Chef Jim Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 13 hours ago, Doc said: He wasn't chasing them. Again re-read what Duke wrote. I didn't say he was. You said it mattered not if he was or wasn't and in my mind it matters a lot. I'm not the rule of law of course. I'm just a juror in the court of public opinion. 13 hours ago, Dukestreetking said: @Chef Jim I want to work with you on this and...I don't want to sound pedantic. But very humble suggestion: start w the 4 basics of privileged self-defense. I've noted them up-thread. Once those are in mind, it will help you sift the wheat fr the chaff in this case (doesn't mean, per se, the jury won't convict...but they shouldn't). That said, I'll admit my bias: I am an absolute hawk on self-defense, as I believe the right arises from natural vice positive law. Read the Federalist papers to understand that position. So let's look at another scenario and see if it fits. I have no clue if it does but here goes. You and I are at a bar. We get in a fight which you initiate. You're beating the crap out of me but I get one good shot in and you fall to the ground hit your head and die. Do I have any liability in this at least in a manslaughter charge? And please don't think I'm on the side of those killed. I would have been on the roof of the building with a rifle and scope picking them off and laughing my ass off the whole time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 11 hours ago, Boatdrinks said: Who cares? He said he was there to protect property and was putting out fires. Regardless it’s irrelevant. He had every right to be there amongst the lawless rioters. They wanted to attack him because he wasn’t “ in their side”. He had every right to defend himself . He was there to protect a business. He found himself in the street. I have to go through this thread from last night. However if he found himself in the street he was no longer there to protect businesses he could be (or not) be looked at as the aggressor in this situation. Someone's coming down the street with a AR I myself my take my skateboard to his head in an act of self defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 This is why......... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 1 hour ago, Chef Jim said: I didn't say he was. You said it mattered not if he was or wasn't and in my mind it matters a lot. I'm not the rule of law of course. I'm just a juror in the court of public opinion. So let's look at another scenario and see if it fits. I have no clue if it does but here goes. You and I are at a bar. We get in a fight which you initiate. You're beating the crap out of me but I get one good shot in and you fall to the ground hit your head and die. Do I have any liability in this at least in a manslaughter charge? And please don't think I'm on the side of those killed. I would have been on the roof of the building with a rifle and scope picking them off and laughing my ass off the whole time. We know you're not. But it doesn't matter why he was in the street/if he was the aggressor, unless he was shooting at/assaulting them, which we know didn't happen. 1 hour ago, Chef Jim said: He was there to protect a business. He found himself in the street. I have to go through this thread from last night. However if he found himself in the street he was no longer there to protect businesses he could be (or not) be looked at as the aggressor in this situation. Someone's coming down the street with a AR I myself my take my skateboard to his head in an act of self defense. If you assault someone carrying an AR-15 with a skateboard instead of running for cover, you get what's coming to you. If you do decide to make that monumental mistake in the future, make sure you incapacitate the person. 41 minutes ago, B-Man said: This is why......... It's a stupid argument. Again, he had just as much right to be there as the dead dudes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 4 minutes ago, Doc said: It's a stupid argument. Again, he had just as much right to be there as the dead dudes. They HAVE to strike down the "you have a right to defend yourself" reality............no matter what The Narrative Is the Priority by Ben Shapiro According to the media, Kyle Rittenhouse was a white supremacist. According to the media, Kyle Rittenhouse was an active shooter. According to the media, Kyle Rittenhouse was a murderer. In reality, he was none of these. Kyle Rittenhouse was a 17-year-old young man who went to Kenosha, Wisconsin, in order to protect businesses and administer medical aid to those who needed it. He was chased down by Joseph Rosenbaum, a 36-year-old convicted child molester; he shot Rosenbaum when Rosenbaum grabbed for his gun. He was then chased down by Anthony Huber, 26, a man convicted of two felony counts of strangulation and suffering after pulling a knife on his brother and grandmother and choking his brother; Rittenhouse shot Huber when Huber tried to slam his skateboard into Rittenhouse’s head. Finally, Gaige Grosskreutz, 27, a member of a radical Antifa offshoot, approached Rittenhouse with a pistol in his hand; Rittenhouse shot him in the biceps. All of this was on tape. It was verified by witness testimony and physical evidence. Yet Rittenhouse was brought to trial anyway. He was brought to trial because his case became the center of a political firestorm. In September 2020, Joe Biden featured Rittenhouse in an ad decrying then-President Donald Trump’s supposed sympathy for white supremacists. Members of the Left declared that Rittenhouse was a stand-in for American racism, despite the fact that all three of the people Rittenhouse shot were white. Even after the prosecution presented its case — a case so weak that the prosecution’s own witnesses ended up supporting Rittenhouse’s self-defense case — members of the media continued to maintain that an exoneration for Rittenhouse would be yet another stain on America’s racial record. https://pjmedia.com/columns/benshapiro/2021/11/17/the-narrative-is-the-priority-n1533735 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 7 minutes ago, Doc said: We know you're not. But it doesn't matter why he was in the street/if he was the aggressor, unless he was shooting at/assaulting them, which we know didn't happen. If you assault someone carrying an AR-15 with a skateboard instead of running for cover, you get what's coming to you. If you do decide to make that monumental mistake in the future, make sure you incapacitate the person. So if he’s the aggressor in the street it matters not because whatever happens he’s acting in self defense? Hmmm I wonder if you’d feel the same if he was worn ANTIFA. And if I run for cover I get shot in the back. I’m fighting! Glad we never found ourselves in a foxhole together. 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 Just now, Chef Jim said: So if he’s the aggressor in the street it matters not because whatever happens he’s acting in self defense? Hmmm I wonder if you’d feel the same if he was worn ANTIFA. And if I run for cover I get shot in the back. I’m fighting! Glad we never found ourselves in a foxhole together. 😉 If he's acting aggressively but not physically assaulting me/shooting at me (in the back), I leave and get out of the situation. That was what killed Trayvon Martin's case for me, i.e. Zimmerman may have been acting aggressively but Martin had every chance to go inside his dad's house...but instead chose to fight him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 1 hour ago, B-Man said: This is why......... Was Kyle also part of a mob just one we back/support? 🤔 Just now, Doc said: If he's acting aggressively but not physically assaulting me/shooting at me (in the back), I leave and get out of the situation. That was what killed Trayvon Martin's case for me, i.e. Zimmerman may have been acting aggressively but Martin had every chance to go inside his dad's house...but instead chose to fight him. Dude is acting aggressively and dude’s carrying an AR and I’m “armed” with a skateboard I’m fighting. Just as y’all say those he shot got what was coming to them one could also say Kyle deserves to get his head bashed in with a skateboard. Bad situation all around but I have zero sympathy if that idiot ends up spending his life in prison. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 6 minutes ago, Chef Jim said: Was Kyle also part of a mob just one we back/support? 🤔 No. No repetitive questions for me thank you. I will post it again. "You are not under any moral obligation to sit back and watch a mob destroy a community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 12 minutes ago, Chef Jim said: Dude is acting aggressively and dude’s carrying an AR and I’m “armed” with a skateboard I’m fighting. Just as y’all say those he shot got what was coming to them one could also say Kyle deserves to get his head bashed in with a skateboard. Bad situation all around but I have zero sympathy if that idiot ends up spending his life in prison. And since he wasn't acting aggressively? You still think he should spend the rest of his life in prison? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCBills Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 MSNBC banned from the courthouse under allegations that they sent a reporter out to photograph the jurors…. Wow. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 Just now, SCBills said: MSNBC banned from the courthouse under allegations that they sent a reporter out to photograph the jurors…. Wow. Leftists are scum. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 35 minutes ago, B-Man said: No. No repetitive questions for me thank you. I will post it again. "You are not under any moral obligation to sit back and watch a mob destroy a community. Are we under any morale obligation to watch a guy walk down the street with an AR and just ignore it? Sorry dude. It's a debate and this in not a repetitive question. It's the next question in line. 33 minutes ago, Doc said: And since he wasn't acting aggressively? You still think he should spend the rest of his life in prison? Walking down the street with a loaded AR can be looked at as aggressive by some correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 17 minutes ago, Chef Jim said: Are we under any morale obligation to watch a guy walk down the street with an AR and just ignore it? Sorry dude. It's a debate and this in not a repetitive question. It's the next question in line. Walking down the street with a loaded AR can be looked at as aggressive by some correct? Why do you insist on asking hypothetical questions that didn’t happen? Take the facts given in the case and proceed with your questions from there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 14 minutes ago, Westside said: Why do you insist on asking hypothetical questions that didn’t happen? Take the facts given in the case and proceed with your questions from there. It didn't happen? Was Kyle in the street or not with a loaded weapon? That is a FACT of the case. Can I not make the case that if you walk down the street with a loaded AR you get what you deserve? Brining this upon himself, in my mind, greatly reduces the self defense claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 6 minutes ago, Chef Jim said: It didn't happen? Was Kyle in the street or not with a loaded weapon? That is a FACT of the case. Can I not make the case that if you walk down the street with a loaded AR you get what you deserve? Brining this upon himself, in my mind, greatly reduces the self defense claim. Well, it’s well known he was being chased. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
716er Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 Just now, Westside said: Well, it’s well known he was being chased. He was in the street with a loaded AR before and after the chase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 6 minutes ago, Westside said: Well, it’s well known he was being chased. Funny how many of the "conservatives" here drop their "personal responsibility" mantra so quickly and easily. I don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 3 minutes ago, Chef Jim said: Funny how many of the "conservatives" here drop their "personal responsibility" mantra so quickly and easily. I don't. What an overstatement. Nothing to be "proud" of. He was showing responsibility. Helping protect businesses, cleaning up, and helping those hurt. But if he then walks in the street, holding his gun in a safe manner, well then, he deserves what he gets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 3 minutes ago, B-Man said: What an overstatement. Nothing to be "proud" of. He was showing responsibility. Helping protect businesses, cleaning up, and helping those hurt. But if he then walks in the street, holding his gun in a safe manner, well then, he deserves what he gets. Correct. One person's responsibility is another's stupidity. I'm going stupid. You show up at a riot scene with a loaded AR and get your ***** brains potentially bashed in don't come crying to me by claiming self defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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