Johnny Hammersticks Posted August 27, 2020 Posted August 27, 2020 8 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said: I'd say you've got a much better chance of surviving a police encounter by cooperating than not. Especially when guns are already drawn on you, you've been tazed, etc. You strike me as the type of guy who attends a lot of yoga retreats. No? 2
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted August 27, 2020 Posted August 27, 2020 (edited) 1 minute ago, Johnny Hammersticks said: You strike me as the type of guy who attends a lot of yoga retreats. No? no. you're thinking of @Cripple Creek Edited August 27, 2020 by Joe in Winslow 1
K-9 Posted August 27, 2020 Posted August 27, 2020 2 minutes ago, RochesterRob said: It is. The situation is far out of hand when the cop has his knee on your neck or discharges his weapon. Show me the situation where a cop asks for ID and a split second later the person in question is violently thrown to the ground or is fired upon. Out of hand indeed. I don’t think we can find a situation where an officer resorted to shooting for simple non compliance to a request. That’s the point; simple non compliance is not enough to justify use of deadly force. The only time a LEO should use deadly force is when his life or that of another is in immediate danger. While that’s the case in the vast majority of cases, it isn’t the case in ALL the cases. That is a failure in training, skill, discipline, and leadership from the top. And it hurts good police officers everywhere as a result. That’s a disservice to LEOs and the communities they are sworn to serve and protect. And that needs to be recognized and addressed. 1
PastaJoe Posted August 27, 2020 Posted August 27, 2020 1 hour ago, The Poojer said: there's a difference with not cooperating and allegedly aggressively continuing to go after someone/something in that van after being tased AND having his t-shirt firmly gripped by a police. “Allegedly aggressively”? That’s quite an assumption. The video shows him walking to his car to go where his kids were. 1 hour ago, Buffalo Timmy said: The man who killed Floyd is in jail and will stand trial for murder. I do not know a single person who condones chauvin or says he should not be tried. I truly believe that was a personal thing because it is hard to believe that two dudes working security don't know each other. But if I am playing the confidence game I am much more confident I am alive if I listen to cops then if I don't and comments like yours seem to exude confidence in your ignorance. If gonna guess you’re not black, and therefore can’t speak for them about having confidence in police after all they’ve seen happen to people who look like them. 57 minutes ago, RochesterRob said: George Floyd was another who made things far too hard on himself. All you have to do is readily comply at the onset and let the body cams confirm your position in an arrest. The cops kill a man who was complying every step of the way confirms their guilt if serious injury or death results. It's no different for white people. If I start physically resisting a cop or small group of cops then I can only expect them to increase their physical effort to restrain me. If I reach into a part of my vehicle that a cop cannot ascertain the contents of it I can only assume that the cop thinks I my be reaching for a deadly weapon. As a matter of fact when pulled over for a small traffic infraction years ago I was going to produce my wallet to show my driver's license which was in a center console that was closed. The cop instructed me NOT to open the console but rather exit my vehicle then he would check the console for my wallet. I did not have tats, all kinds of exotic facial hair, or dress like a hoodlum. Just an ordinary guy and the cop still took a course of caution. Who knows? Maybe if the wallet was maybe in my pants pocket the cop may have not been so concerned. Yeah, Floyd made it hard on himself when he was pinned on the ground with a knee on him, repeating “I can’t breathe”. He should have remained quiet. ?
PastaJoe Posted August 27, 2020 Posted August 27, 2020 This may explain a source of the systemic racism in the Kenosha police department that led to the police thinking it’s ok to shoot an unarmed black man in the back.
Jauronimo Posted August 27, 2020 Posted August 27, 2020 11 minutes ago, PastaJoe said: This may explain a source of the systemic racism in the Kenosha police department that led to the police thinking it’s ok to shoot an unarmed black man in the back. ??? Hes completely against deputizing armed militia like Rittenhouse and said nothing about race in the second video.
shrader Posted August 27, 2020 Posted August 27, 2020 7 minutes ago, Jauronimo said: ??? Hes completely against deputizing armed militia like Rittenhouse and said nothing about race in the second video. He may have mentioned race and he may not have. It's tough to tell from that selectively edited quote. We're judging the book after reading only the last chapter, that's what we do all the time in this cell phone video world. We really need to train more people to have the initial reaction of "well what happened before they started filming". Sadly there's no ratings in that line of thinking. We need immediate gratification. 1 2
I-town Bills Posted August 27, 2020 Posted August 27, 2020 22 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: That wasn’t the question!!! Was 7 shots to the back the punishment deserved for the exact situation that you described?!? It’s a yes or no question... The NBA and everything else possible will shut down until we can get the attention of people who support such actions.
NoSaint Posted August 27, 2020 Posted August 27, 2020 (edited) 34 minutes ago, shrader said: He may have mentioned race and he may not have. It's tough to tell from that selectively edited quote. We're judging the book after reading only the last chapter, that's what we do all the time in this cell phone video world. We really need to train more people to have the initial reaction of "well what happened before they started filming". Sadly there's no ratings in that line of thinking. We need immediate gratification. to the second video— There’s some definite coded language in there. I’d be hard pressed to think of the last time I’ve heard someone talk about locking up a white guy before he knocks up 10 different women. Maybe an innocent flub but it sure won’t play well. i agree that often there’s more to the lead up and no need to race to conclusions on any individual incident but at this point people aren’t mad about split hairs or individual incidents. It’s the long and consistent pattern. I agree these individual officers deserve a very fair trial. I also understand why someone would jump to “not this again” without every detail. Because even if this singular one isn’t the one to hang the hat on we just had several that were and surely are about to have several more that do qualify. we could hyper analyze every call in the 04 season in super slo motion with the rule book out or accept that for 20 years it wasn’t a very good team. You know what I mean? Edited August 27, 2020 by NoSaint
Jauronimo Posted August 27, 2020 Posted August 27, 2020 8 minutes ago, NoSaint said: to the second video— There’s some definite coded language in there. I’d be hard pressed to think of the last time I’ve heard someone talk about locking up a white guy before he knocks up 10 different women. Maybe an innocent flub but it sure won’t play well. i agree that often there’s more to the lead up and no need to race to conclusions on any individual incident but at this point people aren’t mad about split hairs or individual incidents. It’s the long and consistent pattern. I agree these individual officers deserve a very fair trial. I also understand why someone would jump to “not this again” without every detail. I'd be hard pressed to recall the last time I heard someone talk about locking up a person of any race as a preventative measure for mass pregnancy. The legality of preventing future pregnancies by incarceration is questionable.
Orlando Buffalo Posted August 27, 2020 Posted August 27, 2020 I just read that the NBA is resuming tomorrow- what did this boycott show? They are already kneeling in protest do they think people will now go " wow that 48 hours changed my opinion"? What has changed?
NoSaint Posted August 27, 2020 Posted August 27, 2020 40 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said: did you find him interesting too? 11 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said: I just read that the NBA is resuming tomorrow- what did this boycott show? They are already kneeling in protest do they think people will now go " wow that 48 hours changed my opinion"? What has changed? There have been pretty substantial conversations around it. Whether any have an impact down the line, we will see.
RochesterRob Posted August 27, 2020 Posted August 27, 2020 2 hours ago, K-9 said: Out of hand indeed. I don’t think we can find a situation where an officer resorted to shooting for simple non compliance to a request. That’s the point; simple non compliance is not enough to justify use of deadly force. The only time a LEO should use deadly force is when his life or that of another is in immediate danger. While that’s the case in the vast majority of cases, it isn’t the case in ALL the cases. That is a failure in training, skill, discipline, and leadership from the top. And it hurts good police officers everywhere as a result. That’s a disservice to LEOs and the communities they are sworn to serve and protect. And that needs to be recognized and addressed. As it should be. Which is to say deadly force in response to simple non-compliance is not to be found nor should it ever come to be. Immediate danger sometimes comes down to perception versus obvious observation. The LEO does not always get the benefit of a weapon waved in front of him to make a judgement. 2
RochesterRob Posted August 27, 2020 Posted August 27, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, PastaJoe said: “Allegedly aggressively”? That’s quite an assumption. The video shows him walking to his car to go where his kids were. If gonna guess you’re not black, and therefore can’t speak for them about having confidence in police after all they’ve seen happen to people who look like them. Yeah, Floyd made it hard on himself when he was pinned on the ground with a knee on him, repeating “I can’t breathe”. He should have remained quiet. ? There was an interval of time with the interaction between the cops and Floyd where Floyd was not on the ground concerned for his well being. That was the time to simply comply and let any violence committed by the cops be dealt with by a lawyer or public defender. Would you have me believe the cops went from spotting Floyd to choking Floyd on the ground in a split second? Honest question to you.....do you dislike or hate cops and does it have to do with personal history? I remember kids hating cops when I was in school and it traced back to the parents. The parents simply did not believe in social order whether it had to do with the father being a wife beater or the mother being a drunk driver. If a parent is not compliant with such laws and are arrested by the cops are the kids justified in hating the cops? Edited August 27, 2020 by RochesterRob 1
GG Posted August 27, 2020 Posted August 27, 2020 1 hour ago, Jauronimo said: I'd be hard pressed to recall the last time I heard someone talk about locking up a person of any race as a preventative measure for mass pregnancy. The legality of preventing future pregnancies by incarceration is questionable. I believe that was taken care of by Sanger's brigade in the '60s.
KD in CA Posted August 27, 2020 Posted August 27, 2020 1 hour ago, Buffalo Timmy said: I just read that the NBA is resuming tomorrow- what did this boycott show? They are already kneeling in protest do they think people will now go " wow that 48 hours changed my opinion"? What has changed? So they aren't going to boycott the whole season? I guess NBA players' brave leadership only lasts until they risk losing a paycheck. 1
TheElectricCompany Posted August 27, 2020 Posted August 27, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, RochesterRob said: That was the time to simply comply and let any violence committed by the cops be dealt with by a lawyer or public defender. ? Sounds like "trust the system" . Our system incarcerates more citizens, per capita, than any other industrialized country. Edited August 27, 2020 by TheElectricCompany
Taro T Posted August 27, 2020 Posted August 27, 2020 21 hours ago, Logic said: When people tell me White Privilege doesn’t exist, I ask them how old they were the first time their parent sat them down and explained to them how not to get shot by the police at a traffic stop. Or when the last time was that they legitimately feared for their life when being pulled over in a traffic stop. The answer to both is that they — like me and every other white person in America — never had that conversation, never had that fear that a traffic stop might be the end for them. Different worlds. 16. Right before getting a learner's permit. My kids were taught that at about the same age. Something that IMHO should be taught by all parents. 5 hours ago, PastaJoe said: Latex gloves to prevent gun residue on the hands so it couldn’t be used to prove he was shooting. Obviously he planned on shooting and trying to get away with it. Perhaps that's the reason. Perhaps it was because he'd been scrubbing spray paint off walls earlier that day. Perhaps it was for some other reason. And, maybe the kid did plan on using the gun. Doubt he did, but that's speculation. What isn't speculation is that he initially was running away from the people he ended up shooting in both incidents. Maybe the falling each time was a ruse; suspect it was more of a trigger for switching from the initial "flight" response to the "holy #### these people want to kill me" sensation to "fight," with tragic consequences.
RochesterRob Posted August 27, 2020 Posted August 27, 2020 15 minutes ago, TheElectricCompany said: Sounds like "trust the system" . Our system incarcerates more citizens, per capita, than any other industrialized country. So you are saying to take the law into one's hands? Sounds like a recipe for disaster. This is not 1880 or 1915 or 1932. There is a mechanism in place to address police brutality. If you have been abused by the cops then use that mechanism.
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