Unpopular Bills takes, Past and present.

[Mango]

2 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

Fred Jackson would have had a HOF career if we didn't draft Lynch and Spiller and made Jackson our future back from day one.

Lynch was easily the better back. 
 

Hot take I don’t take back: Buffalo, the same city that put Kaeps face in cross hairs, ran Lynch out of town. Dude was parked on the side of the road in a rich neighborhood in a Mercedes. Cops came to the car for no reason. Claimed to smell pot. Searched the car, found no burning or burnt weed, but did find a registered gun in a backpack in the trunk along with a couple of joints in the bag.

 

It was a giant nothing burger. It wasn’t some thugged out incident threatening his career. Oh yeah, he clipped a drunk girl dancing in the street in the rain. Not condoning that, but this isn’t any wild uncontrollable behavior. 
 

That was a stupid trade. 

Edited August 21, 2020 by Mango
Grammar/Auto Correct

[Mango]

16 minutes ago, eball said:

I think Doug’s record since he quit in Buffalo has shown that while he might not be a “bad” coach, he’s also not a particularly good one. He’s middling on his best day, with a 39-46 career record including playoffs. He brings discipline to a team but doesn’t appear to be very adept at game planning for either the offensive or defensive side of the ball. He’s had conflicts with star players and his overly conservative mindset kept his team from going to a Super Bowl. He did win a couple of playoff games so there’s that, but he also took that Jaguars team coming off an AFC Championship game appearance and drove them into the ground (11-21 since).

 

I think he is the Meh version Gregg Williams. Like he isn’t even as good as Greggo at the bad things. Marrone is an OK HC, but can’t get out of his own way, and most importantly his douchey, arrogant, schtick gets old quick. He’s a good interim coach for a franchise in turmoil but you can’t hitch your wagon to him. 
 

Greggo is actually a much better coordinator and coach than Marrone I think, at least when it comes to the actual X’s and O’s. Gregg is also an A-hole, so is Marrone, but in addition to not coaching as well as Gregg, Marrone isn’t as good at being a dick. 

[eball]

4 minutes ago, Mango said:

I think he is the Meh version Gregg Williams. Like he isn’t even as good as Greggo at the bad things. Marrone is an OK HC, but can’t get out of his own way, and most importantly his douchey, arrogant, schtick gets old quick. He’s a good interim coach for a franchise in turmoil but you can’t hitch your wagon to him. 
 

Greggo is actually a much better coordinator and coach than Marrone I think, at least when it comes to the actual X’s and O’s. Gregg is also an A-hole, so is Marrone, but in addition to not coaching as well as Gregg, Marrone isn’t as good at being a dick. 

Greggo is a worse HC than Doug. He’s a decent coordinator but to me he seems like a caricature of himself now. 

[JaBu]

4 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

Bill Polian is drastically overrated in Buffalo
Doug Whaley was a much better GM than most in Buffalo think. If he hit on QB, his whole story is different.

 

So it is just a coincidence and luck that the three teams Polian was GM for were winners? Carolina in it's 2nd year to the NFC Championship, Buffalo to Super Bowls and Colts to numerous consecutive playoff appearances (8) and a Super Bowl win? Though important, drafting is only part of the role and responsibility of a GM; there is a whole lot more to the job than that, which directly impacts a team.

[NoHuddleKelly12]

Past: Rewatch the first 15 minutes of SBXXVII, if you dare. You’ll see a Bills team that grabbed early momentum (blocked punt, early TD, FG) and could’ve beaten the Cowboys but for a couple fluke plays on D that sent the game into a comedic tailspin. Honorable mention, the Cowboys got away with multiple flagrant personal conduct fouls (here’s looking at you “ol go for the knees” Ken Norton Jr.) that iced their cake. 
 

Present: Levi Wallace will still start this year over the imported competition and lock it down opposite White. 

[JaBu]

3 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

I’m glad we kept Kemp.

 

Me too. I got his autograph as a kid after a practice at the old Blasdell Motel field they used as a training camp in those days (hard to believe with their facilities these days https://www.thegamebeforethemoney.com/this-might-surprise-you-pro-football-training-camp-at-a-motel/ ). 

 

Years later my wife saw him at a convention he was speaking at and told him about that autograph, so he gave her another one to give me for posterity.  ?

[LABILLBACKER]

Flutie is better than Robojoke....

there I said it....

[BobbyC81]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Honestly my least popular take ever on this board (even more so than not being a fan of the Josh Allen selection) was saying that Nate Peterman didn't have enough talent to spend a draft pick on. I had said it all that draft season way before he became a Bill but suddenly when we drafted him it became an unpopular take. 

 

I have been on these forums some 7 or 8 years and saying before he ever played a game that Nate Peterman totally sucked is the only opinion that has ever resulted in abusive and threatening PMs. 

 

Of course it isn't controversial now. But he had a completely crazed fanbase on here for a while. 

Will Jake Fromm (State Farm) be as popular as Peterman?  Maybe the thing we’ll miss the most with no preseason games is getting to watch him.

[Mango]

28 minutes ago, eball said:

Greggo is a worse HC than Doug. He’s a decent coordinator but to me he seems like a caricature of himself now. 

Meh, tomato tomato. I generally agree. I was just saying that Marrone is Greggo lite. He isn’t as good of a coordinator (what I meant by coach) and he isn’t as good at being an arrogant prick. Maybe Marrone is a better HC but GW is the better coordinator. Maybe not. That’s a different thread. I also don’t think we “missed the boat” by getting rid of him at all. I will say those were the Donohoe years though. We had some good defenses if I recall, but we also spent 3 1sts, a 2nd, and a 4th on Rob Johnson, Doug Flutie, and Drew Bledsoe. At one point Flutie and Johnson accounted for 10M of our cap. The highest paid player in the league at that point was Bledsoe at $8.5M. Don’t worry. We traded for Bledsoe later. And our top 5 players accounted for about 50% of our entire cap. The team was destined for failure too to bottom. 
 

(I just posted something similar about TD earlier in the thread. I was happy to use it again. Ha)

[BullBuchanan]

41 minutes ago, jabu said:

 

So it is just a coincidence and luck that the three teams Polian was GM for were winners? Carolina in it's 2nd year to the NFC Championship, Buffalo to Super Bowls and Colts to numerous consecutive playoff appearances (8) and a Super Bowl win? Though important, drafting is only part of the role and responsibility of a GM; there is a whole lot more to the job than that, which directly impacts a team.

Yes. He was an average drafter at best, did not appear to be able to manage a salary cap correctly and for all the talent that was graced upon him, he got 1 super bowl out of the whole thing. Overrated doesn't mean he was terrible. He had next to nothing to do with the 97 panthers success who would follow up that fluke NFC Championship appearance with 7 seasons before they posted another winning record.

As evidenced by what happened as soon as Manning was injured, it because clear that the entire franchise was a joke without him. They were a glass cannon built around a single player. 

Edited August 21, 2020 by BullBuchanan

[Mango]

18 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

Past: Rewatch the first 15 minutes of SBXXVII, if you dare. You’ll see a Bills team that grabbed early momentum (blocked punt, early TD, FG) and could’ve beaten the Cowboys but for a couple fluke plays on D that sent the game into a comedic tailspin. Honorable mention, the Cowboys got away with multiple flagrant personal conduct fouls (here’s looking at you “ol go for the knees” Ken Norton Jr.) that iced their cake. 
 

Present: Levi Wallace will still start this year over the imported competition and lock it down opposite White. 

Not much of a hot take. He had the job last year. Also E.J. Gaines opted out. Who is left Taron Johnson? He generally plays in the nickel and does a good job there. The only one close to upsetting Wallace is Norman. He’s a total wild card at the moment. It does sound like he picked off JA today though. 
 

The hot take might be what you mean by “lock it down”

[JaBu]

7 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Yes. He was an average drafter at best, did not appear to be able to manage a salary cap correctly and for all the talent that was graced upon him, he got 1 super bowl out of the whole thing. Overrated doesn't mean he was terrible.

 

So "for all the talent that was graced upon him", who was responsible for putting that together? And isn't it the coaches that are responsible for taking that talent and producing championships? GM's don't coach the talent.

[BullBuchanan]

17 minutes ago, jabu said:

 

So "for all the talent that was graced upon him", who was responsible for putting that together? And isn't it the coaches that are responsible for taking that talent and producing championships? GM's don't coach the talent.

Was he responsible for the greatest pass rusher in NFL history and the 2nd greatest quarterback in NFL history being available to him with the 1rst overall pick? 

 

When Peyton got injured, a perennial Superbowl contender immediately became the worst team in the league and they stayed that way until they "Lucked" into another immediate franchise QB. He was in the right place at the right time, that's all.

[JaBu]

2 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Was he responsible for the greatest pass rusher in NFL history and the 2nd greatest quarterback in NFL history being available to him with the 1rst overall pick? 

 

When Peyton got injured, a perennial Superbowl contender immediately became the worst team in the league and they stayed that way until they "Lucked" into another immediate franchise QB. He was in the right place at the right time, that's all.

 

OK, so you are confirming my premise in my first post, that you just think it was luck that he has put together winning playoff teams everywhere he 's been a GM. ??

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Marv was an average coach and should not be in the HOF.  Just about any other HC wins SuperBowl XXV if they tell Kelly to stop throwing and keep giving Thurman the ball

Talley was an average LB and should not be on the Wall of Fame

Tasker does not belong in the HOF

Reed was a great player but a fringe HOF player. However when they let in Irvin and Monk, Reed should have followed the second year he was eligible.

Edmunds would be a first team all-pro Outside LB. I'm not sure he will ever be a great middle linebacker. 

Star will be missed.

White is a great corner but he is not an elite shut down corner.

Owning and wearing a Brian Moorman jersey is sad

I don't understand fans wearing old player jerseys to games for guys like Owens, Lynch, Moorman, Evans, Spiller, or any other Bill that is not a true great.  Spend a few bucks and get a jersey for a current player or where Bills team gear.  Once an average player is gone from the Bills donate that thing to Goodwill.

 

 

 

[Thurman#1]

6 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

I agree about Whaley. He wasn't nearly as bad as his reputation around here.  Don't know enough about Polian to judge him one way or the other.

 

 

He really was.

 

But still, nice unpopular take.

 

 

2 hours ago, Mango said:

Lynch was easily the better back. 
 

Hot take I don’t take back: Buffalo, the same city that put Kaeps face in cross hairs, ran Lynch out of town. Dude was parked on the side of the road in a rich neighborhood in a Mercedes. Cops came to the car for no reason. Claimed to smell pot. Searched the car, found no burning or burnt weed, but did find a registered gun in a backpack in the trunk along with a couple of joints in the bag.

 

It was a giant nothing burger. It wasn’t some thugged out incident threatening his career. Oh yeah, he clipped a drunk girl dancing in the street in the rain. Not condoning that, but this isn’t any wild uncontrollable behavior. 
 

That was a stupid trade. 

 

 

That Mercedes pot thing didn't happen in Buffalo. It was in Culver City, California.

 

And Lynch forced his way out of Buffalo. Let's look again at his yards per carry over 2007 to 2014:

 

2007  4.0

2008  4.1

2009  3.8

2010  3.6

2011  4.2

2012  5.0

2013  4.2

2014  4.7

 

Is it me, or are there two outliers there? Weird ....!  Funny how his first full year in Seattle he all of a sudden became quite excellent again. You'd think, "Boy, those OLs in Buffalo in 2009 and 2010 must have sucked," if Freddy hadn't run for 4.5 and 4.2 YPC behind the same OLs those two years.

 

That trade was forced on them.

 

 

 

Edited August 21, 2020 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

1 hour ago, BullBuchanan said:

Was he responsible for the greatest pass rusher in NFL history and the 2nd greatest quarterback in NFL history being available to him with the 1rst overall pick? 

 

When Peyton got injured, a perennial Superbowl contender immediately became the worst team in the league and they stayed that way until they "Lucked" into another immediate franchise QB. He was in the right place at the right time, that's all.

 

 

No, he wasn't responsible for Bruce being available. But that's a pretty precise re-framing job. Looked at it in that way, no GM was ever responsible for who was available to him, nor every will be.

 

But yes, he was precisely responsible for picking him. He could've made a mistake. He didn't. Same with Manning vs. Ryan Leaf. Could've made a mistake. Didn't.

 

Polian was a terrific drafter. Bill, anyway.

 

And by the time that Peyton had that injury and was out for the year, Chris Polian had taken over Indy's drafts for the previous three years from his dad. I'd have no argument with you if you want to argue that Chris Polian is not much of a drafter.

 

Anyway, good unpopular take. I know this thread title is constructed to produce takes that are hard to back up, I get that.

Edited August 21, 2020 by Thurman#1

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, BullBuchanan said:

Was he responsible for the greatest pass rusher in NFL history and the 2nd greatest quarterback in NFL history being available to him with the 1rst overall pick? 

 

When Peyton got injured, a perennial Superbowl contender immediately became the worst team in the league and they stayed that way until they "Lucked" into another immediate franchise QB. He was in the right place at the right time, that's all.

 

I will defend Polian a little in Indy (although I do think there is some truth to your overall critique). Had Manning missed a season 4 or 5 years earlier I think the Colts would have still been a .500 football team. By the time he did miss a season they were an old and uneven roster. That was in part Polian semi-retiring and handing the reigns to his son who was next to useless and in part coaching that really struggled to wean itself off vets that it trusted. Freeney and Mathis were still hogging the snaps despite them spending a 1st on a young Jerry Hughes. Good organisations know how to do that transition and Indy didn't. Not absolving Polian from all blame. It was still "his watch" but you can't quite judge his entire time there by the mess at the end. There were other architects of that.

2 hours ago, Mango said:

Maybe Marrone is a better HC but GW is the better coordinator. Maybe not.

 

I think this is absolutely right.

[GunnerBill]

If we are talking unpopular takes that are still unpopular..... Stephon Gilmore was a really good Bill. He didn't give up, or avoid contact or any of the other crazy accusations. Nor does he get fewer penalties on him because he plays in New England. Other than his rookie year (which is understandable) his highest penalty count came in 2018 as a Patriot.

[GunnerBill]

5 hours ago, Beast said:

Talent all over the roster except on the offensive side of the ball.

 

Watkins, Woods, Harvin, Hogan, Goodwin, Clay, McCoy, Karlos Williams...... I mean it has taken us basically 5 years to get back to a lineup of skill position players like that. I would probably take 2020 over 2015, just. But this is the first year since that you can even make an argument that the talent is on par or better.