Unpopular Bills takes, Past and present.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

Fred Jackson would have had a HOF career if we didn't draft Lynch and Spiller and made Jackson our future back from day one.

[KD in CA]

2 hours ago, Buftex said:

Not sure I agree that Polian is overrated, at least during his time in Buffalo.. but I very much agree about Whaley.  

 

Here's the draft record...every player who played 100+ games plus a few other notables.   He didn't hit it out of the park every year, but overall a lot of big names on that list, especially in the early years.

 

[Rc2catch]

Peerless price was the best receiver we’ve had since Diggs walked in the door.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

7 minutes ago, Buftex said:

 

 

Past part 2: Dick Jauron was the worst Bills coach in my Bills lifetime...in my 48 years of living and dying with this team, the Dick Jauron era was the most joyless time of all. They may not have been the worst Bills teams ever, but they were just misrable to watch. I will never forget that Sunday late in the season, playing he Jets in the Meadowlands...Bills, after a mini good-start to the season lost something like six of eight games..the season, like so many others was circling the drain...but the Bills have a 27-24 win in the final minutes....JP Losman is getting his final shot at proving himself as a starting QB on a lousy team. All they gotta do is ice the game...run the clock out...we can all be a little happy for a week...but nope...all the sudden Jauron turns into the riverboat gambler. Marshawn Lynch had been gashing the Jets defense all day...just giving him the effing ball, run the clock out!  But instead, on 2nd & 5, deep in their own end, Jauron calls for a playaction pass, at the last second...JP, playing with that "bee in his helmet", gets some pressure, and immediately decides he is going to run it...fumble scooped up by the Jets, and returned for the game wining TD.  I was so, so pissed.  And the camera goes to Jauron, motionless, with that deer in the headlights look...so angry.  It is the most angry I have ever beeen after a Bills loss. That night, I decided, "screw this, I am bailing on the last few games of the season, life is too short for this garbage".  Of course, I was back at the bar the rest of the season...but that was the first time I ever gave any serious consideration, for just a minute, of giving up on the Bills.  It still pisses me off, 12 years later!

 

 

 

Good point about those Dick Jauron years. 

 

7-9

7-9

7-9

6-10

 

Total mediocrity. 

 

Gailey follows him up and goes  4-12, 6-10, 6-10 but his teams seemed way more exciting and competitive. I guess the difference between a decent offensive team that sucks and a decent defensive team that sucks. 

[MJS]

1 hour ago, KD in CA said:

I think most have come to realize he was a good leader of men, but a mediocre game day coach who succeeded by having superior talent in 90% of the games.   From a coaching standpoint, he was totally over matched in those SBs as he went up against one all-time great after another.

All those hall of fame players we had give him a ton of praise and credit him for helping them become the players they were.

 

I have to trust the players on this one. Those guys loved him and respected him a ton.

[BillsfaninSB]

Edmunds will be more important to the defense then White this year. 

[JGMcD2]

2 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

Because I think he was at best average at drafting, not just in Buffalo, but Indy too. The best 2 players he ever drafted were consensus #1 overalls in Bruce and Manning. Give him credit for Getting Andre Reed in the 4th round. He built those teams in a pre-salarycap era largely by paying Jim Kelly the highest salary ever for an NFL player.

Essentially, I think a lot of Polian's success was luck of getting franchise QB's and elite talent at the top of drafts. And the fact that neither the Bills nor the Colts won anywhere near as much as they should have is the result of his weaknesses. He had a ton of mid round picks that never even ended up playing a game. Granted, there was a lot more rounds in those days , but if he didn't need the picks he should have done something more valuable with them.

Edit: I think the fact that he didn't build the Bills on a salary cap in Buffalo, and that he was unable to build a balanced team in Indy under a cap is further indictment.

I think it's a pretty hot take to say that Peyton Manning was the consensus #1 overall pick. There was a ton of debate between Manning and Leaf.

 

In hindsight Manning was a surefire pick there, but at the time it was not clear cut at all. There were numerous people who believed that Leaf would be an absolute stud.

[KD in CA]

Just now, MJS said:

All those hall of fame players we had give him a ton of praise and credit him for helping them become the players they were.

 

I have to trust the players on this one. Those guys loved him and respected him a ton.

 

He certainly deserves credit for holding that team with so many egos together so long.

[Rico]

36 minutes ago, Buftex said:

Past: Drew Bledsoe's first 8 games of the 2002 season may have been the best stretch of games by any Bills QB in my Bills lifetime..which starts around 1972. 

 

Past part 2: Dick Jauron was the worst Bills coach in my Bills lifetime...in my 48 years of living and dying with this team, the Dick Jauron era was the most joyless time of all. They may not have been the worst Bills teams ever, but they were just misrable to watch. I will never forget that Sunday late in the season, playing he Jets in the Meadowlands...Bills, after a mini good-start to the season lost something like six of eight games..the season, like so many others was circling the drain...but the Bills have a 27-24 win in the final minutes....JP Losman is getting his final shot at proving himself as a starting QB on a lousy team. All they gotta do is ice the game...run the clock out...we can all be a little happy for a week...but nope...all the sudden Jauron turns into the riverboat gambler. Marshawn Lynch had been gashing the Jets defense all day...just giving him the effing ball, run the clock out!  But instead, on 2nd & 5, deep in their own end, Jauron calls for a playaction pass, at the last second...JP, playing with that "bee in his helmet", gets some pressure, and immediately decides he is going to run it...fumble scooped up by the Jets, and returned for the game wining TD.  I was so, so pissed.  And the camera goes to Jauron, motionless, with that deer in the headlights look...so angry.  It is the most angry I have ever beeen after a Bills loss. That night, I decided, "screw this, I am bailing on the last few games of the season, life is too short for this garbage".  Of course, I was back at the bar the rest of the season...but that was the first time I ever gave any serious consideration, for just a minute, of giving up on the Bills.  It still pisses me off, 12 years later!

 

Present: I got a feeling, Buffalo's going to the Super Bowl...

Worst part about that play is that it was obvious what was going to happen as soon as JP started moving. I remember screaming at the TV as that Jet closed in on him, "NOOOOOOOO!!!!"

[MJS]

25 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

Good point about those Dick Jauron years. 

 

7-9

7-9

7-9

6-10

 

Total mediocrity. 

 

Gailey follows him up and goes  4-12, 6-10, 6-10 but his teams seemed way more exciting and competitive. I guess the difference between a decent offensive team that sucks and a decent defensive team that sucks. 

Yeah, it was like the only decent offensive football of the drought years. That's why people think of Fitzpatrick and Gailey with somewhat fond memories. But they were terrible at winning football games.

[Bills fan since 87]

54 minutes ago, Golden Goat said:

Eric Moulds = overrated

 

I'll see that an raise.  Eric Moulds is the best receiver in Bills history (sorry Andre).  Put him with Kelly and wow.

[Bills fan since 87]

47 minutes ago, Buftex said:

Past: Drew Bledsoe's first 8 games of the 2002 season may have been the best stretch of games by any Bills QB in my Bills lifetime..which starts around 1972. 

 

Past part 2: Dick Jauron was the worst Bills coach in my Bills lifetime...in my 48 years of living and dying with this team, the Dick Jauron era was the most joyless time of all. They may not have been the worst Bills teams ever, but they were just misrable to watch. I will never forget that Sunday late in the season, playing he Jets in the Meadowlands...Bills, after a mini good-start to the season lost something like six of eight games..the season, like so many others was circling the drain...but the Bills have a 27-24 win in the final minutes....JP Losman is getting his final shot at proving himself as a starting QB on a lousy team. All they gotta do is ice the game...run the clock out...we can all be a little happy for a week...but nope...all the sudden Jauron turns into the riverboat gambler. Marshawn Lynch had been gashing the Jets defense all day...just giving him the effing ball, run the clock out!  But instead, on 2nd & 5, deep in their own end, Jauron calls for a playaction pass, at the last second...JP, playing with that "bee in his helmet", gets some pressure, and immediately decides he is going to run it...fumble scooped up by the Jets, and returned for the game wining TD.  I was so, so pissed.  And the camera goes to Jauron, motionless, with that deer in the headlights look...so angry.  It is the most angry I have ever beeen after a Bills loss. That night, I decided, "screw this, I am bailing on the last few games of the season, life is too short for this garbage".  Of course, I was back at the bar the rest of the season...but that was the first time I ever gave any serious consideration, for just a minute, of giving up on the Bills.  It still pisses me off, 12 years later!

 

Present: I got a feeling, Buffalo's going to the Super Bowl...

 

 

Ugh...THAT game...was still living in the ADKs and bartending.  Bunch of annoying Jets (and Giants) fans were at the bar, snowmobilers.  Bills sucked but AT LEAST I'd have some bragging rights that day.  Went to the kitchen to grab someone's wings or whatever are heard an explosion of cheers and laughter.  I wanted to walk right out the kitchen door and drive home.

Edited August 21, 2020 by Bills fan since 87

[Gordon Lightfoot]

1.Trading away Daryl Lamonica

2.Chuck Knox leaving

[Buftex]

14 minutes ago, Rico said:

Worst part about that play is that it was obvious what was going to happen as soon as JP started moving. I remember screaming at the TV as that Jet closed in on him, "NOOOOOOOO!!!!"

You have two ***** plays to get 5 yards and you win the game...just give the ball to Mashawn...not quite the Peter Carroll Super Bowl brain fart, but my blood still boils when I think about it.

Edited August 21, 2020 by Buftex

[Buftex]

52 minutes ago, KD in CA said:

 

Here's the draft record...every player who played 100+ games plus a few other notables.   He didn't hit it out of the park every year, but overall a lot of big names on that list, especially in the early years.

 

Pretty impressive list in my opinion. But even beyond the draft, I think people forget (or maybe too young to remember) how poorly run the franchise was between Chuck Knox leaving, and Polian getting the GM job. Ralph was still "carpetbagger" Ralph at that point. Polian had to work around that, found good people at cut rate, and knew personel as well as anyone at that time.   He did a very respectable job with the Panthers too. Having Manning when he was in Indy may have covered up for some poor rosters.

[SirAndrew]

Chan Gailey wasn’t an offensive genius. We often blame those years on Gailey’s inability to manage both sides of the ball, but the reality is different. His offense was a gimmick that only worked a few weeks every season, then we’d have long streaks of struggling to score points. People mostly remember the exciting Gailey games, but forget the dreadful 24-10 type loses those seasons were also filled with. 

[BullBuchanan]

34 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

I think it's a pretty hot take to say that Peyton Manning was the consensus #1 overall pick. There was a ton of debate between Manning and Leaf.

 

In hindsight Manning was a surefire pick there, but at the time it was not clear cut at all. There were numerous people who believed that Leaf would be an absolute stud.

"The weight of opinion in the NFL now says that Tennessee quarterback Peyton Manning is the clear choice, ahead of Leaf, as the No. 1 pick in the draft, which will be held on April 18 and 19. In the wake of a meteoric Rose Bowl season that sent his pro stock soaring, Leaf became a sort of joint entry with Manning. Discussion of one player rarely passed without mention of the other. There was little doubt that Manning and Leaf would be the top two draft picks; the issue was which would be selected by the Indianapolis Colts, who will choose first, and which would end up with the San Diego Chargers, who have the second selection.

But in the view of a six-man blue-ribbon panel that analyzed game tapes of the players for SI, Leaf doesn't rank as high as Manning. Each expert was asked: If you had to pick one of these players, whom would you take? With different degrees of conviction, each said Manning. Three said they would be shocked if the Colts didn't select him."
 

https://vault.si.com/vault/1998/04/13/the-chairmen-peyton-manning-and-ryan-leaf-are-the-class-of-the-nfl-draft-but-experts-say-one-of-them-stands-head-and-shoulder-pads-above-the-other

Edited August 21, 2020 by BullBuchanan

[Mango]

10 minutes ago, MJS said:

Yeah, it was like the only decent offensive football of the drought years. That's why people think of Fitzpatrick and Gailey with somewhat fond memories. But they were terrible at winning football games.

Nobody wants to admit it because it’s more fun to crack jokes, but Buddy Nix and Chan Gailey were integral first steps to righting the nearly 20 years of wrong with this franchise. It took longer than we wanted, but the team had come off of a run at GM that included the corpse of Marv Levy,  Russ Brandon, and Tom Donohoe running our drafts. George Wilson was our starting SS and the dude was a WR like 12 weeks before the season. Think about that. That’s the depth chart Gailey and Nix inherited. Your best Safety could also be your slot receiver. There is literally nobody else on the roster...on a franchise in the NFL. Let’s not forget before that Tom D. Traded a first for Rob Johnson. Then had 20% of the cap tied up in Flutie and Johnson in 2000. Later cut RJ and took a larger dead cap hit on top of that. Our top 5 players are like 50% of the cap at that point. Then he traded ANOTHER First round pick for Drew Bledsoe. But wait, we aren’t done yet, in 2004 we traded a 1st and 2nd round pick to trade back into the first for JP Losman. What a total disaster. 
 

Gailey and Fitz are remembered better than Jauron because we had real football players, real football coaches, and a real football exec in the FO (granted with flaws). What those guys inherited in hindsight was not a professional football franchise. It reads almost like “Major League”. 

[BruceVilanch]

28 minutes ago, Gordon Lightfoot said:

1.Trading away Daryl Lamonica

2.Chuck Knox leaving

1. Buffalo is in New York

2. Josh Allen looks good in shorts

[eball]

4 hours ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

 

Past- Doug a Marone wasn’t a bad coach. Just because he took advantage of an opt out, doesn’t erase the fact that he was part of this teams turn around. From 14’ on, the Bills went from a joke, to respectable. He was a part of that initial step. McDermott is better, no question...but people act like Marone was terrible just because they were pissed at him for leaving

I think Doug’s record since he quit in Buffalo has shown that while he might not be a “bad” coach, he’s also not a particularly good one. He’s middling on his best day, with a 39-46 career record including playoffs. He brings discipline to a team but doesn’t appear to be very adept at game planning for either the offensive or defensive side of the ball. He’s had conflicts with star players and his overly conservative mindset kept his team from going to a Super Bowl. He did win a couple of playoff games so there’s that, but he also took that Jaguars team coming off an AFC Championship game appearance and drove them into the ground (11-21 since).

 

Edited August 21, 2020 by eball