that in managing the scene an officer maybe should’ve controlled that direction of movement better? But that could just be Monday morning quarterbacking. If you think back to my earlier post about the officers controlling the scene, and who the imminent threat was to- it was pointed at seeing if you brought this up as I was curious about a LEO weighing a scene like that with kids present 

Cool, thanks

1 hour ago, LB3 said:

I don't know who that dude is but watching that clip if you don't riot in his community you'll be fine.

 

The McCloskey's agree with your sentiment though.

The irony in his post is that he gets upset over one person making these statements online, while the cities are literally burning, and people are getting hurt and dying because of violent left wing mobs...why wouldn’t the actual violence piss him off more than someone just saying things on the internet? 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Well looks like bronny and company folded up tents when their salaries would be cut. Guess "principle" only takes you so far.

[NoSaint]

reading some of the rittenhouse filings... curious what folks think about him calling his friend instead of the police after the first shooting

 

or frankly that once he reached police he didn’t immediately stop and report

Edited August 29, 2020 by NoSaint