Oops....Dolphins lose Rookie Weaver to browns

[brianthomas]

1 hour ago, BarleyNY said:

Or they could’ve kept him on their roster for another week 

 

14 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

Yes that’s exactly what they did. But they could have waited until 9/5 and he would not have been exposed to waivers before going to IR. That was the blunder. 

Yep, as i thought i stated right here:

 

17 hours ago, brianthomas said:

Yep i think so, as long as its before the cut date from 90 players to 53, this is the route they had to take. If they had waited til after the cutdown, they couldve put him on IR.

 

Rochesterfan explained it great. Something i discovered only after finding more about it in the link i had previously shared here https://www.si.com/nfl/dolphins/news/miami-dolphins-decision-to-waive-injured-curtis-weaver-and-what-it-means

 

Edited August 26, 2020 by brianthomas

[ColoradoBills]

5 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

I believe the idea is that the player has to agree to the designation to try and help prevent gaming the system.  The team cannot just IR the player.  
 

Also if they IR at this point - it is for the season - so if a player feels he is going to only miss a few weeks - there is little incentive to agree to full season IR.  So many players at this point want to wait - make the final roster and then go on IR with a designation to return.
 

PUP I thought was only a pre training camp designation or if a player is injured away from the field.  One training camp hits all injuries are considered IR type injuries and they have to decide what to.  
 

Similar to Josh Norman right now for the Bills - he is injured, but counting against the roster.  They can not free up that space without deciding that the injury will force him to miss at least 6 weeks - then they could IR him, but he is done for the season.

 

I definitely think some teams do “game the system” and use an injury like this to IR a young player and give him a year to really learn and grow, but I think there has to be some mutual respect and understanding between player and team. Heck - I think the Bills may have used it last year to stash Joseph with a shoulder injury.  
 

I think the system worked perfectly for this - a young player with a minor injury that will cause him to miss 4 weeks or so.  Years ago - The team could just stash him on IR and prevent him from playing for 2020.  Now - they either had to hold on to him until after training camp or take a chance and waive him and bring him back as injured where they can then reactivate him as needed.  If you think he is a cornerstone - you hold him and IR him to return - remember this come with the fact that not only do you lose him for the last 2 weeks, but he has to make you final roster - meaning you are cutting someone else that you (and other teams) may value.  If you want the position- you waive him and take a chance.  

 

Great job explaining all of the options/conditions.

[ColoradoBills]

@Rochesterfan I got 2 questions (if you know or anyone else) about all of this.

 

IF Weaver would of cleared waivers could he return sometime during the season to play for Miami?

 

Isn't there also some sort of options for the Waived/Injured player to sign with another team once he is healthy?

 

 

[BarleyNY]

19 minutes ago, brianthomas said:

 

Yep, as i thought i stated right here:

 

Rochesterfan explained it great. Something i discovered only after finding more about it in the link i had previously shared here https://www.si.com/nfl/dolphins/news/miami-dolphins-decision-to-waive-injured-curtis-weaver-and-what-it-means

 

Rochesterfan doesn’t have it quite right.  It works like this prior to final cut downs:

Major injury or veteran player - teams can place player directly on IR.

 

Minor injury of non-veteran player (less than 4 accrued seasons) - teams must either keep player on active roster until after final cut down date or subject player to waivers (with injury designation) prior to placing player on IR. 
 

That’s why Cleveland could place rookie 2nd rounder Delpit directly into IR with a blown out Achilles while Miami either had to try to sneak Weaver (minor foot injury) through waivers or keep him until 4 pm on 9/5.  Pretty dumb of Miami actually.

Edited August 26, 2020 by BarleyNY

[ColoradoBills]

10 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

Rochesterfan doesn’t have it quite right.  It works like this prior to final cut downs:

Major injury or veteran player - teams can place player directly on IR.

 

Minor injury of non-veteran player (less than 4 accrued seasons) - teams must either keep player on active roster until after final cut down date or subject player to waivers (with injury designation) prior to placing player on IR. 
 

That’s why Cleveland could place rookie 2nd rounder Delpit directly into IR with a blown out Achilles while Miami either had to try to sneak Weaver (minor foot injury) through waivers or keep him until 4 pm on 9/5.  Pretty dumb of Miami actually.

 

Not sure you are right about vets.

It's my understanding that a vet (with a major injury) of course can go right to IR but during the off season the vet must stay on the

roster and get put on IR after cutdowns to be "eligible to return".

 

Once the season starts everyone goes on IR directly and is eligible to return.

 

If not then why is Feliciano not already on IR if he can return?

[BarleyNY]

33 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Not sure you are right about vets.

It's my understanding that a vet (with a major injury) of course can go right to IR but during the off season the vet must stay on the

roster and get put on IR after cutdowns to be "eligible to return".

 

Once the season starts everyone goes on IR directly and is eligible to return.

 

If not then why is Feliciano not already on IR if he can return?

NFL Rule Change Doc

 

The clause I read is on the bottom of page 32.   It only addresses which players are subject to waivers when sent to IR.  It does not have info on who is eligible to be designated to return.  IIRC you are correct that a player has to be on the 53 man roster prior to IR to be eligible for that, which would make sense. 

[Manther]

On 8/25/2020 at 4:46 PM, DrDawkinstein said:

Classic Dolphins.

 

When you're getting out-maneuvered by Cleveland, it's time to pack it in.

Out maneuvered by Cleveland..maybe out maneuvered themselves.

[Old Coot]

Shades of our Jack Kemp acquisition.  We hornswoggled the Chargers on that one.  They tried to sneak him through waivers over a weekend.  Read the story here:

 

http://www.profootballresearchers.org/archives/Website_Files/Coffin_Corner/22-03-853.pdf

[Nanker]

7 hours ago, Old Coot said:

Shades of our Jack Kemp acquisition.  We hornswoggled the Chargers on that one.  They tried to sneak him through waivers over a weekend.  Read the story here:

 

http://www.profootballresearchers.org/archives/Website_Files/Coffin_Corner/22-03-853.pdf

It’s how we got Tasker from Houston too. 
 

I remember Bill Walsh complained to The League about The Bills stashing young players on IR illegally. 

[Dexter_Almighty]

On 8/25/2020 at 9:23 PM, Golden Goat said:

I'm good with anything that makes the Dolphins suck more. ?

Agree! Dolphins suck.

[Doc]

2 hours ago, Nanker said:

It’s how we got Tasker from Houston too. 
 

I remember Bill Walsh complained to The League about The Bills stashing young players on IR illegally. 

 

You sure it was the Bills?  I think it was the Washington Football team.

[Nanker]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

You sure it was the Bills?  I think it was the Washington Football team.

Yep. The Bills. Could have been some others too. The League tightened up the rules as a result. IIRC

[YoloinOhio]

On 8/26/2020 at 7:58 AM, Rochesterfan said:

 

I have not seen anything that said he was not coming back.  
 

I believe the Dolphin thought it was a 4-6 week injury.  He could be ready by the start of the 2nd quarter of games potentially.  The ideal situation would be IR designation to return.  They used that last year on a rookie LB with a similar injury.

 

He is currently still on the Browns active roster - now they have the same choice as the Dolphins.  Do you hold on through final cuts and then IR him to return or at some point do you need a spot and you have to waive him also.

I totally agree - I would think with all of the former Pats on the Dolphins - this would have been simple.  Keep him on the roster - cut a guy that you know will not sign elsewhere and then IR him at that point.

 

Seems a bit off, but without seeing any practices - it is hard to know.  Maybe Miami was not a great fit for him and his attitude showed that and they felt it was easier to move on.  I just do not know.  
 

Seems like a huge blunder, but it is an experienced FO - so there must have been some thought behind it.

When he got waived  I believe it was reported that he wouldn’t play this year. Then when the browns claimed him, the same thing was reported. Now that the background on why he couldn’t go straight to IR like Delpit could, seems like the injury doesn’t fall in the season ending category for the nfl. But that was just the belief at the time. 

[Rochesterfan]

17 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

When he got waived  I believe it was reported that he wouldn’t play this year. Then when the browns claimed him, the same thing was reported. Now that the background on why he couldn’t go straight to IR like Delpit could, seems like the injury doesn’t fall in the season ending category for the nfl. But that was just the belief at the time. 

 

I hear you and maybe there have been other things I’ve missed, but I was surprised because the few things I had seen were 4-6 weeks and similar injury to the Dolphins rookie LB last year that did the IR designation to return thing.
 

The whole thing seems weird and I have yet to seen anything from Cleveland on the move - so I am assuming they are holding him till cutdown day and going to try to IR him to bring back later.