Logic Posted August 23, 2020 Posted August 23, 2020 (edited) 20 minutes ago, whatdrought said: Ah yes, the “I believe all things the government and government scientists say because I, unlike you, don’t want to see grandmother killed.” You are far superior to those of us who question what the government says and doesn’t take their inconsistent, back and forth, up and down commands as gospel. THAT’S your defense? That the government is making it all up? That the 175,000 deaths didn’t actually happen? And then, aside from that, your other defense is to snidely act as though the deaths, if they did happen (spoiler alert: they did), don’t matter because it’s just grandma? The callousness and ignorance of this stance is astonishing. I’ll go with facts, science, reason, and compassion. You can have your conspiracy theories and cold-heartedness. By the way, I actually DID lose my grandmother to COVID. Please do go on about the government lying, though. Edited August 23, 2020 by Logic 3 1
whatdrought Posted August 23, 2020 Posted August 23, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Logic said: THAT’S your defense? That the government is making it all up? That the 175,000 deaths didn’t actually happen? And then, aside from that, your other defense is to snidely act as though the deaths, if they did happen (spoiler alert: they did), don’t matter because it’s just grandma? The callousness and ignorance of this stance is astonishing. I’ll go with facts, science, reason, and compassion. You can have your conspiracy theories and cold-heartedness. There you go, doubling down on emotion. In what part of my post did I say the deaths didn’t happen? Straw men are good for scaring off crows, but not for debate. As I’ve said in other posts, the deaths are happening and they’re tragic. That being said, the response by the government at all levels has been ridiculous and completely wishy-washy. From changing their tune about masks and saying “it’s okay, we were lying earlier” to dumping covid cases in nursing homes. I can care about the deaths and about grandma while also not letting emotion run my brain- I’d have thought someone with such a moniker could as well, but here we are. And I’m very sorry to hear about your grandmother. Edited August 23, 2020 by whatdrought 3
YoloinOhio Posted August 23, 2020 Author Posted August 23, 2020 1 hour ago, fansince88 said: Agree. I think the flexibility to bring up PS players was built for this. Sweeney injured again? What now? Same ongoing Sweeney injury (foot) 1
Logic Posted August 23, 2020 Posted August 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, whatdrought said: There you go, doubling down on emotion. In what part of my post did I say the deaths didn’t happen? Straw men are good for scaring off crows, but not for debate. As I’ve said in other posts, the deaths are happening and they’re tragic. That being said, the response by the government at all levels has been ridiculous and completely wishy-washy. From changing their tune about masks and saying “it’s okay, we were lying earlier” to dumping covid cases in nursing homes. I can care about the deaths and about grandma while also not letting emotion run my brain- I’d have thought someone with such a moniker could as well, but here we are. So, just to be clear, you AGREE that 175,000 Americans have died from COVID and that: The U.S., which accounts for less than 5% of the world population, leads all other countries in global coronavirus infections and deaths. The nation represents more than 22% of global coronavirus deaths and more than 25% of infections as of Wednesday, according to Johns Hopkins University data. Right? Because if you agree with those two FACTS, it would seem difficult to conclude that the US is “doing fine”. 3
Buffalo716 Posted August 23, 2020 Posted August 23, 2020 58 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: Shhh. Don’t let @Doc see this.? I think we are probably screwed if Fromm has to Play too
NoSaint Posted August 23, 2020 Posted August 23, 2020 3 hours ago, whatdrought said: So we’re seeing a lab under scrutiny for returning a huge chunk of false-positives because the Multibillion dollar industry was (presumably) able to re-test or relay on additional information to say “wait, we really don’t think these guys are positive” Makes you wonder how many false positives are happening in the world at large that aren’t being caught. I don’t think you and I are wondering about it in the same way at all.
whatdrought Posted August 23, 2020 Posted August 23, 2020 1 minute ago, Logic said: So, just to be clear, you AGREE that 175,000 Americans have died from COVID and that: The U.S., which accounts for less than 5% of the world population, leads all other countries in global coronavirus infections and deaths. The nation represents more than 22% of global coronavirus deaths and more than 25% of infections as of Wednesday, according to Johns Hopkins University data. Right? Because if you agree with those two FACTS, it would seem difficult to conclude that the US is “doing fine”. I agree that 175,000 people have died who at one point or another tested positive for covid-19. I think the number is unreliable when you consider co-morbities and bad reporting. (Though I’m sure there are some un-reported as well, so it’s maybe a wash.) I am sure the statistics you’re listing are fine and accurate, but they more utterly useless. If you look at this data from JH you see that not only is our per capita more to the middle of the pack, but our fatality rate is way lower than all the other “civilized countries” you would hold up as “doing fine.” Canada, UK, Spain, France, etc. https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality 2 1
Johnnycage46 Posted August 23, 2020 Posted August 23, 2020 So glad to hear Josh (and hopefully the rest of the boys) were false positives. Really hope this all gets sorted and can be avoided for ANY team per the protocols in place (i.e. could end up canceling an entire weekend of regular season if it happens in-season). Guess it's better it's happening now rather than in a month or so. 2
Franco_92 Posted August 23, 2020 Posted August 23, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, whatdrought said: I agree that 175,000 people have died who at one point or another tested positive for covid-19. I think the number is unreliable when you consider co-morbities and bad reporting. (Though I’m sure there are some un-reported as well, so it’s maybe a wash.) I am sure the statistics you’re listing are fine and accurate, but they more utterly useless. If you look at this data from JH you see that not only is our per capita more to the middle of the pack, but our fatality rate is way lower than all the other “civilized countries” you would hold up as “doing fine.” Canada, UK, Spain, France, etc. https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality And the genetic similarity of this virus to other coronaviruses (and length of time it spends in the bloodstream after you've recovered) make true death counts impossible to gauge, along with reasons that might make us UNDERCOUNT deaths in some cases. The raw number itself, even divided by population count, is an utterly foolish and unscientific comparison tool. Same thing goes with already-present T-Cell immunity through the experience of many other SARS like viruses in the Pacific Rim over the last couple of decades. This is incredibly non-uniform globally and certainly has an impact on nation-by-nation comparisons. Lung receptors also vary depending on genetics/race/prevalence of smoking cigs, and age differences between nations are large too. America is also very fat. This virus is an infinite-variable phenomenon that people are screeching about by pointing at the most ridiculous and innocuous things. People pretending we were a simple legislative decision and simple human behavior away from making our numbers better are the most damaging kind of people there are in discourse. Edited August 23, 2020 by arcane
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted August 23, 2020 Posted August 23, 2020 3 hours ago, whatdrought said: So we’re seeing a lab under scrutiny for returning a huge chunk of false-positives because the Multibillion dollar industry was (presumably) able to re-test or relay on additional information to say “wait, we really don’t think these guys are positive” Makes you wonder how many false positives are happening in the world at large that aren’t being caught. A lot. 1
Logic Posted August 23, 2020 Posted August 23, 2020 (edited) 13 minutes ago, whatdrought said: I agree that 175,000 people have died who at one point or another tested positive for covid-19. I think the number is unreliable when you consider co-morbities and bad reporting. (Though I’m sure there are some un-reported as well, so it’s maybe a wash.) I am sure the statistics you’re listing are fine and accurate, but they more utterly useless. If you look at this data from JH you see that not only is our per capita more to the middle of the pack, but our fatality rate is way lower than all the other “civilized countries” you would hold up as “doing fine.” Canada, UK, Spain, France, etc. https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality I appreciate your response and perspective. I have always enjoyed your contributions to this forum. I disagree with your contention about the usefulness of the statistics I posted. I also disagree with the tactic of seeking to lessen the impact of the amount of Americans COVID has killed by passing blame to bad reporting and co-morbidities. Clearly, we will have to agree to disagree on the matter of how well America is handling the pandemic. I wish you and your family good health and prosperity. Go Bills. Edited August 23, 2020 by Logic 1 2 1
3rdand12 Posted August 23, 2020 Posted August 23, 2020 2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Just No. No. Thank you kindly for moderating here. The Chandler suggestion list of nick names is a perfect example. : )
That's No Moon Posted August 23, 2020 Posted August 23, 2020 4 hours ago, whatdrought said: So we’re seeing a lab under scrutiny for returning a huge chunk of false-positives because the Multibillion dollar industry was (presumably) able to re-test or relay on additional information to say “wait, we really don’t think these guys are positive” Makes you wonder how many false positives are happening in the world at large that aren’t being caught. Probably as many who end up not getting tested at all who are positive. One of my wife's employees lives in Florida and was turned away from 3 testing sites including one who told her "we've had too many positive tests today so we aren't doing any more." She ended up hospitalized. 2
whatdrought Posted August 23, 2020 Posted August 23, 2020 4 minutes ago, Logic said: I appreciate your response and perspective. I have always enjoyed your contributions to this forum. I disagree with your contention about the usefulness of the statistics I posted. I also disagree with the tactic of seeking to lessen the impact of the amount of Americans COVID has killed by passing blame to bad reporting and co-morbidities. Clearly, we will have to agree to disagree on the matter of how well America is handling the pandemic. I wish you and your family good health and prosperity. Go Bills. I'm not passing the blame or trying to lessen anything, i'm trying to inject some logic into the fear and panic that has gripped our society driven by government and media actors who look at the shock and awe or the situation instead of the genuine data. I appreciate you as a poster and I'm happy to end as friends and just say we aren't in the same place and wont be. I am truly sorry about your Grandmother and wish you and yours the best! 1 1
John from Riverside Posted August 23, 2020 Posted August 23, 2020 I am guilty of this a lot in the shoutbox.......but can we please keep the training camp thread free of politics? I am trying very hard not to engage in this here because I want to get training camp news. 1 1 5
Franco_92 Posted August 23, 2020 Posted August 23, 2020 I apologize to the mods for my contribution to thread derailment. I am glad Allen is fine and I hope senselessness doesn't needlessly end what should be the most anticipated Bills season in decades. 1
That's No Moon Posted August 23, 2020 Posted August 23, 2020 42 minutes ago, eball said: This is the relevant statistic. We can easily predict the number of deaths expected over a given time period within a pretty narrow range. When the only significant new factor is a novel coronavirus it's pretty easy to see that the death numbers from the virus are not being “made up” or accounting for other causes. particularly that I'm going to guess that deaths from other causes such as vehicular accidents are significantly down this year.
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