Mr. WEO Posted August 22, 2020 Posted August 22, 2020 1 hour ago, purple haze said: The fights are most likely not isolated events. If teammates want him gone there are more incidents, whatever they might be, that haven’t gotten out. This latest thing was the last straw for them. It will be a heavy lift to cancel his contract over that and guys not liking him. 1 hour ago, JR in Pittsburgh said: the above is pretty much a collection of some of the biggest troublemakers over the last 20 years! I just think when you have the pats culture plus the vet leadership there and track record of winning, it prevents any of those guys (or any other troublemaker) from getting out of hand. plus, in the past, the pats didn’t need any of those guys. They had a super bowl team; they could roll the dice and take a risk and then cut a guy after a game if they wanted (AB). I think the dynamic there would be much different now. In fact, I will be curious to see even how Cam does there, as he can be a little weird sometimes. Come on! No they are not. Not as a group. Might as well put Revis in there too--he held every team hostage for more money as soon as the ink on his latest contract dried. Again, the trouble makers (Haynesworth, AB) didn't last so that culture had no effect. Moss, Dillon, Johnson were hardly much "trouble". All of them had huge careers on their teams previous to NE. NE needed Dillon. Also Moss. Even Revis.
GoBills808 Posted August 22, 2020 Posted August 22, 2020 3 hours ago, Shaw66 said: I think Pete Carroll's true genius as coach was that he could maintain a winning culture with egos like Richard Sherman and Beast-Mode. I didn't realiize Thomas was one, too, but it just emphasizes the point. Yes same w Tomlin
Mark80 Posted August 22, 2020 Posted August 22, 2020 4 hours ago, MiltonWaddams said: Who could’ve guessed that the guy who flipped Seattle fans the bird after getting injured two seasons ago would cause a problem on a new team? Absolutely not at all what he did. He flipped off the organization. He didnt want to play without an extension and the security it offered. The organization refused. He decided to play anyway and he subsequently suffered a serious, season ending injury. Nothing at all to do with fans.
MiltonWaddams Posted August 22, 2020 Posted August 22, 2020 1 hour ago, Mark80 said: Absolutely not at all what he did. He flipped off the organization. He didnt want to play without an extension and the security it offered. The organization refused. He decided to play anyway and he subsequently suffered a serious, season ending injury. Nothing at all to do with fans. So what you’re saying is that he stuck his middle finger up towards John Schneider and Pete Carroll and the rest of the management team without any fans in attendance? No, that’s not what he did. He stuck his middle finger up directly at the stands when it happened. I’ve seen the video. I know what happened. I also live in the Pacific Northwest and know what that represented to fans. The players who are not willing to live up to the contract which they signed, need to reevaluate their standing. The guy is a major league prima donna. I get tired of guys making millions of dollars playing sports not agreeing to the contracts that they signed themselves. This wasn’t the decision of the management. It was a decision of the player. The management agreed to the contract, the player agreed to the contract and the management honored that contract while the player determined that the contract did not warrant him going to work. In what world is it right for the employee to agree to a contract in the millions of dollars, decide not to show up to work and then get mad at the management about that? 1
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted August 23, 2020 Posted August 23, 2020 5 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: It will be a heavy lift to cancel his contract over that and guys not liking him. Come on! No they are not. Not as a group. Might as well put Revis in there too--he held every team hostage for more money as soon as the ink on his latest contract dried. Again, the trouble makers (Haynesworth, AB) didn't last so that culture had no effect. Moss, Dillon, Johnson were hardly much "trouble". All of them had huge careers on their teams previous to NE. NE needed Dillon. Also Moss. Even Revis. I feel like we are arguing over nothing here! ? in any event, maybe we just are defining “trouble” differently. The players that the Patriots in the past have gone for have red flags (that can be trouble with the law, bad character, locker rooms problems, or bad attitude). The players I mentioned above fit that bill. You can call these guys “risky” or “troubled” or “wayward.” But in the end, the Pats mostly were able to get these guys to fall in line. I think that has to do with winning and culture— I am also not saying that their culture is “good” necessarily. But they run a tight ship; and guys have to get in line or they are out. 1
MiltonWaddams Posted August 23, 2020 Posted August 23, 2020 6 hours ago, Seoulofstone said: Are you expecting Vernon Butler to be a problem then? He flipped off Panthers fans for getting on his back. To be quite honest, yes. Or rather, it would not surprise me if he did take a bad turn. And, as I stated, does it surprise anybody when somebody with the transgressions that have occurred in their past has an additional transgression? No, it is not a surprise. Earl Thomas also had one heck of an off-season where he was caught naked in bed with his brother and a female . I think we can all agree that’s a bit messed up. 1
NewEra Posted August 23, 2020 Posted August 23, 2020 4 hours ago, MiltonWaddams said: So what you’re saying is that he stuck his middle finger up towards John Schneider and Pete Carroll and the rest of the management team without any fans in attendance? No, that’s not what he did. He stuck his middle finger up directly at the stands when it happened. I’ve seen the video. I know what happened. I also live in the Pacific Northwest and know what that represented to fans. The players who are not willing to live up to the contract which they signed, need to reevaluate their standing. The guy is a major league prima donna. I get tired of guys making millions of dollars playing sports not agreeing to the contracts that they signed themselves. This wasn’t the decision of the management. It was a decision of the player. The management agreed to the contract, the player agreed to the contract and the management honored that contract while the player determined that the contract did not warrant him going to work. In what world is it right for the employee to agree to a contract in the millions of dollars, decide not to show up to work and then get mad at the management about that? But the reality is, you have no idea who he was sticking his middle finger up at. The fans can think whatever they want. That doesn’t mean he was saying FU to the fans. There’s a big difference with regards to Earl Thomas the person. The fact is, you really don’t know. I’ve taken care of Earl on a couple occasions and he’s one of the nicest atheletes I’ve encountered. Extremely respectful, friendly and seemed to be all class. I have no idea who he was saying FU too and I won’t pretend to know
MiltonWaddams Posted August 23, 2020 Posted August 23, 2020 Just now, NewEra said: But the reality is, you have no idea who he was sticking his middle finger up at. The fans can think whatever they want. That doesn’t mean he was saying FU to the fans. There’s a big difference with regards to Earl Thomas the person. The fact is, you really don’t know. I’ve taken care of Earl on a couple occasions and he’s one of the nicest atheletes I’ve encountered. Extremely respectful, friendly and seemed to be all class. I have no idea who he was saying FU too and I won’t pretend to know I think that I should clarify. I am aware of his feelings towards the Seahawks management team and also feel that he was extending his middle finger to them and not to the fans whatsoever. However, it comes down to optics and those were bad optics. Although a lot of people around the country believe that Seahawks fans are not a strong fan base, or are bandwagon, a lot of my friends who are hawks fans here in the Pacific Northwest were definitely not elated with his actions. The team has a very strong Fanbase and, in my experience, Is largely quite a knowledgable group. They understood why he did what he did, but they did not understand why he would do it in the way that he did and it showed poorly on his character, despite what he had shown publicly to that point.
Herc11 Posted August 23, 2020 Posted August 23, 2020 (edited) 10 hours ago, Shaw66 said: I think Pete Carroll's true genius as coach was that he could maintain a winning culture with egos like Richard Sherman and Beast-Mode. I didn't realiize Thomas was one, too, but it just emphasizes the point. Its easier to maintain the egos before the accolades. As success and accolades build, egos and attitudes begin rearing their ugly heads and players begin feeling they are bigger than the team. That's when the true difficulties of maintaining a team come into play. Edited August 23, 2020 by Herc11
NewEra Posted August 23, 2020 Posted August 23, 2020 10 minutes ago, MiltonWaddams said: I think that I should clarify. I am aware of his feelings towards the Seahawks management team and also feel that he was extending his middle finger to them and not to the fans whatsoever. However, it comes down to optics and those were bad optics. Although a lot of people around the country believe that Seahawks fans are not a strong fan base, or are bandwagon, a lot of my friends who are hawks fans here in the Pacific Northwest were definitely not elated with his actions. The team has a very strong Fanbase and, in my experience, Is largely quite a knowledgable group. They understood why he did what he did, but they did not understand why he would do it in the way that he did and it showed poorly on his character, despite what he had shown publicly to that point. They should’ve realized that the dude was just seriously injured and was without the security he as asking for. Heat of the moment, they should get over it. He was a class act and key contributor to their super bowl victory. Without injury and he’s a first ballot HoF and one of the best safeties ever. Appreciate him and empathize with the moment he was in. I agree Seattle fans love their team. It was a raucous crowd on MNF a couple years ago
purple haze Posted August 23, 2020 Posted August 23, 2020 7 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: It will be a heavy lift to cancel his contract over that and guys not liking him. There would definitely be a legal battle over it. But the strength of the organization’s case depends on the evidence they have. Like I said, these fights probably won’t be the only ammunition they have against Thomas. I suspect other details will start to leak out. In a sport where on the field dustup’s are not rare, it’s telling that teammates want him gone. There has to be other stuff going on; how bad is that stuff is the question.
Shaw66 Posted August 23, 2020 Posted August 23, 2020 59 minutes ago, Herc11 said: Its easier to maintain the egos before the accolades. As success and accolades build, egos and attitudes begin rearing their ugly heads and players begin feeling they are bigger than the team. That's when the true difficulties of maintaining a team come into play. Lynch and Sherman had ego problems real early. 1
billieve420 Posted August 23, 2020 Posted August 23, 2020 10 hours ago, syhuang said: The incident: Dude is definitely not doing himself any favors by posting that video regardless of the fight in practice.
Paulus Posted August 23, 2020 Posted August 23, 2020 12 hours ago, mattynh said: He flipped off the Seahawks management not the fans And, they deserved it, if memory serves...
Mikie2times Posted August 23, 2020 Posted August 23, 2020 After a run of over 100 consecutive starts, he dislocated his shoulder in 2015 and required surgery. Then he broke his tibia in 2016. He had a outstanding recovery year in 2017 which took him to the last year of his contract. He held out at the start or 2018 wanting a new contract. I think he felt after all he had been through in 15 and 16 his performance in 17 warranted a new contract. Seattle didn't give it to him and most elites from the legion of boom already left or had a pretty thick layer of distrust with Carroll. Thomas was one of the last remaining. Few weeks into 2018 and he breaks his leg. If you watch the video you can tell Thomas knew his days in Seattle were over when he got injured, he had a momentary lapse in professionalism flipping Carroll off. I think the guy wants to win and doesn't have much patience for mistakes. Probably hasn't had a bond with a team since the legion of boom. If Baltimore doesn't work out, it's possible Thomas could retire. Depends on his finances. I don't think he wants to play anymore after all the injuries and if he does it comes with a poor attitude and demanding perfection. Baltimore vets don't feel he fits in. It will get interesting. I see this as a make or break point for Thomas.
Mr. WEO Posted August 23, 2020 Posted August 23, 2020 10 hours ago, purple haze said: There would definitely be a legal battle over it. But the strength of the organization’s case depends on the evidence they have. Like I said, these fights probably won’t be the only ammunition they have against Thomas. I suspect other details will start to leak out. In a sport where on the field dustup’s are not rare, it’s telling that teammates want him gone. There has to be other stuff going on; how bad is that stuff is the question. The details would have to border on criminal I would think. He is who they signed. They can’t pretend now that he’s so awful they won’t pay him
BillsMafi$ Posted August 23, 2020 Posted August 23, 2020 Per Adam Shefter he is going to be released or traded.
machine gun kelly Posted August 23, 2020 Posted August 23, 2020 Looks like we were wrong Weo. I can’t blame them if it was placed in his contract and they get out of the contract. He was probably warned after the Browns game when he got into it with their NT. “One more time, and you’re out”. I really love Harbaugh as a coach. He sharp and disciplined, and he created a winning culture considering the other conversation.
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