The Odds of Dying from COVID-19

[Capco]

10 minutes ago, bilzfancy said:

Where did I post I didn't take precautions?? Christ, you people read what you want to read, see what you want to see, and then twist everything to fit your agenda. If you want to stay on " house arrest" until this virus disappears, go for it, but don't tell the rest of us how to live. 

When you say you want kids to go back to school that speaks volumes about your understanding of communicable diseases. You are displaying your inability to understand nuance.

 

In this case, you are ignoring the fact that children can still incubate and transmit the virus to others at an incredible rate if they are sent back to school. 
 

Have you ever had to deal with 25 or more 6 year olds for 6 hours a day, 5 days a week? If you did then you’d know how ridiculous it is to expect those teachers to effectively social distance their students.

 

But hey, back to normal is the important part. Not safety and well being of the people in your life who aren’t you.

[ziltoid]

33 minutes ago, Capco said:

So it’s not about your neighbors or fellow citizens. To hell with what happens to them. The individual and their individual choices are the most important thing in this society. If bilzfancy wants to live his life normally during a pandemic at the risk of harming others by not taking precautions that stop the spread of the virus, well THAT is what REALLY matters, right?

 

#######s. #######s everywhere.

 

Straight talk Capco - you are correct.  If you died tomorrow, I would not care.  And vice versa.  Deal with it.

[Capco]

3 minutes ago, BeerLeagueHockey said:

 

Straight talk Capco - you are correct.  If you died tomorrow, I would not care.  And vice versa.  Deal with it.

I think at the end of the day there really is some fundamental difference with certain people wrt this topic of individual vs group.

 

The best we can do, then, is to bridge the gap when we can.

[B-Man]

8 minutes ago, Capco said:

When you say you want kids to go back to school that speaks volumes about your understanding of communicable diseases.

 

 

 

On 8/5/2020 at 10:31 PM, B-Man said:

 

 

I’m a Nurse in New York. Teachers Should Do Their Jobs, Just Like I Did. Schools are essential to the functioning of our society, and that makes teachers essential workers.

 

 

 

On 7/26/2020 at 12:24 PM, B-Man said:

 

School openings across globe suggest ways to keep ...

www.sciencemag.org › news › 2020/07 › school-openi...

 

 

New CDC coronavirus guidelines push opening schools - CNN

www.cnn.com › 2020/07/23 › health › cdc-coronavirus-s...

 

2 days ago - "School closures have disrupted normal ways of life for children and parents, and they have had negative health consequences on our youth.

 

 

Schools Should Prioritize Reopening in Fall 2020, Especially ...

www.nationalacademies.org › news › 2020/07 › school...

 

News Release | July 15, 2020 ... Opening schools will benefit families beyond providing education, including by supplying child care, school services, meals, ...

 

 

On 7/26/2020 at 12:36 PM, B-Man said:

New CDC guidelines come down hard in favor of opening schools

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/23/health/cdc-coronavirus-school-guidelines-new/index.html

 

 

 

 

 

[GG]

8 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's funny how one side keeps screaming that we should be listening to doctors and scientists*

 

 

 

 

 

 

* Except pediatricians and psychologists who warn of the dangers of keeping kids locked up at home.

[Capco]

14 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Considering the fact that all of those posts are at least several weeks old (most are older), let's examine something a bit more recent:

 

"One thing is certain," Murphy says, "Any return to school or work will require that we all practice personal hygiene (teaching our kids to wash their hands, cough and sneeze into their elbows, and so on) and pay attention to our general health and symptoms every day, and anyone with any symptoms should stay home."

 

Other than that, there really is no consensus. We've seen that with the CDC's stance on the matter, followed by the serious backlash from school and medical professionals. 

 

"While there may not be a true consensus on schools opening, we pediatricians do all agree with the CDC that, in a perfect scenario, we would all like schools to be open," Dr. Sanborn says, nodding to the fact that, based on available evidence, young children don't seem to contract or transmit the SARS-CoV-2 virus as easily as adults. 

 

https://www.cnet.com/health/is-it-safe-to-reopen-schools-during-the-coronavirus-pandemic/

[GG]

1 minute ago, Capco said:

 

Considering the fact that all of those posts are at least several weeks old (most are older), let's examine something a bit more recent:

 

"One thing is certain," Murphy says, "Any return to school or work will require that we all practice personal hygiene (teaching our kids to wash their hands, cough and sneeze into their elbows, and so on) and pay attention to our general health and symptoms every day, and anyone with any symptoms should stay home."

 

Other than that, there really is no consensus. We've seen that with the CDC's stance on the matter, followed by the serious backlash from school and medical professionals. 

 

"While there may not be a true consensus on schools opening, we pediatricians do all agree with the CDC that, in a perfect scenario, we would all like schools to be open," Dr. Sanborn says, nodding to the fact that, based on available evidence, young children don't seem to contract or transmit the SARS-CoV-2 virus as easily as adults. 

 

https://www.cnet.com/health/is-it-safe-to-reopen-schools-during-the-coronavirus-pandemic/

 

So you agree with CDC and the pediatricians that it's better for the kids to be back at school, right?

[Capco]

Just now, GG said:

 

So you agree with CDC and the pediatricians that it's better for the kids to be back at school, right?

 

Under perfect conditions, yes absolutely.  

[BillsFanNC]

31 minutes ago, Capco said:

When you say you want kids to go back to school that speaks volumes about your understanding of communicable diseases. You are displaying your inability to understand nuance.

 

In this case, you are ignoring the fact that children can still incubate and transmit the virus to others at an incredible rate if they are sent back to school. 
 

Have you ever had to deal with 25 or more 6 year olds for 6 hours a day, 5 days a week? If you did then you’d know how ridiculous it is to expect those teachers to effectively social distance their students.

 

But hey, back to normal is the important part. Not safety and well being of the people in your life who aren’t you.

 

Link to peer reviewed research that definitively makes this conclusion, and please define what you define as an incredible rate. 

 

 

[Sig1Hunter]

5 hours ago, TBBills said:

Here we go again. What about all the long term effects, heart problems, brain damage, organ problems. You do know Covid affects the whole body and not just the lungs, right?

 

Their is a reason you posted this here b/c you know it's a stupid thing to post and this is the only  sub-forum where people can post stupid topics, fact.

They’re their own worst enemies over there. Am I right?

[GG]

4 minutes ago, Capco said:

 

Under perfect conditions, yes absolutely.  

 

There are no perfect conditions, that's why the schools need to minimize as much of the risk as possible but still have the goal of having kids back in the classrooms.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

...anybody want to offer up the indirect effects on NOT returning to school?.......the younger ones have been out of a coordinated learning environment since March, also devoid of necessary social interaction with their peers....parents yet untrained, having been giving their best efforts with home schooling....what has been the effectiveness (NOT knocking their BEST efforts)?......what has been the psychological affect on the family unite being cooped up too close?......parents unemployed, children out of school now subjected to closeness versus parents working, children in school, as a potential relief mechanism?......all need their space, right?.....what about the financial implications for two income families now having to cover children staying at home during remote learning sessions?.....switch to part time?...hope employer allows remote work?.....hire someone to babysit those days with rates expected to be exorbitant based on supply/demand?.....

[Capco]

5 minutes ago, GG said:

 

There are no perfect conditions, that's why the schools need to minimize as much of the risk as possible but still have the goal of having kids back in the classrooms.

 

So it's you who doesn't agree with the pediatricians then.  

[BillsFanNC]

3 minutes ago, Capco said:

 

So it's you who doesn't agree with the pediatricians then.  

 

You mean he doesn't agree with a quote made by a single pediatrician.  Im married to a pediatrician who disagrees and is thrilled that both our kids are back to in person schooling.

[Capco]

9 minutes ago, BillsFanNC said:

 

Link to peer reviewed research that definitively makes this conclusion, and please define what you define as an incredible rate. 

 

I don't have any such research available to me.  Peer review takes time.  The other countries around the world that are handling COVID leaps and bounds better than the US didn't wait for peer-reviewed research before they were able to get a handle on things.  It doesn't take a rocket scientist to put two and two together with even the most basic understanding of virology, which I believe is something you've claimed to know a bit about. 

Expert comments from the same article I linked:  

 

We think, or hope, that everyone understands the primary risk of reopening schools during a global pandemic: An increase in the number of people infected and more people with life-threatening cases of COVID-19.

 

"The main risk would be that the children will contract COVID-19 more frequently in school, and that the teachers will be exposed to and could become infected as well," Dr. Sanborn says. "Aside from the risk of infected children potentially becoming very ill, which is fortunately a rare occurrence, there is also the risk to the children's families if the kids bring the virus home." 

 

Finally, according to Dr. Sanborn although it seems that children may not spread the SARS-CoV-2 virus as effectively as adults, there is still major concern about a possible spike in infection rates, particularly in regions where infection rates are already high.

 

Murphy reiterates this concern, although she emphasizes that the risk of spreading the novel coronavirus in schools depends largely on the region's infection rates and other factors.

 

 

So how does your personal expertise compare to these two professionals?  

3 minutes ago, BillsFanNC said:

 

You mean he doesn't agree with a quote made by a single pediatrician.  Im married to a pediatrician who disagrees and is thrilled that both our kids are back to in person schooling.

 

"While there may not be a true consensus on schools opening, we pediatricians do all agree with the CDC that, in a perfect scenario, we would all like schools to be open."

How does your wife's expertise compare to Dr Sanborn's?  

[bilzfancy]

Kids wear masks, teachers wear masks, hand sanitizer in each room, what's the problem? Here's a fact, keeping kids out of school ######s their educational and social development, not to mention, an increase in adolescent depression, drug use and suicides.

[Capco]

2 minutes ago, bilzfancy said:

Kids wear masks, teachers wear masks, hand sanitizer in each room, what's the problem? Here's a fact, keeping kids out of school ######s their educational and social development, not to mention, an increase in adolescent depression, drug use and suicides.

 

I'll ask you again since you completely ignored me the first time.

 

Have you ever had to deal with 25 or more 6 year olds for 6 hours a day, 5 days a week? If you did then you’d know how ridiculous it is to expect those teachers to effectively social distance their students.  That includes the basic act of getting them to keep their masks on.  

[BillsFanNC]

They have mitagation measures in effect at schools here in NC that have opened. My daughter is in grade school. She goes from 8-11 am with half her class, the other half goes in the afternoon. Thus there are only 10 other students in her classroom with the teacher. She is given work to do in the afternoon at home. Her temperature is checked every day before she is allowed to enter. There are ways to mitigate, not eliminate, risk and get kids back in school that is safe for everyone. 

 

I'll also add that if as a parent you aren't comfortable sending your kid to school still,  then you can have your child on an all virtual school option.

Edited August 23, 2020 by BillsFanNC

[bilzfancy]

17 minutes ago, Capco said:

 

I'll ask you again since you completely ignored me the first time.

 

Have you ever had to deal with 25 or more 6 year olds for 6 hours a day, 5 days a week? If you did then you’d know how ridiculous it is to expect those teachers to effectively social distance their students.  That includes the basic act of getting them to keep their masks on.  

No, I've never been a teacher but you're still ignoring all the negatives of keeping them home. Kids have a much greater chance if dying from the flu then from covid yet schools stay home in flu season. This virus isn't going away any time soon, if ever. Kids NEED to be in school, they need to play sports, they need to interact with other kids. I love my grandchildren with all my heart and I want them to be in school.

[Capco]

30 minutes ago, BillsFanNC said:

They have mitigation measures in effect at schools here in NC that have opened. My daughter is in grade school. She goes from 8-11 am with half her class, the other half goes in the afternoon. Thus there are only 10 other students in her classroom with the teacher. She is given work to do in the afternoon at home. Her temperature is checked every day before she is allowed to enter. There are ways to mitigate, not eliminate, risk and get kids back in school that is safe for everyone. 

 

I'll also add that if as a parent you aren't comfortable sending your kid to school still,  then you can have your child on an all virtual school option.

 

That sounds like a very good approach and one I would feel comfortable with.  Good luck to your children in school this year!

 

Initially my entry into this thread was responding to bilzfancy and his focus on returning to normalcy, including sending children back to school.  That's how I was framing the conversation from that point on:  a full return to normalcy wrt to kids in school, as if it were any other year.  I'd be terrified as hell of such a situation, and judging by this response I think you would be as well.  

 

I hope that every state goes for similar measures this year.  As bilzfancy and OldTimeAFLGuy mentioned, there are a lot of benefits to school and we cannot ignore them.  As long as there is a holistic approach to this mess where we follow the advice of our best and brightest as best we can, I'm good.  

Edited August 23, 2020 by Capco