Unpopular Bills takes, Past and present.

[Midwest1981]

Not sure if this counts as one now, now that we're seeing the diametric opposite, which is just what competence, intelligence, preparedness, etc., in our front-office and ownership can do to a team.  But since a decent amount of fans, at least at the time, insisted otherwise, I'll throw out this: our parity-defying 17-year Playoff drought from 2000 through 2016 wasn't due to the Patriots' dominance (certainly didn't help effectively beginning the season 0-2) OR some "curse"- it was due to routine and abject ineptitude of the leaders in charge, many/most of whom never belonged there.  Whether it was Donahoe or 80-year-old and never-been-a-GM-before Levy or the nebulous "Inner Circle" (Brandon,  Modrak, Jauron, etc.) or Buddy Nix, who was hired in large part because Ralph Wilson "had heard of him before," those sort of poor decisions naturally resulted in perennial disappointment for our fanbase. 

 

The results on the field spoke for themselves but you don't institute 'Cash to the Cap,' hire retread head coaches not particularly successful in their first go-around, execute a trade of a HOF-talent and eventual inductee LT, overvalue the RB position visa vi the draft (repeatedly), etc., and produce positive results.

Edited August 21, 2020 by Midwest1981

[SirAndrew]

9 minutes ago, Midwest1981 said:

Not sure if this counts as one now, now that we're seeing the diametric opposite, which is just what competence, intelligence, preparedness, etc., in our front-office and ownership can do to a team.  But since a decent amount of fans, at least at the time, insisted otherwise, I'll throw out this: our parity-defying 17-year Playoff drought from 2000 through 2016 wasn't due to the Patriots' dominance (certainly didn't help effectively beginning the season 0-2) OR some "curse"- it was due to routine and abject ineptitude of the leaders in charge, many/most of whom never belonged there.  Whether it was Donahoe or 80-year-old and never-been-a-GM-before Levy or the nebulous "Inner Circle" (Brandon,  Modrak, Jauron, etc.) or Buddy Nix, who was hired in large part because Ralph Wilson "had heard of him before," those sort of poor decisions naturally resulted in perennial disappointment for our fanbase. 

 

The results on the field spoke for themselves but you don't institute 'Cash to the Cap,' hire retread head coaches not particularly successful in their first go-around, execute a trade of a HOF-talent and eventual inductee, overvalue the RB position visa vi the draft (repeatedly), etc., and produce positive results.

Yeah, I never joined forums like this, or talked much football with fellow Bills fans during the drought because that opinion was very unpopular. Any criticism of the franchise being a train wreck was taken very personally by most fans. Somehow, good things were just around the corner (even though we didn’t have a pro roster), and any criticism of management was just being negative. 

[Brennan Huff]

1 hour ago, May Day 10 said:

My one that gets me yelled at is that I believe Lee Evans was vastly overrated

Really? Who yells at you? Lee Evans was a one trick pony. Dude couldn’t run a route to save his life

[Buffalophil1948]

Lots of good ones here, but there is one that's stuck in my head.

We should keep 4 kickers on the final 53 roster

[Straight Hucklebuck]

15 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

Poz and London Fletcher were both excellent linebackers no matter how many times Bills fans claim they only made tackles "5 yards down field".  Neither player was Ray Lewis but that doesn't mean they sucked.

 

Bills fans will always cherish marginal NFL talents and resent blue chip players for making millions of dollars playing a kid's game.

 

This is 100% true.

 

Bills fans love the underdog story, and seem to enjoy trading away their best players for draft picks that may work harder and want to be in Buffalo more than the talent that was here.

 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

1 hour ago, Midwest1981 said:

Not sure if this counts as one now, now that we're seeing the diametric opposite, which is just what competence, intelligence, preparedness, etc., in our front-office and ownership can do to a team.  But since a decent amount of fans, at least at the time, insisted otherwise, I'll throw out this: our parity-defying 17-year Playoff drought from 2000 through 2016 wasn't due to the Patriots' dominance (certainly didn't help effectively beginning the season 0-2) OR some "curse"- it was due to routine and abject ineptitude of the leaders in charge, many/most of whom never belonged there.  Whether it was Donahoe or 80-year-old and never-been-a-GM-before Levy or the nebulous "Inner Circle" (Brandon,  Modrak, Jauron, etc.) or Buddy Nix, who was hired in large part because Ralph Wilson "had heard of him before," those sort of poor decisions naturally resulted in perennial disappointment for our fanbase. 

 

The results on the field spoke for themselves but you don't institute 'Cash to the Cap,' hire retread head coaches not particularly successful in their first go-around, execute a trade of a HOF-talent and eventual inductee, overvalue the RB position visa vi the draft (repeatedly), etc., and produce positive results.

 

We spent 13 combined years of Quarterbacking on JP Losman (2005-2006), Trent Edwards (2007-2009), Ryan Fitzpartick (2010-2012), EJ Manuel (2013), Kyle Orton (2014) and Tyrod Taylor (2015, 2016, 2017). 

 

Over a decade trying to win with backup caliber QB's, running the ball and playing defense. 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

4 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

Isn't a jersey also team gear? I've never understood the jersey's are only for kids crowd.

 

Yes, I wear jersey's on game day. 

Jersey's what?

[Straight Hucklebuck]

1 hour ago, Midwest1981 said:

Not sure if this counts as one now, now that we're seeing the diametric opposite, which is just what competence, intelligence, preparedness, etc., in our front-office and ownership can do to a team.  But since a decent amount of fans, at least at the time, insisted otherwise, I'll throw out this: our parity-defying 17-year Playoff drought from 2000 through 2016 wasn't due to the Patriots' dominance (certainly didn't help effectively beginning the season 0-2) OR some "curse"- it was due to routine and abject ineptitude of the leaders in charge, many/most of whom never belonged there.  Whether it was Donahoe or 80-year-old and never-been-a-GM-before Levy or the nebulous "Inner Circle" (Brandon,  Modrak, Jauron, etc.) or Buddy Nix, who was hired in large part because Ralph Wilson "had heard of him before," those sort of poor decisions naturally resulted in perennial disappointment for our fanbase. 

 

The results on the field spoke for themselves but you don't institute 'Cash to the Cap,' hire retread head coaches not particularly successful in their first go-around, execute a trade of a HOF-talent and eventual inductee LT, overvalue the RB position visa vi the draft (repeatedly), etc., and produce positive results.

"Russ and I scanned a list of possible candidates," Wilson said. "We didn't know them. I didn't know them. I don't think Russ did. We narrowed it down to two candidates for the job of general manager of football, two in-house candidates." - John Guy (Dick Jauron's failed Pro Personnel man) and Buddy Nix. 

 

We looked down the hallway for a GM because 30 years earlier it worked with Polian (who you fired anyways Ralph). 

[Rico]

2 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

Poz and London Fletcher were both excellent linebackers no matter how many times Bills fans claim they only made tackles "5 yards down field".  Neither player was Ray Lewis but that doesn't mean they sucked.

 

Bills fans will always cherish marginal NFL talents and resent blue chip players for making millions of dollars playing a kid's game.

Yes, Fletcher never deserved that rap. One of the better drought-era players.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

Just now, Rico said:

Yes, Fletcher never deserved that rap. One of the better drought-era players.

Bills management thought he was too old at 31. 

 

He went on to play 7 more seasons, starting at 16 games all 7 seasons. 

[Bill from NYC]

2 hours ago, Midwest1981 said:

Not sure if this counts as one now, now that we're seeing the diametric opposite, which is just what competence, intelligence, preparedness, etc., in our front-office and ownership can do to a team.  But since a decent amount of fans, at least at the time, insisted otherwise, I'll throw out this: our parity-defying 17-year Playoff drought from 2000 through 2016 wasn't due to the Patriots' dominance (certainly didn't help effectively beginning the season 0-2) OR some "curse"- it was due to routine and abject ineptitude of the leaders in charge, many/most of whom never belonged there.  Whether it was Donahoe or 80-year-old and never-been-a-GM-before Levy or the nebulous "Inner Circle" (Brandon,  Modrak, Jauron, etc.) or Buddy Nix, who was hired in large part because Ralph Wilson "had heard of him before," those sort of poor decisions naturally resulted in perennial disappointment for our fanbase. 

 

The results on the field spoke for themselves but you don't institute 'Cash to the Cap,' hire retread head coaches not particularly successful in their first go-around, execute a trade of a HOF-talent and eventual inductee LT, overvalue the RB position visa vi the draft (repeatedly), etc., and produce positive results.

Let's not forget placing a higher value on dbs than any other position.

 

You should post more often. 

Edited August 21, 2020 by Bill from NYC

[boco357]

I always believed Aaron Schobel was over rated.  He put up some solid numbers, but I thought a lot of time was garbage time production. I am trying to think back of a huge game changing play, but off the top of my head can't.

 

 

[spartacus]

3 hours ago, Jerry Jabber said:

Drafting RB's and DB's in the first round almost every year during that period was another reason why the Bills were terrible. McGahee (a first round pick) was traded for two #rd round picks and a 7th rounder, Lynch was traded for a 4th rounder. I forget about Whitner (don't remember if his contract expired or was traded), when we could of had Ngata instead. A lot of dumb decisions back then.

 

IMO, the Bills should of tanked for a couple of years after Bledsoe was released and built the team up the right way, instead of the path they went, which they ended up going 6-10/7-9 almost every year.

 

The flaw in the draft strategy was spending 1st round draft capital on press cover corners and then wasting them in soft zone defenses.

if you are commited to zone, use lower picks to find CBs good at zone coverage

 

The disconnect between the skill set of players acquired and how they were to be used has been a major problem during the 20 year drought.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 21, 2020 by spartacus

[BillsfaninSB]

The mono red uniform is the worst look in the league.  Perhaps worse that the Rams and Falcons but we will see when they are on the field. 

[spartacus]

1 hour ago, Brennan Huff said:

Really? Who yells at you? Lee Evans was a one trick pony. Dude couldn’t run a route to save his life

Worse was that we passed on Vince Wilfork for Evans

[Bill from NYC]

7 hours ago, boco357 said:

I always believed Aaron Schobel was over rated.  He put up some solid numbers, but I thought a lot of time was garbage time production. I am trying to think back of a huge game changing play, but off the top of my head can't.

 

 

I disagree. Often he was really the only player on the team with any pass rushing ability. Sometimes they would line him up so wide he was almost on the sideline. Then they would at times drop him into coverage. At the beginning I do admit that he was rather one dimensional, but he really came around. He would have made much more of an impact n a team with good players and decent coaches.

The Bills were of course playing from behind quite often and teams would be running out the clock, thus giving him less opportunities for sacks.

 

I thought AS was a very fine player, and would gladly agree to disagree.

Edited August 22, 2020 by Bill from NYC

[GunnerBill]

23 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

Let's not forget placing a higher value on dbs than any other position.

 

You should post more often. 

 

Which is the way defenses in the league are going at the moment.... the Bills were 20 years ahead of their time

11 minutes ago, spartacus said:

 

The flaw in the draft strategy was spending 1st round draft capital on press cover corners and then wasting them in soft zone defenses.

if you are commited to zone, use lower picks to find CBs good at zone coverage

 

The disconnect between the skill set of players acquired and how they were to be used has been a major problem during the 20 year drought.

 

 

 

 

 

Yep. Because other than Nix - Gailey (and they flip flopped on what defense they were running the first two years) we never had a Coach and GM who were aligned until this regime. 

 

I have said it before but it was an organisational and institutional failure to understand what it takes and commitment to doing what it takes to win. It was more than a collection of bad individual decision in drafting and signing it was a failure to institute a framework that prevents those bad decisions. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

11 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

If we are talking unpopular takes that are still unpopular..... Stephon Gilmore was a really good Bill. He didn't give up, or avoid contact or any of the other crazy accusations. Nor does he get fewer penalties on him because he plays in New England. Other than his rookie year (which is understandable) his highest penalty count came in 2018 as a Patriot.

McD let him walk and then McD and Beane blew a third round comp pick by keeping a couple of street free agents on the squad.

9 hours ago, BillsPride12 said:

I'm not buying all these Marv Levy being one of the most overrated coaches in NFL history takes because to me he doesn't get major recognition throughout the NFL community like when you hear names like Belicheck, Lombardi, Joe Gibbs and so on and so on.  Is he beloved by Bills fans?  Absolutely.  Should he be?  Absolutely.  But I don't think from a league wide perspective he is overrated nor underrated.  I think he's just one of those guys who has his rightful place in NFL history.  He was a very good coach but not one of the all-time giants.

 

My take is that these Levy is overrated takes come from salty Bills fans who are still angry about the four Super Bowl losses 30 years later.  

He was enshrined in Canton far faster than Bill Cowher and Jimmy Johnson - guys that actually won SuperBowls.  So I think he is plenty overrated by more than just Bills fans.

[Midwest1981]

While I can't prove it (no one can either way), I don't buy the narrative that Adrian Wilson's hit which concussed Trent Edwards in week 5 of the 2008 season is the reason he failed to become a franchise QB.  I think it's a little lazy to assume he would have, especially when even those who attribute the hit to Edwards' career demise admit he arguably had the best game of his career in the very next game he played, week 7 at home against the Chargers.

 

Even though the Bills started 4-0 in 2008, in retrospect it was schedule-aided; expected Playoff teams like the Seahawks & Jaguars had terrible years, we had to mount a comeback against a bad Raiders team, and the Rams finished with the second pick in the draft.  And while Edwards played well, he was far from a prolific passer- he had exactly 4 TD passes (through 4 games) coming into that game against Arizona.

 

Edwards revealed a major liability a month later in that Monday night game where we hosted Cleveland- the Browns dropped 7 into coverage and he was lost, throwing 3 picks.  And he never had the requisite moxie and fearlessness you just have to have at least some of to succeed as an NFL starting QB, too often proving his penchant for checking it down.  "Captain Checkdown" was a real thing.  Edwards as a franchise QB probably was not and never was.

Edited August 21, 2020 by Midwest1981

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, Midwest1981 said:

While I can't prove it (no one can either way), I don't buy the narrative that Adrian Wilson's hit which concussed Trent Edwards in week 5 of the 2008 season is the reason he failed to become a franchise QB.  I think it's a little lazy to assume he would have, especially when even those who attribute the hit to Edwards' career demise admit he arguably had the best game of his career in the very next game he played, week 7 at home against the Chargers.

 

Even though the Bills started 4-0 in 2008, in retrospect it was schedule-aided; expected Playoff teams like the Seahawks & Jaguars had terrible years, we had to mount a comeback against a bad Raiders team, and the Rams finished with the second pick in the draft.  And while Edwards played well, he was far from a prolific passer- he had exactly 4 TD passes (through 4 games) coming into that game against Arizona.

 

Edwards revealed a major liability a month later in that Monday night game where we hosted Cleveland- the Browns dropped 7 into coverage and he was lost, throwing 4 picks.  And he never had the requisite moxie and bravery you just have to have at least some of to succeed as an NFL starting QB, too often proving his penchant for checking it down.  "Captain Checkdown" was a real thing.

 

That might have been unpopular for a few weeks in 2008 but I think everyone now accepts it as a fact. 

Edited August 21, 2020 by GunnerBill