Russia Was Not a Democratic Hoax

[Doc]

20 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

No, it's because Trump was openly--and secretly--seeking and accepting help from Putin. He wants to have the power Putin has. You guys can lie and lie and lie about it, but Trump was a Putin boy 

 

Well even if you believe that, the "help" was proven not to help him at all.  If anything, Comey did more to kill Hilly's chances than anything Putin could have done when it came to changing the outcome of the election.  But you helped Putin by tearing the country apart over it so congrats.

[Tiberius]

3 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Well even if you believe that, the "help" was proven not to help him at all.  If anything, Comey did more to kill Hilly's chances than anything Putin could have done when it came to changing the outcome of the election.  But you helped Putin by tearing the country apart over it so congrats.

So you now admit that he did help him and Trump accepted it. Now you are just trying to minimize it.  

 

If trying to keep the murderous Putin out of our politics is "tearing nation apart," or whatever, then maybe we need to tear Putin and his puppets out of the nation. So be it. 

 

Reminds me of the Ukraine debate, Putin is the aggressor to everyone accept hard core MAGA people. Wonder why that is? 

[Wacka]

Show the proof Tibsy. Like you have infinite times before- no proof. Time to change the subject.

[Tiberius]

1 minute ago, Wacka said:

Show the proof Tibsy. Like you have infinite times before- no proof. Time to change the subject.

Why, so you can ask for it again in five minutes? 

 

You really don't know any of the evidence? Talk about burying your head in the sand 

[Doc]

11 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

So you now admit that he did help him and Trump accepted it. Now you are just trying to minimize it.  

 

If trying to keep the murderous Putin out of our politics is "tearing nation apart," or whatever, then maybe we need to tear Putin and his puppets out of the nation. So be it. 

 

Reminds me of the Ukraine debate, Putin is the aggressor to everyone accept hard core MAGA people. Wonder why that is? 

 

Nope. He jokingly asked them in public to look for Hilly's emails.  You know, something the MSM should have but was unwilling to do. 

 

And typically when you collude with someone, you don't ask them to do something for everyone to hear/shine a spotlight on it.    

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

39 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

No, it's because Trump was openly--and secretly--seeking and accepting help from Putin. He wants to have the power Putin has. You guys can lie and lie and lie about it, but Trump was a Putin boy 

You actually believe Trump was not accepting help from Russia? 

 

I find that hard to believe with all the evidence. You just ignore it? Or better yet, just keep asking, "what evidence?" 

 

Just keep asking like you've never seen the evidence before. Trump is a traitor 

I think the Dems spread election misinformation, engaged in election denialism, and lied about evidence tying Trump to the Russians.
 

 I think they considered  the historical perspective of McCarthyism, how

well it worked and for how long, and weighed that against the damage claiming our electoral system was hijacked and illegitimate, and knew once people dove all in, they could change the narrative and folks like you would buy it. 
 

I think even they are probably amazed at how well it worked, so

much so that I’m a 4 year period, they could get you to go from “the election was stolen” to “My God people actually believe elections can be stolen??!”.  
 

These are the facts Tibs.  If you still think the 2016 election was stolen by Trump/Russia, you’re why this sort of thing happens.  

[Tiberius]

3 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

I think the Dems spread election misinformation, engaged in election denialism, and lied about evidence tying Trump to the Russians.
 

 I think they considered  the historical perspective of McCarthyism, how

well it worked and for how long, and weighed that against the damage claiming our electoral system was hijacked and illegitimate, and knew once people dove all in, they could change the narrative and folks like you would buy it. 
 

I think even they are probably amazed at how well it worked, so

much so that I’m a 4 year period, they could get you to go from “the election was stolen” to “My God people actually believe elections can be stolen??!”.  
 

These are the facts Tibs.  If you still think the 2016 election was stolen by Trump/Russia, you’re why this sort of thing happens.  

Putin and Trump conspire against our election system and you blame Democrats. 

 

MAGA in its essence. Never their fault! 

[Doc]

23 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Putin and Trump conspire against our election system and you blame Democrats. 

 

MAGA in its essence. Never their fault! 

 

Our elections are the most secure ever.

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

1 hour ago, Tiberius said:

Putin and Trump conspire against our election system and you blame Democrats. 

 

MAGA in its essence. Never their fault! 

The simplicity of your explanation yields clues to why you're easily manipulated.   

 

You, as an extreme leftist, are as much a part of the problem as those on the extreme right, Tibsy, probably more given you bought into the collusion narrative long before Trump even considered stop the steal. It worked though, so we can all expect that will continue to be a concept used in mainstream American politics.  

 

I don't know if it's possible at your stage of life to unwind all the BS you've willingly consumed in your life, but you should try.  

 

 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

Our elections are the most secure ever.

 

Yes, the leadership pushes forward knowing that people like Tibsy won't pick up on the shape shifting nature of their politics.  The reality is they don't.  

 

When you think about it, it wasn't even 4 years between "the election was hijacked by Russians!" and "OMG our elections are unimpeachable!".  The following statement from major players in the democrat party set the stage nicely for a second straight round of democrat election denialism should Trump have won.  This statement was made a mere 11 months before 2020 election.   It's a mainstream concept and we can expect much, much more it moving forward.

 

People like Tibsy lack the self-reflection gene. 

 

https://www.warren.senate.gov/oversight/letters/warren-klobuchar-wyden-and-pocan-investigate-vulnerabilities-and-shortcomings-of-election-technology-industry-with-ties-to-private-equity

Three private equity-owned election technology vendors serve 90% of eligible voters but fail to sufficiently innovate, improve, and protect deteriorating voting systems; Election security experts have noted for years that our nation's voting systems and election infrastructure are under serious threat

[Tiberius]

21 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

The simplicity of your explanation yields clues to why you're easily manipulated.   

 

You, as an extreme leftist, are as much a part of the problem as those on the extreme right, Tibsy, probably more given you bought into the collusion narrative long before Trump even considered stop the steal. It worked though, so we can all expect that will continue to be a concept used in mainstream American politics.  

 

I don't know if it's possible at your stage of life to unwind all the BS you've willingly consumed in your life, but you should try.  

 

 

No one is manipulated but you. Trump sought and accepted Putin's help in our elections. 

 

You just can't accept that obvious truth. You can accept a truth, so ya, you need to start shoveling the BS

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

16 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

No one is manipulated but you. Trump sought and accepted Putin's help in our elections. 

 

You just can't accept that obvious truth. You can accept a truth, so ya, you need to start shoveling the BS

That's it boyo, dig in deep and pull that mud over your eyes.  Putin. Trump. and Mueller, too.  Mueller was in on it for sure.   This is you: 🙈🙉🙊

[Tiberius]

2 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

That's it boyo, dig in deep and pull that mud over your eyes.  Putin. Trump. and Mueller, too.  Mueller was in on it for sure.   This is you: 🙈🙉🙊

Yup, Mueller exposed the Russians hacking the DNC among other things. 

 

You are a truth denier. 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

21 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Yup, Mueller exposed the Russians hacking the DNC among other things. 

 

You are a truth denier. 

This was your chance--right here, and you came up small in a big moment. 

 

While I distrust both Mueller and his motives, let's ee this through.....Mueller exposed Russia....and?   Here, I'll help you help yourself:

https://www.americanbar.org/news/abanews/aba-news-archives/2019/03/mueller-concludes-investigation/

 

The special counsel found that Russia did interfere with the election, but “did not find that the Trump campaign, or anyone associated with it, conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in these efforts, despite multiple efforts from Russian-affiliated individuals to assist the Trump campaign.”

 

That the Russians attempted to influence American culture and impact the outcome of the elections is not in dispute.  If you've been paying attention over the past few decades---and I'm not certain you have or can--that's nothing new.  It's not groundbreaking intel, and if you're naive enough to be drawn in by the fact that nations pry/attempt to shape outcomes in other nations, that's on you (again).    

 

You're being confronted with facts, and when the facts don't match your narratives, you resort to spouting gibberish.  

 

Be better. 

 

 

[All_Pro_Bills]

11 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

This was your chance--right here, and you came up small in a big moment. 

 

While I distrust both Mueller and his motives, let's ee this through.....Mueller exposed Russia....and?   Here, I'll help you help yourself:

https://www.americanbar.org/news/abanews/aba-news-archives/2019/03/mueller-concludes-investigation/

 

The special counsel found that Russia did interfere with the election, but “did not find that the Trump campaign, or anyone associated with it, conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in these efforts, despite multiple efforts from Russian-affiliated individuals to assist the Trump campaign.”

 

That the Russians attempted to influence American culture and impact the outcome of the elections is not in dispute.  If you've been paying attention over the past few decades---and I'm not certain you have or can--that's nothing new.  It's not groundbreaking intel, and if you're naive enough to be drawn in by the fact that nations pry/attempt to shape outcomes in other nations, that's on you (again).    

 

You're being confronted with facts, and when the facts don't match your narratives, you resort to spouting gibberish.  

 

Be better. 

 

 

You're absolutely correct, right or wrong Russia does attempt to influence American culture.  Through official channels or unofficial ones.  But what many seem to ignore, either intentionally or unintentionally, is this is not a unique action of a specific country doing this while every other country, including our own, sits idly and out of every else's business.

 

What a lot of posters seem to believe is we can mess with anybody we want, at anytime, and in any way we please, but you can't mess with us.  Because anyone sticking their noses in our business would be guilty of interference.  What we're doing is "helping you".  That doesn't seem fair, does it? 

[Tiberius]

15 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

This was your chance--right here, and you came up small in a big moment. 

 

While I distrust both Mueller and his motives, let's ee this through.....Mueller exposed Russia....and?   Here, I'll help you help yourself:

https://www.americanbar.org/news/abanews/aba-news-archives/2019/03/mueller-concludes-investigation/

 

The special counsel found that Russia did interfere with the election, but “did not find that the Trump campaign, or anyone associated with it, conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in these efforts, despite multiple efforts from Russian-affiliated individuals to assist the Trump campaign.”

 

That the Russians attempted to influence American culture and impact the outcome of the elections is not in dispute.  If you've been paying attention over the past few decades---and I'm not certain you have or can--that's nothing new.  It's not groundbreaking intel, and if you're naive enough to be drawn in by the fact that nations pry/attempt to shape outcomes in other nations, that's on you (again).    

 

You're being confronted with facts, and when the facts don't match your narratives, you resort to spouting gibberish.  

 

Be better. 

 

 

You mean Trump did not leave any evidence the Special Council could use? Color me shocked. 

 

I suppose Paul Manafort--who refused to talk about it--just happened to end up on Trump's campaign after working for Putin. Just a coincidence! 

 

I suppose Trump and Putin deciding to build a hotel in Moscow right before the election was a coincidence! 

 

I suppose Trump just felt like saying "I love Wikkileaks" just after Wikkileaks got the stolen DNC emails

 

I suppose Trump really thought it was a good idea to get Russia back in the G-7, just because 

 

And Trump really thought Putin was making a genius move by invading a country, murdering thousands, kidnapping thousands more and displacing millions. 

 

All just coincidence! 

 

You need to be better. What exactly are you selling your soul for here? You are defending one of the worst Americans ever 

7 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

You're absolutely correct, right or wrong Russia does attempt to influence American culture.  Through official channels or unofficial ones.  But what many seem to ignore, either intentionally or unintentionally, is this is not a unique action of a specific country doing this while every other country, including our own, sits idly and out of every else's business.

 

What a lot of posters seem to believe is we can mess with anybody we want, at anytime, and in any way we please, but you can't mess with us.  Because anyone sticking their noses in our business would be guilty of interference.  What we're doing is "helping you".  That doesn't seem fair, does it? 

Nope, this was the most open and extensive efforts by a very horrible foreign actor to weigh in on an American election, and the worst thing is, Trump welcomed it 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

7 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

You're absolutely correct, right or wrong Russia does attempt to influence American culture.  Through official channels or unofficial ones.  But what many seem to ignore, either intentionally or unintentionally, is this is not a unique action of a specific country doing this while every other country, including our own, sits idly and out of every else's business.

 

What a lot of posters seem to believe is we can mess with anybody we want, at anytime, and in any way we please, but you can't mess with us.  Because anyone sticking their noses in our business would be guilty of interference.  What we're doing is "helping you".  That doesn't seem fair, does it? 

Let’s drill down on that though—as we see @Tiberius has created a whole separate narrative on what Mueller said and did.  It’s a figment of his imagination, but it suits his point of view. 
 

It’s not that they are ignorant to the facts as you laid them out, it’s that in furtherance of their political leanings, they convince themselves that it’s ok because everyone does it. 
 

 

[Tiberius]

4 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

Let’s drill down on that though—as we see @Tiberius has created a whole separate narrative on what Mueller said and did.  It’s a figment of his imagination, but it suits his point of view. 
 

It’s not that they are ignorant to the facts as you laid them out, it’s that in furtherance of their political leanings, they convince themselves that it’s ok because everyone does it. 
 

 

You are the one in complete denial 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

3 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

You mean Trump did not leave any evidence the Special Council could use? Color me shocked. 

 

I suppose Paul Manafort--who refused to talk about it--just happened to end up on Trump's campaign after working for Putin. Just a coincidence! 

 

I suppose Trump and Putin deciding to build a hotel in Moscow right before the election was a coincidence! 

 

I suppose Trump just felt like saying "I love Wikkileaks" just after Wikkileaks got the stolen DNC emails

 

I suppose Trump really thought it was a good idea to get Russia back in the G-7, just because 

 

And Trump really thought Putin was making a genius move by invading a country, murdering thousands, kidnapping thousands more and displacing millions. 

 

All just coincidence! 

 

You need to be better. What exactly are you selling your soul for here? You are defending one of the worst Americans ever 

Nope, this was the most open and extensive efforts by a very horrible foreign actor to weigh in on an American election, and the worst thing is, Trump welcomed it 

Good Lord, you have every right to crown yourself King of Crazy Conspiracy Mountain.  

Here’s what you should suppose:  Suppose you read Mueller’s report as it relates to collusion and conspiring again, and this time, read it for comprehension.  It is….what it is. 
 

The goal was to run an investigation into non-existent “crimes” and get Team Trump on obstruction.  That is to say, telling the American people that defending yourself against bogus charges is the real crime.  
 

 

[Tiberius]

1 minute ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

Good Lord, you have every right to crown yourself King of Crazy Conspiracy Mountain.  

 

 

 

Wow, you are already resorting to gaslighting? Must be losing, lol. 

 

I'll take the high road from here on out because I have the facts on my side