Fish will have 13K fans for opener v. Bills

[njbuff]

And about 10,000 of the them will be Bills fans.

[machine gun kelly]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

 

I quoted the article that proved that that particular hospital chain for the second time (since COVID) stopped doing elective surgery.  This, as I also pointed out, led to huge financial losses for the hospital which led to the laying off of staff at Jackson Memorial--the hospital the poster was talking about. 

 

To recap for you: hospital stops elective surgery.  Hospital suffers massive financial losses.  Hospital lays off workers.  Hospital has fewer workers.  See?

 

 

It's a 2 month old article ......because that's when they announced they were again not doing elective surgery because of of Florida COVID.  Only in the past week have they restarted (which I also stated). You want a more recent article about an event that happened in the beginning of July?   The poster said that outpatient surgery never stopped at that hospital.  Every article at that time says otherwise.

 

What is the hard part?

 

 

 

 

If it helps Weo, I have a number of friends in medical device sales and it has sucked in FL for the lack of elective procedures.  It a,so has been tough on patients as things that might not be life saving, but their QOL is less because they can’t get several procedures stinks.

 

I did think McD was flamed yesterday on NFLR for his comments, and that tool Weiss was leading the charge.  I didn’t think it was that bad, but uncharacteristically not smart for someone like McD who usually is very smart in his dealings with the media.

[PrimeTime101]

On 8/24/2020 at 10:02 AM, MAJBobby said:

and in 14 days 13k Fans will test positive for COVID, in the COVID epicenter of South Florida

yea well i dont like talking down on anyone when it comes to covid. 

[soflabillsfan1]

20 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

So, NYS protective measures helped them get to the other side.....but it's no a model that other states could use (MONTHS later) to prevent getting slammed? 

 

That's not a very persuasive argument.

 

 

 

 

 

It's your opinion that protective measures helped get them on the other side.  I disagree.  I think massive infection rates and death helped get them on the other side.  Sweden never locked down, never closed schools and they're really not even wearing masks and they got to the other side without close to the death rate NY had.  That's a real success story.  There seems to be this narrative that FL could have avoided a spike in infections when they reopened.  I don't think that's true.  I haven't really seen a state that didn't get hit early that reopened without a spike in infections. Miami Dade county, Florida's most affected county locked down all non-essential business for 2 months. They've had a mask mandate since April 9th.  What are they supposed to do, stay locked down forever?  It's a joke.  FL has done quite well.  Everything is open state wide, we've just hit our lowest daily covid case numbers in 2 months, we have 1/3 of the deaths of NY,  we didn't have the massively avoidable nursing homes deaths,  our unemployment rate is much lower, people are flocking here, not leaving, we're in a lot better shape financially with a lot less debt, it's not even close.

[BullBuchanan]

On 8/24/2020 at 9:26 AM, soflabillsfan1 said:

Desantis has done a great job.  Unlike the guy you voted for who was found in a pile of piss and vomit in a hotel room with a male prostitute and meth.

Meanwhile in the real world

https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/96dd742462124fa0b38ddedb9b25e429

[BullBuchanan]

33 minutes ago, soflabillsfan1 said:

It's your opinion that protective measures helped get them on the other side.  I disagree.  I think massive infection rates and death helped get them on the other side.  Sweden never locked down, never closed schools and they're really not even wearing masks and they got to the other side without close to the death rate NY had.  That's a real success story.  There seems to be this narrative that FL could have avoided a spike in infections when they reopened.  I don't think that's true.  I haven't really seen a state that didn't get hit early that reopened without a spike in infections. Miami Dade county, Florida's most affected county locked down all non-essential business for 2 months. They've had a mask mandate since April 9th.  What are they supposed to do, stay locked down forever?  It's a joke.  FL has done quite well.  Everything is open state wide, we've just hit our lowest daily covid case numbers in 2 months, we have 1/3 of the deaths of NY,  we didn't have the massively avoidable nursing homes deaths,  our unemployment rate is much lower, people are flocking here, not leaving, we're in a lot better shape financially with a lot less debt, it's not even close.

So, you want to point to the way Sweden handles things when it benefits your cause, but I'm guessing you probably hate their national healthcare?

Do you know that Sweden has a population density of 25 per square kilometer, while NYC has 38,242 per square kilometer? The fact that Sweden killed 570 of its citizens per million, is similar to countries with 10X, 20X or more in population density, like the UK.

[RoyBatty is alive]

5 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

So, you want to point to the way Sweden handles things when it benefits your cause, but I'm guessing you probably hate their national healthcare?

Do you know that Sweden has a population density of 25 per square kilometer, while NYC has 38,242 per square kilometer? The fact that Sweden killed 570 of its citizens per million, is similar to countries with 10X, 20X or more in population density, like the UK.

 

Uh i see, you want to use the population density of just NYC not the entire state but at the same time you want to use the entire country of Sweeden.  Be intellectually honest and use the death rate per million  in NYC and its population density versus the death per million  in Stockholm and it population density.

[mannc]

On 8/24/2020 at 6:49 AM, SCBills said:

I'm fine with this, but it does make me frustrated if we have to open with no fans.

We don’t “have to open with no fans.”  There is zero science behind any of it.  If we don’t have fans at Bills Stadium, it will be because someone in the organization CHOSE to lock out the fans, for no good reason.

[BullBuchanan]

26 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

 

Uh i see, you want to use the population density of just NYC not the entire state but at the same time you want to use the entire country of Sweeden.  Be intellectually honest and use the death rate per million  in NYC and its population density versus the death per million  in Stockholm and it population density.

Stockholm population density 4,800 sqKM. 2384 deaths, 23101 cases, death rate 10.3%, 244.5 deaths per 100k

NYC: pop density: 38,242 sqKM, 23,662 deaths, 237,032 cases, death rate 9.9%, 282 deaths per 100k

Edited August 25, 2020 by BullBuchanan
reorganized the order

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, machine gun kelly said:

If it helps Weo, I have a number of friends in medical device sales and it has sucked in FL for the lack of elective procedures.  It a,so has been tough on patients as things that might not be life saving, but their QOL is less because they can’t get several procedures stinks.

 

I did think McD was flamed yesterday on NFLR for his comments, and that tool Weiss was leading the charge.  I didn’t think it was that bad, but uncharacteristically not smart for someone like McD who usually is very smart in his dealings with the media.

 

This exact thing happened in many states--elective surgeries stopped by order of the governor.  The financial impact has been massive for all hospitals/hospital systems.

 

These guys are struggling with this fact and I don't know why.

 

1 hour ago, soflabillsfan1 said:

It's your opinion that protective measures helped get them on the other side.  I disagree.  I think massive infection rates and death helped get them on the other side.  Sweden never locked down, never closed schools and they're really not even wearing masks and they got to the other side without close to the death rate NY had.  That's a real success story.  There seems to be this narrative that FL could have avoided a spike in infections when they reopened.  I don't think that's true.  I haven't really seen a state that didn't get hit early that reopened without a spike in infections. Miami Dade county, Florida's most affected county locked down all non-essential business for 2 months. They've had a mask mandate since April 9th.  What are they supposed to do, stay locked down forever?  It's a joke.  FL has done quite well.  Everything is open state wide, we've just hit our lowest daily covid case numbers in 2 months, we have 1/3 of the deaths of NY,  we didn't have the massively avoidable nursing homes deaths,  our unemployment rate is much lower, people are flocking here, not leaving, we're in a lot better shape financially with a lot less debt, it's not even close.

 

 

Yeah, they did very well--in not a lot of time and despite seeing how other whole states controlled  massive outbreaks months ago, Florida quickly became the state with the most cases in the country.  That's quite an achievement.  Desantis was being VERY modest in describing this grand outcome as only a "blip"!

 

And yes--you have very astutely noticed, NYS did NOT reverse it's pandemic fortune by statewide shutdown and a specific plan for reopening each region based on specific outcomes----it was "massive infection rates and death" that got them out of that hole!!  That should be the CDC plan going forward:  forget new treatments and vaccine development (vaccines are too dangerous anyway, amirite??)---they should just let "massive infection and death" run its course and everything will be just fine---like in NYS!

 

And Sweden, you say?  Tell us all: on, say, March 15th, how many daily international flights were bringing travelers from Asia?  Italy?  Spain? France? The UK? How many Swedes live on typical NYC sized block?  You must know the answers to these questions since you made the comparison.

 

 

 

Edited August 25, 2020 by Mr. WEO

[RoyBatty is alive]

12 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Stockholm population density 4,800 sqKM. 2384 deaths, 23101 cases, death rate 10.3%, deaths per million, 244.5 deaths per 100k

NYC: pop desnity: 38,242 sqKM, 282 deaths per 100k, 237,032 cases, 23,662 deaths, 9.9% death rate

 

10.3% death rate?  What?  So you divided deaths by number of covid cases, borderline meaningless.  Test everyone in both the cities and then you could have a more valid comparison/point.

 

The population of NYC is 8.3 mill, Stockholm just under 1 million so lets be generous and say NYC has 9x the population and assuming your death numbers are correct the equivalent deaths in Stockholm would be 21,456 (9 times 2,384) versus total NYC covid deaths of 23,662.

 

There is a lot more than naively totaling up covid deaths, with these lockdowns comes tremendous increases in depression, alcoholism, drug abuse, to say nothing of the economic collapse. 

[Jamie Nails]

Sooooooo. Who is going to try to go to the game?

[QCity]

31 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

 

The population of NYC is 8.3 mill, Stockholm just under 1 million so lets be generous and say NYC has 9x the population and assuming your death numbers are correct the equivalent deaths in Stockholm would be 21,456 (9 times 2,384) versus total NYC covid deaths of 23,662.

 

 

 

The scaling of contact rates with population density for infectious diseases is not linear.

[RoyBatty is alive]

1 minute ago, QCity said:

 

The scaling of contact rates with population density for infectious diseases is not linear.

 

Of course, that specific point wasnt about density and there is  no such thing as  mathematical perfection in comparing the two, have to use broad assumptions.

[RiotAct]

1 hour ago, mannc said:

We don’t “have to open with no fans.”  There is zero science behind any of it.  If we don’t have fans at Bills Stadium, it will be because someone in the organization CHOSE to lock out the fans, for no good reason.

I mean, to be fair, the chances of someone catching something and dying at a game are a lot greater if you actually allow people to attend said game.

 

That said, you have to pull the trigger at some point.  The whole “no mass gatherings because they’re too dangerous” song and dance can’t go on forever.

[soflabillsfan1]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, they did very well--in not a lot of time and despite seeing how other whole states controlled  massive outbreaks months ago, Florida quickly became the state with the most cases in the country.  That's quite an achievement.  Desantis was being VERY modest in describing this grand outcome as only a "blip"!

 

And yes--you have very astutely noticed, NYS did NOT reverse it's pandemic fortune by statewide shutdown and a specific plan for reopening each region based on specific outcomes----it was "massive infection rates and death" that got them out of that hole!!  That should be the CDC plan going forward:  forget new treatments and vaccine development (vaccines are too dangerous anyway, amirite??)---they should just let "massive infection and death" run its course and everything will be just fine---like in NYS!

 

And Sweden, you say?  Tell us all: on, say, March 15th, how many daily international flights were bringing travelers from Asia?  Italy?  Spain? France? The UK? How many Swedes live on typical NYC sized block?  You must know the answers to these questions since you made the comparison.

 

 

 

It's funny how the narrative shift was to cases once the testing had become 5 times more abundant in this country.  FL cases and NY cases are not remotely comparable.  Mount Sinai hospital is estimating NY was peaking around 85K new cases a day in late March.  Florida's one day peak was 15k cases.  NY has suffered many more cases of Covid.  The massive death toll tells us that.

 

The NY death chart mirrors epidemilogist's chart of what would happen if no safety precautions were taken.  Massive infection and death followed by a steep decline in both.  NY just decided to hurt their small businesses on top of that.  You act as in FL didn't have a specific regional plan for reopening.  We did.  I live in an area that had their phase 2 reopening pushed back because the infection and hospitalization metrics weren't where they needed to be.  Again, to assume states who avoided the first wave of covid could avoid spikes in infections after reopening is nonsensical.  The point was to have hospitals ready and not have them get overloaded and guess what, that's what happened, no matter how hard the media wanted to spin it. I never said NY did it the right way.  They did it the quickest way but the loss of life was substantial.  I would never recommend the way they did it.  They really didn't have much of a choice bc it hit them first but again, to say they got it under control is misleading imo.  They basically did Sweden's plan without meaning to.  I only brought Sweden up bc they got on the other side of covid by really doing nothing but let the virus run it's course, which is what NY unintentionally let happen also IMO.

1 hour ago, BullBuchanan said:

So, you want to point to the way Sweden handles things when it benefits your cause, but I'm guessing you probably hate their national healthcare?

Do you know that Sweden has a population density of 25 per square kilometer, while NYC has 38,242 per square kilometer? The fact that Sweden killed 570 of its citizens per million, is similar to countries with 10X, 20X or more in population density, like the UK.

If you think National healthcare looked great after what happened in Italy, Spain and the UK, then you might want to go for a brain scan.

Edited August 25, 2020 by soflabillsfan1

[machine gun kelly]

Meanwhile, back at the ranch if you want to go or travel to go and take that risk, I don’t care as I won’t, and think it’s stupid to have fans as it is an increased risk.  You don’t go and you enjoy from the comfort of you’re own home or socially distanced at a sports restaurant, great.  The biggest risk I would take is to maybe go to a nearby Wild Wings as they have the ticket, you have to wear a mask unless you have food in front of you and seating is far apart.

 

I still contend this will get shut down by governors soon enough when fans in seats is somehow leaked to positive tests as it doesn’t just affect the person, but everyone they infect thereafter.  I do my best to be a considerate person and as much as I don’t want to get sick, I would feel terrible if I were to get others sick simply due to my selfish desire to go to a game when there are alternatives.  That’s my opinion.  I just don’t want to continue with the never ending debates over the disease rates etc.  Do you’re homework and believe what you want.

[mannc]

43 minutes ago, RiotAct said:

I mean, to be fair, the chances of someone catching something and dying at a game are a lot greater if you actually allow people to attend said game.

 

That said, you have to pull the trigger at some point.  The whole “no mass gatherings because they’re too dangerous” song and dance can’t go on forever.

There is absolutely zero evidence to support this statement, especially if we are talking about a quarter full, outdoor stadium, where people are spaced apart.  Pure superstition.

 

With regard to your statement that this sad state of affairs "can't go on forever", well, I wish that were true, but the current restrictions no longer constitute a reasonable response to any actual public health threat, and they probably never did.  The population has been driven to hysteria by massive disinformation and flat-out scare tactics from the media.  Things will not be returning to normal any time soon...  

Edited August 25, 2020 by mannc

[BullBuchanan]

1 hour ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

10.3% death rate?  What?  So you divided deaths by number of covid cases, borderline meaningless.  Test everyone in both the cities and then you could have a more valid comparison/point.

 

The population of NYC is 8.3 mill, Stockholm just under 1 million so lets be generous and say NYC has 9x the population and assuming your death numbers are correct the equivalent deaths in Stockholm would be 21,456 (9 times 2,384) versus total NYC covid deaths of 23,662.

 

There is a lot more than naively totaling up covid deaths, with these lockdowns comes tremendous increases in depression, alcoholism, drug abuse, to say nothing of the economic collapse. 

I supplied you with multiple data points knowing you'd cherrypick to fit your agenda. Go ahead and ignore death rate. Mortality per capita still stands. You can't just multiply the deaths based on population, because it's known that population density plays  a massive role, and the impact of it does not scale linearly. 

Stop pretending you care about the science when you're clearly trying to promote a political agenda. You can't be depressed or addicted to drugs if you're dead. That's not even taking into account the long-term disabilities caused by the disease. People that are going to become alcoholics because they have to wear a mask and socially distance, or even because they lose their jobs, are going to be exposed to countless other opportunities for that through the rest of their lives. You treat those people for the underlying cause of those problems. That underlying cause is not COVID. COVID has directly caused death, disability, and job loss, and those are things that can be measured and addressed.

How much did you care about working class people suffering from a poor economy, or those from substance abuse before COVID came around? If you actually care about fixing those issues, progressives will welcome you with open arms.

1 hour ago, soflabillsfan1 said:

If you think National healthcare looked great after what happened in Italy, Spain and the UK, then you might want to go for a brain scan.

If I lived in a country with National Healthcare maybe I would.

Why would what happened in Europe make me think that national healthcare is at all a bad thing? Did survivors walk away with millions of dollars in debt? 

[The Frankish Reich]

On 8/24/2020 at 8:28 AM, BUFFALOTONE said:

I believe the nurses and doctors who work at Broward General and Jackson Memorial you know the ones on the front lines. I have friends in both hospitals and they are laying off nurses due to how slow they are. Now these hospitals due to their size are the counties hub for Covid treatment, there are def cases there I won't argue that but its not the triage center they are making it out to be. This is a serious thing if you have serious issues or a weak immune system. I deal with testing clinics daily and this is always the hot topic, if you see alerts from the Sun/Orlando Sentinel about the daily death toll open the link and read it, it states "this information was taken over the course of several weeks" not 24 hour period, ye tthey run the death ticker like the NYSE. Cmon man. 

He was actually found in vomit with a male prostitute and drugs, what else do you need to know? He went into rehab ...

You know what they say: if you are preoccupied with a male prostitute and lying in a pool of vomit, at least you aren't actively doing harm to the people of your state.

EDIT: I am not opposed to having fans present in an open air stadium (and about 1/5 of capacity doesn't sound outrageous) provided the plans for spacing them, getting them in and out, into the concessions and bathrooms for fluid intake and outflow purposes, etc., are adequate. I just kinda doubt they will be.

And interesting data point from baseball: early returns suggest a greatly diminished home field advantage with no fans. Given the different configurations of baseball stadiums (as opposed to the cookie cutter football fields) I'm surprised by this.

Edited August 25, 2020 by The Frankish Reich