Unpopular Bills takes, Past and present.

[Jerry Jabber]

Mike Mularkey came up with some good trick plays.

Doug Whaley was good in Free Agency.

Doug Marrone was good at hiring Defensive Coordinators.

[BullBuchanan]

10 hours ago, Mango said:

Lynch was easily the better back. 
 

Hot take I don’t take back: Buffalo, the same city that put Kaeps face in cross hairs, ran Lynch out of town. Dude was parked on the side of the road in a rich neighborhood in a Mercedes. Cops came to the car for no reason. Claimed to smell pot. Searched the car, found no burning or burnt weed, but did find a registered gun in a backpack in the trunk along with a couple of joints in the bag.

 

It was a giant nothing burger. It wasn’t some thugged out incident threatening his career. Oh yeah, he clipped a drunk girl dancing in the street in the rain. Not condoning that, but this isn’t any wild uncontrollable behavior. 
 

That was a stupid trade. 

Lynch wasn't a great back when he was in Buffalo. He did have some great moments, though - like the Cleveland game. Something changed when he got to Seattle. That was a completely different player.

Edited August 21, 2020 by BullBuchanan

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

2 hours ago, Beast said:

 

Outside of McCoy, you just named a bunch of players that scared absolutely nobody during their time in Buffalo.

 

Despite your opinion of those players,  the 2015 and 2016 offenses statistically as a collective group were the best we've ever had since 2002, Bledsoe's first season with us. And it's not really close. Sure the bar was low but still, it was a big turn-around for the offense and just  1-2 years removed from the 4th ranked defense in both points and yards. 

 

The expectation for this year is that the 2020 Bills offense will be much improved but statistically they probably won't be better than the '15 and '16 offenses. If they are we should probably cruise to a division title. 

[GunnerBill]

22 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

Gilmore's down fall here was due in part to Rex Ryan. The defense went from top 5 to bottom half of the league. Talented or not, Gilmore did not seem to be a puzzle piece that was worth spending somewhat significant money on to re-sign. I think if we had a top 10 defense still under Rex then Whaley may have been more inclined to see the value in Gilmore. He also had his injury history early on in his career missing 14 out of 80 games in 5 years. Not terrible but not ideal either. Questions remained if he was injured in his early 20's how would his body hold up as he approached his 30's.

 

Whaley didn't let Gilmore go that was McDermott. And a rebuilding team who are going to play a heavy zone defense doesn't pay elite money to a top end man corner. The decision to let him go was understandable IMO. Takes nothing away from what he was here. 

[BullBuchanan]

7 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

No, he wasn't responsible for Bruce being available. But that's a pretty precise re-framing job. Looked at it in that way, no GM was ever responsible for who was available to him, nor every will be.

 

But yes, he was precisely responsible for picking him. He could've made a mistake. He didn't. Same with Manning vs. Ryan Leaf. Could've made a mistake. Didn't.

 

Polian was a terrific drafter. Bill, anyway.

 

And by the time that Peyton had that injury and was out for the year, Chris Polian had taken over Indy's drafts for the previous three years from his dad. I'd have no argument with you if you want to argue that Chris Polian is not much of a drafter.

 

Anyway, good unpopular take. I know this thread title is constructed to produce takes that are hard to back up, I get that.

The data backs it up. Most of his draft choices were busts. He had a horrible rate of drafting guys that made it more than a season or two.

[GunnerBill]

16 minutes ago, Beast said:

 

It was. Where are they now? Where were all those great players after?

 

 

Sammy is a Superbowl Champion. Hogan is a 2 time Superbowl Champion. Robert Woods made a Superbowl and had two thousand yard seasons. Goodwin almost had a thousand yard season too and has made a Superbowl. Shady is a Superbowl champion.

 

Harvin has retired and Clay's on his last legs. Karlos went off the rails. Nobody is arguing they were the best offense in the league. You said they had no offensive talent. I can understand why you are now trying to change the goalposts.

16 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Are those socks stiff?

 

They move better than Trent.

[TheyCallMeAndy]

Aaron Schobel was NOT a garbage time sack artist.

 

Rian Lindell is in the same tier as Steve Christie

 

Brian Moorman should be on the Wall

 

Stevie Johnson was overrated 

London Fletcher was underrated 

[BullBuchanan]

Just now, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Aaron Schobel was NOT a garbage time sack artist.

 

Rian Lindell is in the same tier as Steve Christie

 

Brian Moorman should be on the Wall

 

Stevie Johnson was overrated 

London Fletcher was underrated 

Oof
Yes
Obviously
Oof
I don't think so. He was great.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

 The one area I completely missed in my evaluation of him was how dangerous he is with his legs. I totally missed on that. 

 

Same here. I was a anyone by JA guy at the time. I think everyone including probably Beane and McDermott are probably taken back by how athletic Josh Allen is at the NFL level. He never dominated at Wyoming with his legs like he does in the NFL. It's rare that a QB actually becomes more dominant with their legs at the next level. 

 

The Texans playoff game was a perfect example of his athletic ability. Can't think of another QB that could have a 50 yard rush and a 20 yard TD reception on the same series. 

[DCofNC]

14 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

Bill Polian is drastically overrated in Buffalo
Doug Whaley was a much better GM than most in Buffalo think. If he hit on QB, his whole story is different.

Actually, I don’t think that’s all that crazy.  Aside from QB, Whaley built a strong team as evidence by the year McDermott took over, they were a playoff team, with a mediocre QB.  The really regrettable part is not letting Whaley actually take his QB that draft, I feel it would have been Watson, but Maholmes was obviously there too.  By playing it “safe” the Bills blew it.  Imagine the possibilities of that team even with the rookie version of Watson.  He was obsessed with stature, but he had built a good team, regardless of what people want to think.  The contracts were not always good, but why Overdorf isn’t given more blame for that is my real question.  What a lot of people don’t know, DW was THE reason they signed Mario Williams and yes, I understand he went on to struggle with Rex turning him into a friggin LB, but he was a really good signing when he was being used correctly.  
 

 

[Seasons1992]

22 minutes ago, Steve O said:

What's forgotten is that in the previous drive Norwood slipped on the extra point and it was blocked, or a field goal would have tied the game after the drop

 

Well, I WAS having a good day.........curses to you!

[SirAndrew]

1 minute ago, DCofNC said:

Actually, I don’t think that’s all that crazy.  Aside from QB, Whaley built a strong team as evidence by the year McDermott took over, they were a playoff team, with a mediocre QB.  The really regrettable part is not letting Whaley actually take his QB that draft, I feel it would have been Watson, but Maholmes was obviously there too.  By playing it “safe” the Bills blew it.  Imagine the possibilities of that team even with the rookie version of Watson.  He was obsessed with stature, but he had built a good team, regardless of what people want to think.  The contracts were not always good, but why Overdorf isn’t given more blame for that is my real question.  What a lot of people don’t know, DW was THE reason they signed Mario Williams and yes, I understand he went on to struggle with Rex turning him into a friggin LB, but he was a really good signing when he was being used correctly.  
 

 

Whaley did well in free agency, but QB wasn’t the only thing he missed in the draft. Maybe I undervalue some of the players he drafted, but I thought every Whaley draft was very weak. 

[DCofNC]

14 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

Because I think he was at best average at drafting, not just in Buffalo, but Indy too. The best 2 players he ever drafted were consensus #1 overalls in Bruce and Manning. Give him credit for Getting Andre Reed in the 4th round. He built those teams in a pre-salarycap era largely by paying Jim Kelly the highest salary ever for an NFL player.

Essentially, I think a lot of Polian's success was luck of getting franchise QB's and elite talent at the top of drafts. And the fact that neither the Bills nor the Colts won anywhere near as much as they should have is the result of his weaknesses. He had a ton of mid round picks that never even ended up playing a game. Granted, there was a lot more rounds in those days , but if he didn't need the picks he should have done something more valuable with them.

Edit: I think the fact that he didn't build the Bills on a salary cap in Buffalo, and that he was unable to build a balanced team in Indy under a cap is further indictment.

I agree, he’s kind of the Phil Jackson of NFL GMs, you can look awfully good with some of the Best talent EVER dropped in your lap.  

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

1 hour ago, Talley56 said:

Present - 2019 playoff run was more exciting than 2017.

 

Agreed. 2017 wasn't really a playoff run at all. We just fell ass backwards into the playoffs. It was certainly a very exciting moment/end to the season. But there was no real build up in the weeks leading up to the end of the season that made it feel like we were on a run to the playoffs.

[Steve O]

12 minutes ago, Jerry Jabber said:

Mike Mularkey came up with some good trick plays.

 

There's a fictional B movie  about the bills called Second String. Mularkey actually tried two of the plays from the movie in games. In one of them, Bledsoe starts walking off the field, starts to call a time out but his hands don't touch and there is a direct snap to the running back. Play worked in the movie, not so much in the game. As we're still in the midst of a pandemic, if you haven't seen the movie watch it.

[BullBuchanan]

5 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

Actually, I don’t think that’s all that crazy.  Aside from QB, Whaley built a strong team as evidence by the year McDermott took over, they were a playoff team, with a mediocre QB.  The really regrettable part is not letting Whaley actually take his QB that draft, I feel it would have been Watson, but Maholmes was obviously there too.  By playing it “safe” the Bills blew it.  Imagine the possibilities of that team even with the rookie version of Watson.  He was obsessed with stature, but he had built a good team, regardless of what people want to think.  The contracts were not always good, but why Overdorf isn’t given more blame for that is my real question.  What a lot of people don’t know, DW was THE reason they signed Mario Williams and yes, I understand he went on to struggle with Rex turning him into a friggin LB, but he was a really good signing when he was being used correctly.  
 

 

I do that every single time he plays. I'll be the first to admit, I thought Mahomes would be a bust just like other Air Raid college studs. Watson on the other hand I thought was can't miss and when he fell to us I was over the moon. I've never really gotten over passing on Watson and then selling the farm the following year to get a lesser prospect in Allen. Regardless of how their careers turns out, it's abundantly clear who the better prospect was.

[Steve O]

5 minutes ago, Seasons1992 said:

 

Well, I WAS having a good day.........curses to you!

sorry about that

[eball]

25 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

Isn't a jersey also team gear? I've never understood the jersey's are only for kids crowd.

 

Yes, I wear jersey's on game day. 

 

I know I'm not changing anyone's mind.  Just a personal observation.  I think it looks silly.  Do you put on your pads too so the jersey doesn't look ridiculously oversized?  And don't get me started on the guys who tuck their jerseys into their jeans.

 

[BullBuchanan]

4 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

I agree, he’s kind of the Phil Jackson of NFL GMs, you can look awfully good with some of the Best talent EVER dropped in your lap.  

Exactly. Some people here seem to think I mean that he was incompetent. I just think he's not some genius visionary.

[Jauronimo]

 

11 hours ago, Mango said:

Nobody wants to admit it because it’s more fun to crack jokes, but Buddy Nix and Chan Gailey were integral first steps to righting the nearly 20 years of wrong with this franchise. It took longer than we wanted, but the team had come off of a run at GM that included the corpse of Marv Levy,  Russ Brandon, and Tom Donohoe running our drafts. George Wilson was our starting SS and the dude was a WR like 12 weeks before the season. Think about that. That’s the depth chart Gailey and Nix inherited. Your best Safety could also be your slot receiver. There is literally nobody else on the roster...on a franchise in the NFL. Let’s not forget before that Tom D. Traded a first for Rob Johnson. Then had 20% of the cap tied up in Flutie and Johnson in 2000. Later cut RJ and took a larger dead cap hit on top of that. Our top 5 players are like 50% of the cap at that point. Then he traded ANOTHER First round pick for Drew Bledsoe. But wait, we aren’t done yet, in 2004 we traded a 1st and 2nd round pick to trade back into the first for JP Losman. What a total disaster. 
 

Gailey and Fitz are remembered better than Jauron because we had real football players, real football coaches, and a real football exec in the FO (granted with flaws). What those guys inherited in hindsight was not a professional football franchise. It reads almost like “Major League”. 

Very true.  That offense had zero talent.  7th round draft picks, UDFAs, Division 3 guys at skill positions playing behind a terrible offensive line with a highly limited QB and Donald effing Jones as your deep threat.  Its amazing they ever crossed the 50 yard line. 

 

Somehow the defense was even worse and its in large part due to Chan and Nix deciding to go with a 3-4 despite none of the personnel to run it.  Schobel retired which hurt.  They moved decent players out of position to compensate, like Kelsay to OLB, and filled in the gaps with lack luster draft picks like Troupe, Carrington aka Megahand, Moats, Batten and a bunch of other bums.