Mr. WEO Posted August 24, 2020 Posted August 24, 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Figster said: My point is Barkley doesn't even have one full season of game starts ( 16 games ) playing for multiple teams and OC's. I don't know of many QB's who succeed without continuity or having enough previous game experience they also sucked at before they got better. 14 game starts suck and If McD and Co. didn't think Barkley could win football games he wouldn't be backing up Josh Allen IMO. Anything Fromm does is frosting on the cake... He's a career backup. He would never start a full season except for a disastrous injury. It does not matter who the backups OC is. That's the nature off the position--you are either ready to go at moments notice or you aren't. Most are journeymen. The rest wash out fast. The Bills kept Barkley from washing outs when he clearly should. Fitz has racked up wins everywhere he has gone under countless OC's, as an example. Josh McCown has done far better than Barkley for years. Foles is still in the league. In first year back with the Eagles, he got off the bench, went 9-1 the rest of the season and won a SB. Edited August 24, 2020 by Mr. WEO 1 2
Hapless Bills Fan Posted August 24, 2020 Posted August 24, 2020 On 8/23/2020 at 2:42 PM, Muppy said: I was wondering how it was determined so quickly that tests were "false positive"....this explains some of it thank you Each test has a bunch of control samples, both positive and negative. If the control samples don't behave correctly, well, There you go. One thing to do in those circs is just not report results and repeat the test, but I suppose with the NFL depending upon the tests to stop covid-19 spread between guys who are interacting closely, they got to deliver on time.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted August 24, 2020 Posted August 24, 2020 14 minutes ago, Warcodered said: Maybe but I think with how good a camp Davis is having he'll likely be one of the 5 active WRs on game day so they might take more of a risk on the 6th inactive spot. I see it the opposite way. With the threat of covid-19 sidelining anybody anytime, the advantage goes to the proven swiss-army-knife veteran over the higher ceiling rookie who could have used those reps off season
Figster Posted August 24, 2020 Posted August 24, 2020 3 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: He's a career backup. He would never start a full season except for a disastrous injury. It does not matter who the backups OC is. That's the nature off the position--you are either ready to go at moments notice or you aren't. Most are journeymen. The rest wash out fast. The Bills kept Barkley from washing outs when he clearly should. Fitz has racked up wins everywhere he has gone under countless OC's, as an example. Josh McCown has done far better than Barkley for years. Foles is still in the league. In first year back with the Eagles, he got off the bench, went 9-1 the rest of the season and won a SB. I like Josh McCown allot. I also think Fitzpatricks high IQ, leadership and understanding of the play book all come into play to help make Fitzy good at what he does IMO. Even though Fitzpatricks arm /accuracy sucks.
Mr. WEO Posted August 24, 2020 Posted August 24, 2020 9 minutes ago, Figster said: I like Josh McCown allot. I also think Fitzpatricks high IQ, leadership and understanding of the play book all come into play to help make Fitzy good at what he does IMO. Even though Fitzpatricks arm /accuracy sucks. Fitz in tha past 4 years has thrown for almost 12,000 yards in 52 appearances (mostly starts) for 228 YPG, 75TDs/48INTs in the past 5 years on 4 different teams while completing 63% of his passes. On "deep passes" last season (defined as attempts over 20 yards in the air), Fitz completed 40% for 11.5 YPA and a 110 rating (Aaron Rodgers was 33/11.1/111, to compare). 1
Figster Posted August 24, 2020 Posted August 24, 2020 2 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Fitz in tha past 4 years has thrown for almost 12,000 yards in 52 appearances (mostly starts) for 228 YPG, 75TDs/48INTs in the past 5 years on 4 different teams while completing 63% of his passes. On "deep passes" last season (defined as attempts over 20 yards in the air), Fitz completed 40% for 11.5 YPA and a 110 rating (Aaron Rodgers was 33/11.1/111, to compare). I'll still take the unknown ceiling of Barkley over Fitzy here in Buffalo Mr. WEO With all due respect sir, I think Barkley will protect the ball better and with a solid supporting cast win football games.
Mr. WEO Posted August 24, 2020 Posted August 24, 2020 Just now, Figster said: I'll still take the unknown ceiling of Barkley over Fitzy here in Buffalo Mr. WEO With all due respect sir, I think Barkley will protect the ball better and with a solid supporting cast win football games. You have to descend a staircase to get to Barkely's ceiling. He is especially absolutely awful at protecting the football. Saying you would rather Barkley start this year over Fitz if Josh went down is completely nuts and not based on any extrapolation of any known facts. 2
Figster Posted August 25, 2020 Posted August 25, 2020 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: You have to descend a staircase to get to Barkely's ceiling. He is especially absolutely awful at protecting the football. Saying you would rather Barkley start this year over Fitz if Josh went down is completely nuts and not based on any extrapolation of any known facts. I prefer giving someone a chance to do better then Fitzpatrick. I've seen what Fitzy can do for Buffalo. I've seen what Fitzy can do over the years. The fact is a whole career of turning the football over does not impress me. If Fitzys TD to INT ratio was better I might feel differently. Edited August 25, 2020 by Figster
MJS Posted August 25, 2020 Posted August 25, 2020 25 minutes ago, Figster said: I prefer giving someone a chance to do better then Fitzpatrick. I've seen what Fitzy can do for Buffalo. I've seen what Fitzy can do over the years. The fact is a whole career of turning the football over does not impress me. If Fitzys TD to INT ratio was better I might feel differently. But isn't Barkley's TD:INT ratio bad too? I get that he hasn't played as much, but that also means he has never shown that he is good enough to start for any of the coaches he has played for. 1
Mr. WEO Posted August 25, 2020 Posted August 25, 2020 2 hours ago, Figster said: I prefer giving someone a chance to do better then Fitzpatrick. I've seen what Fitzy can do for Buffalo. I've seen what Fitzy can do over the years. The fact is a whole career of turning the football over does not impress me. If Fitzys TD to INT ratio was better I might feel differently. 210:161 vs. 10:21. int% 3.3 vs 6.1. (Jim Kelly was 237:135 with 3.7% of his passes as INTs, for perspective---and that was surrounded with HOF talent and coaching). I can't tell if you are trolling me or really don't understand the all stats that refute your claims. 1
Figster Posted August 25, 2020 Posted August 25, 2020 (edited) 7 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: 210:161 vs. 10:21. int% 3.3 vs 6.1. (Jim Kelly was 237:135 with 3.7% of his passes as INTs, for perspective---and that was surrounded with HOF talent and coaching). I can't tell if you are trolling me or really don't understand the all stats that refute your claims. Troll? I think I've been very polite explaining my position. What stats refute my claims of Fitzpatrick being a career turnover machine? 29 career fumbles. More INT's (161) then games played.(156) Fitzpatrick started his career throwing 17 INT's in his first 15 Game starts. ( won 4 ) Been doing it ever since. What stat refutes Barkley having very little game experience? Or playing for multiple teams and OC's? Myself personally, it takes some continuity and actual game experience to get better at the QB position in the NFL. 14 game starts is less then one season. Its not enough IMO. Especially when the 14 games is scattered over 5 seasons. Fitzpatrick on the other hand has been turning the ball over at the most inopportune time his whole career. Never accomplishing anything other then what hes doing right now. ( filling in until the right guy comes along) I concede JK and RF do have somewhat similar career numbers. ( good point) Different Era For perspective 2nd year player Lamar Jackson 2019 season TD to INT 36 : 6 The difference between Fitz and JK is when Kelly threw INT's early in a game, he finished the game with TD's. /Wins. Fitzy, not so much. Jim Kelly also accomplished something in his career IMO. When I look at Barkley I see potential. You evidently see someone that has already failed. I don't feel that way. Its doubtful our coaches feel that way in my humble opinion. We have a difference of opinion. Edited August 25, 2020 by Figster
Mr. WEO Posted August 25, 2020 Posted August 25, 2020 9 hours ago, Figster said: Troll? I think I've been very polite explaining my position. What stats refute my claims of Fitzpatrick being a career turnover machine? 29 career fumbles. More INT's (161) then games played.(156) Fitzpatrick started his career throwing 17 INT's in his first 15 Game starts. ( won 4 ) Been doing it ever since. What stat refutes Barkley having very little game experience? Or playing for multiple teams and OC's? Myself personally, it takes some continuity and actual game experience to get better at the QB position in the NFL. 14 game starts is less then one season. Its not enough IMO. Especially when the 14 games is scattered over 5 seasons. Fitzpatrick on the other hand has been turning the ball over at the most inopportune time his whole career. Never accomplishing anything other then what hes doing right now. ( filling in until the right guy comes along) I concede JK and RF do have somewhat similar career numbers. ( good point) Different Era For perspective 2nd year player Lamar Jackson 2019 season TD to INT 36 : 6 The difference between Fitz and JK is when Kelly threw INT's early in a game, he finished the game with TD's. /Wins. Fitzy, not so much. Jim Kelly also accomplished something in his career IMO. When I look at Barkley I see potential. You evidently see someone that has already failed. I don't feel that way. Its doubtful our coaches feel that way in my humble opinion. We have a difference of opinion. More INTs than games played? 21 INTs in his first 15 starts---and won 4 games? That's Jim Kelly. Also, Kelly fumbled 76 times in 161 games. Was he a "turnover machine" too? By your definition, he absolutely was. He was also on one of the NFL's all time great teams. Fitz has never been on such a team. You know this. No one is "refuting that Barkley having very much playing time". They completely refute that Fitz is more of a "turnover machine" than Barkley. The latter has turned the ball over 31 times in 14 games---that's worse than Nate Peterman (who this coaching staff also thought was good enough to start week 1 2018....after showing as awful in 2017). I think you are alone in your choice of BAarkley over Fitz as a Bills backup. Your conclusion that he's a bigger turnover machine is wrong. I compared him to Kelly to show you how incorrect that opinion is. Kelly was worse, by your criteria, at "protecting the ball" than Fitz. If Fromm has any aptitude for the NFL game at all, Barkley is gone. 2 other teams have already come to this conclusion before the Bills...
Figster Posted August 25, 2020 Posted August 25, 2020 (edited) 11 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: More INTs than games played? 21 INTs in his first 15 starts---and won 4 games? That's Jim Kelly. Also, Kelly fumbled 76 times in 161 games. Was he a "turnover machine" too? By your definition, he absolutely was. He was also on one of the NFL's all time great teams. Fitz has never been on such a team. You know this. No one is "refuting that Barkley having very much playing time". They completely refute that Fitz is more of a "turnover machine" than Barkley. The latter has turned the ball over 31 times in 14 games---that's worse than Nate Peterman (who this coaching staff also thought was good enough to start week 1 2018....after showing as awful in 2017). I think you are alone in your choice of BAarkley over Fitz as a Bills backup. Your conclusion that he's a bigger turnover machine is wrong. I compared him to Kelly to show you how incorrect that opinion is. Kelly was worse, by your criteria, at "protecting the ball" than Fitz. If Fromm has any aptitude for the NFL game at all, Barkley is gone. 2 other teams have already come to this conclusion before the Bills... Kelly has 10 career fumbles https://www.nfl.com/players/jim-kelly/stats/career Where are you even getting this stuff from? Jim Kelly did turn the ball over excessively. Do you think because JK turned the ball over allot Fitz gets a free pass for all the games he lost? As I already explained. Jim Kelly was a finisher and won many football games. Yes, he had a better supporting cast then Fitz. Kelly also had a cannon throwing arm compared to the noodle arm of Ryan Fitzpatrick. Apparently you like Fitzy and I could think of a ton of good things to say about him. Deep down as with many departures I will always be a fan of the bearded one. I think Fitzpatrick would make for a brilliant OC in the NFL one day. Myself personally, knowing where the football needed to go and the balls to put it there has never been a problem for the gunslinger. Fitzy normally ends up knowing the playbook as well if not better then the OC. I hope Fromm does well and eventually takes over the backup duties for the Buffalo Bills. I also hope Barkley does well and eventually moves on to bigger and better opportunities as a starter in the NFL. (like Fitzy) Never understood a fan wishing bad results upon their own players in an effort to prove themselves right. Oh well... Edited August 26, 2020 by Figster
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