Training Camp 8/23 - Allen, 5 others miss practice due to False positive Covid tests

[klos63]

3 hours ago, machine gun kelly said:

BioReference Labs.  I used to be a Regional Sales Manager at a Biotech company so we had high level meetings trying to partner with them on some of our specialty lab tests.  Do you know they are the largest provider for prisons in the US.  Offenders are required to take certain tests like TB as a rule.   Before the thought police get upset, I am in no way insinuating NFL players are offenders.  Just a point of comparison what BioReference Does for a business.  They are a monster just after Quest and Labcorp.  They are not a bad group of guys and one of their main hubs is in New Jersey.

 

Hopefully they get it worked out.

is this Saving Peterman?

[Rico]

1 hour ago, Chandler#81 said:

This presents a nickname opportunity for Josh. 

Typhoyd Josh

the Corona Cannon

the Nuclear Pandemic Allen Arsenal 

the Corona Spread

 

 

The COVID Kid.

[YoloinOhio]

 

[CEN-CAL17]

10 minutes ago, Logic said:

 

No. I just have eyes and common sense and compassion.

 

175,000 dead Americans and counting, with no signs of the virus letting up any time soon. Still in the depths of dealing with this nightmare when nearly all other industrialized nations have, for the most part, moved past the worst of it.

 

If thats “doing fine” to you, then we simply fundamentally disagree on what “doing fine” means.

I’d just like to see more breakouts of that number of 175k. How many where stage 4 cancer, diabetic, older than 60, obese etc...

 

Cause aren’t they saying under the age of 40, no health concerns etc the mortality rate is like .005 half of 1 percent. So of the 175k that’s like 800 people.... 

 

I know we need to protect the vulnerable but at the same time people’s lives are being destroyed that are young and healthy.... 

 

I still fall in the group of, just wear your mask, avoid large groups and wash your hands and work spaces.... but I just think the fear of 175k is not what people make it out to be. Because our country has a lot of sick, unhealthy, obese people above the age of 40, some that don’t even know it....

[fansince88]

37 minutes ago, arcane said:

The idea that non-immunoligical legislation can make macroscopic impacts on this virus, short of having a finger on each and every one of 380 million people, is what is pie-in-the-sky. There is a reason that an abundance of pandemic planning literature advises against strict lockdowns. 

Apologies. It is tiresome seeing unscientific nonsense masquerading around as "science says!!! Reddit and bill Nye and IFLS facebook page told me!!!"

Agreed as it is for both sides of the isle on every issue

[whatdrought]

1 minute ago, CEN-CAL17 said:

I’d just like to see more breakouts of that number of 175k. How many where stage 4 cancer, diabetic, older than 60, obese etc...

 

Cause aren’t they saying under the age of 40, no health concerns etc the mortality rate is like .005 half of 1 percent. So of the 175k that’s like 800 people.... 

 

I know we need to protect the vulnerable but at the same time people’s lives are being destroyed that are young and healthy.... 

 

I still fall in the group of, just wear your mask, avoid large groups and wash your hands and work spaces.... but I just think the fear of 175k is not what people make it out to be. Because our country has a lot of sick, unhealthy, obese people above the age of 40, some that don’t even know it....

 

Just for fun, look up the average life expectancy in America, and then look up the average death related to covid... it’s an interesting look into who is actually dying from this. 

[RyanC883]

4 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

I wonder if this will impact the Bills practice today . The browns are one of the teams that use this lab so based on proximity it is likely the Bills do as well 

 

 

 

Jets fans in NJ work in this lab??

[Warcodered]

With Allen out for a covid-lab day today has to of been huge for the Backup competition.

[whatdrought]

24 minutes ago, Logic said:

 

No. I just have eyes and common sense and compassion.

 

175,000 dead Americans and counting, with no signs of the virus letting up any time soon. Still in the depths of dealing with this nightmare when nearly all other industrialized nations have, for the most part, moved past the worst of it.

 

If thats “doing fine” to you, then we simply fundamentally disagree on what “doing fine” means.

Ah yes, the “I believe all things the government and government scientists say because I, unlike you, don’t want to see grandmother killed.” 
 

You are far superior to those of us who question what the government says and doesn’t take their inconsistent, back and forth, up and down commands as gospel. 
 

Furthermore, your “no sign of letting up” jargon is completely anti-data. Cases have been trending down nation wide for a month. 
 

 

1 minute ago, Warcodered said:

With Allen out for a covid-lab day today has to of been huge for the Backup competition.

I had the same thought. Don’t love Allen missing reps, but the bright side of seeing the backups with the ones is nice. (Or not nice, depending)

Edited August 23, 2020 by whatdrought

[Warcodered]

1 minute ago, whatdrought said:

Ah yes, the “I believe all things the government and government scientists say because I, unlike you, don’t want to see grandmother killed.” 
 

You are far superior to those of us who question what the government says and doesn’t take their inconsistent, back and forth, up and down commands as gospel. 
 

Furthermore, your “no sign of letting up” jargon is completely anti-data. Cases have been trending down nation wide for a month. 

I had the same thought. Don’t love Allen missing reps, but the bright side of seeing the backups with the ones is nice. (Or not nice, depending)

Yeah Beane said something about the players not being very happy about having to sit out, I'm thinking Allen was pissed about it.

[klos63]

4 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

 

Just for fun, look up the average life expectancy in America, and then look up the average death related to covid... it’s an interesting look into who is actually dying from this. 

or look into how many Americans normally die in a period of time and compare it to the covid period. It's about 200K higher this year than on average. 

[whatdrought]

1 minute ago, Warcodered said:

Yeah Beane said something about the players not being very happy about having to sit out, I'm thinking Allen was pissed about it.

I can imagine. I would be. 
 

But, he can take a vet rest day and spend some time in the books which is probably beneficial anyways. I imagine finding a balance between team work, field work, personal book/ film work, and all that is probably harder in this offseason so maybe it’s a nice push to get him away from the team to absorb some stuff/work by himself. 

[machine gun kelly]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Because PCR testing is so sensitive, running a good PCR testing operation requires specialized lab set up and know how.

It doesn't sound like these folks got it down.  Way too many false positives.  They need to get someone in there who knows what they're doing wrt PCR and get the ship shaped up

They have divisions that do specialty genomic testing, oncology, and women’s health stuff vs. only the basic panels.  They of course do those too.  It’s possible, but without knowing the exacts on the following.  What was the P values in their FDA submission?  What was the false positive and the false negatives in their FDA submission?  Now from that, extrapolate out how many tests have they processed, and of that how many false positives and false negatives?  Then from there and Hapless I know you’re very learned on the subject so this is as much for the group, what is the variance identified of the false positives and negatives deviating fro the FDA submission?  Was it a bad FDA submission and rush to approval of the test which normally doesn’t happen, but can, and was it a problem with this lab?  I don’t work for them, I was just in negotiations with them in 2016.  I’m certain the governing bodies will prompt a potential audit if it gets a lot of bad press.  The last piece is using this test, are the results that off from Quest and Labcorp Consistent with BioReference?  This will tell you a lot, but hard to make an assessment as to the lab, test or FDA approval process withouT having all these pieces.  I just don’t know any of these points, and doubt Anyone else in the media knows or even knows how to properly report on these matters.  Even though I was in medical device and rare disease orphan drug sales and management, it wasn’t until I went into Biotech that I learned all this stuff.

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

24 minutes ago, klos63 said:

is this Saving Peterman?

 

This board has a strange obsession with Peterman

[whatdrought]

2 minutes ago, klos63 said:

or look into how many Americans normally die in a period of time and compare it to the covid period. It's about 200K higher this year than on average. 

Yep. And your point is?

 

No doubt people are dying from this virus. But instead of protecting the actual at risk people (ya know, those in nursing homes who are sick and hovering around that 78yo mark) we’re shutting down the country, ruining the economy, creating chaos and torpedoing the public school system so that the demographic that’s at less risk then they are to the season flu (pre-retirement people with no added risk factors) can sit home and draw checks from good OL Uncle Sam. 
 

But, if you feel you need to go protest in the name of justice, please feel free to head to your nearest democratic city. 

[Buffalophil1948]

28 minutes ago, Rico said:

The COVID Kid.

Like it, now change his number to 19 

[eball]

7 minutes ago, klos63 said:

or look into how many Americans normally die in a period of time and compare it to the covid period. It's about 200K higher this year than on average. 

This is the relevant statistic. We can easily predict the number of deaths expected over a given time period within a pretty narrow range. When the only significant new factor is a novel coronavirus it's pretty easy to see that the death numbers from the virus are not being “made up” or accounting for other causes. 

[machine gun kelly]

26 minutes ago, klos63 said:

is this Saving Peterman?

No wiseguy, I laughed by the way, I wasn’t trying to say I was important as I’m only MGK, but I negotiated with their VO’s about doing high volume tests of ours in their house at a $200,000 cost to them, and a multi-million $ meetings.  We never closed as one of the big two bought our company, but we got to the id say 9th or 10th hour on it.  It was actually a pain in my ars as I worked hard on that deal for my reps, but we were bought and killed the deal as they took over.  I’m only saying I’m not ready to throw BioReference under the bus and not saying anyone here is doing that, just they cam across to me as ethical people, they follow all of the governed protocols, took tours through their lab, etc.

 

Look at my reply to Hapless as there are a lot of questions, just not a lot of answers yet.

[klos63]

2 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

No wiseguy, I laughed by the way, I wasn’t trying to say I was important as I’m only MGK, but I negotiated with their VO’s about doing high volume tests of ours in their house at a $200,000 cost to them, and a multi-million $ meetings.  We never closed as one of the big two bought our company, but we got to the id say 9th or 10th hour on it.  It was actually a pain in my ars as I worked hard on that deal for my reps, but we were bought and killed the deal as they took over.  I’m only saying I’m not ready to throw BioReference under the bus and not saying anyone here is doing that, just they cam across to me as ethical people, they follow all of the governed protocols, took tours through their lab, etc.

 

Look at my reply to Hapless as there are a lot of questions, just not a lot of answers yet.

I was just trying to make a joke.

[Franco_92]

1 hour ago, Logic said:

 

No. I just have eyes and common sense and compassion.

 

175,000 dead Americans and counting, with no signs of the virus letting up any time soon. Still in the depths of dealing with this nightmare when nearly all other industrialized nations have, for the most part, moved past the worst of it.

 

If thats “doing fine” to you, then we simply fundamentally disagree on what “doing fine” means.

American mortality rates are in line with other countries, and that considers the dubious counting methods used here that likely aren't used elsewhere as well. Especially considering the ever-increasing number of studies coming out and predictably dulling that rate by an order of magnitude. American mistreatment of the nursing home scenario is far from unique, though that mistreatment's impact is outsized given the sheer volume of Americans in nursing homes, given that we're a country of 330 million + people. There is no one person you can pin that misfortune on, but EU nations made the same mistake, and had they been in charge making decisions here, the same thing would have happened, it just didn't over there in their quaint little nations that would comfortably fit inside some of our individual states. 

"Still in the depths of dealing with this nightmare when nearly all other industrialized nations have moved past the worst of it"

This is a mistake of pretending the geographic scope of America is the same as that of a given nation, which again, would comfortably sit within one single state. There is only one state that has had two significant bouts of this virus, Louisiana. And at the county level, they still only "got hit" once - the counties that got hit the firs time were largely fine the second time, and didn't see a spike. Because of America's geographical scope, Hope-Simpson viral seasonality kept the virus at bay in some places, while in others it hit right away. That is why, despite strict lockdowns, the North East got ***** up, and then burned out despite halving their lockdowns in the midst of recovery, (as proxied by mobility data), and are fine now despite having varying levels of lockdown between them, all far more open than they were at the worst of the virus (and in the weeks preceding that) . It's why, despite maintaning 4-5+ months of the strictest lockdowns in the nation and world, California got hit predictably when a mild summer strain of cold and flu regularly surges in their climate, and the same thing for Hawaii, despite their lockdown curve being uniform, unchanging, without any inflection points in the preceding months. Depending on Hope-Simpson seasonality, there are a bunch of states with both strong negative corelation between lockdowns and increase of viral presence (measuring by case RATES and hospitalization numbers, rather than case numbers) AND a bunch of states with strong POSITIVE correlations betwen lockdown extent and increase of viral presence. Without controlling for seasonality, which is an effective proxy for virus prevalence above a critical mass that will cause spread no matter what (which no legislation in a country this big will ever, ever be able to control), that data is absolutely nonsensical. And the extent of lockdown doesn't correlate with prevalence of virus either - if you take the rolling average of mobility data the week/two weeks before COVID peak in a region, and then scatter plot that with the hospitalizations, deaths, or case rates of the region, you'll actually get negative correlation, suggesting that lockdowns are bad if you want to keep the virus away. Of course, the proper conclusion to draw from that isn't the obvious one, but you guys are drawing that simplistic of a conclusion in the OTHER direction, DESPITE the data saying the opposite! There is no data in the united states that even remotely paints genuine relations between "Americans being dumb and not locking down and wearing masks like GOOD SMART PEOPLE LIKE ME" and the actual presence of the virus anywhere. Recent uptick in case rates in the EU is also in line with Hope-Simpson, and nobody has made a peep about them, or that other industrialized countries are so uniform in climate compared to us that this effect is impossible to see in those countries, for ANY virus.

 

The mobility data is easy to find with a quick google search, as is downloadable coronavirus data. I'd encourage you to play around with it yourself, it's enjoyable. 

Of course, this absence of data suggesting that we need to stay indoors indefinitely and wear cloth masks (don't even get me started on mask literature, which is an echoing, empty chamber of no validation) was entirely understood before the corona panic, and was the reason why nice dem-soc nations normally slobbered over like Sweden chose the routes they did. Routes that were validated given the number of people about to be homeless, the number of jobs lost, the number of suicides, missed cancer screenings, unreported cases of child abuse that normally get sent through the school systems, etc here. The United States succeeded by the only realistic metric of pandemic success humans can actually control - making progress on a vaccine, which is happening, and keeping hospitals from being overwhelmed, which happened. Nobody didn't have the beds, treatment they needed. Non-immunological legislation cannot help or solve pandemics in a way that we didn't achieve with it, and does significant damage, and scientists already knew this.

You don't know what you're talking about and just like to get off on bitching about how dumb your own countrymen are. You are embarrassing

Edited August 23, 2020 by arcane