Why is this considered a "Make or Break, No Excuses" season for Josh?

[Mark Vader]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

 

I have a very tough time getting on board with the bold.

 

For so many years we've watched QBs who are scared to go down field. Who throw for 6 yards on 3rd and 8. Who make 1 read and dump. And it has been horrendous.

 

I understand they played in a different era, but I think of "slingers" like Favre and Kelly.  Favre had plenty of years under 60% (lifetime avg 62%). Kelly had more years under 60% (7) than over 60% (4). Those guys were always looking downfield. Always looking to make a play. IMO, checking down on 3rd and long is giving up on the drive. Might as well just punt on 3rd down if that's the case.

 

I'll happily sacrifice Josh's completion% stat if it means he is trying to make plays, trying to move the chains, and trying to make things happen.

 

I think the bad drops by his receivers hurt us more than Josh being unwilling to check down.

Let me be more specific.

 

I'm not saying that Allen should be looking for the check down all the time, nor am I saying that they should look for that on 3rd & long.

 

Rather that if there's a moment where it's 2nd & 20, and everyone is covered, but Singletary is in the flat with all the defenders downfield, toss it to him and see if he can get you 10-15 yards. Not a bad option.

 

I agree with you on Josh attempting to move the chains. If he sees a moment where he can run and get the first down, do it! I just prefer that he runs as a last resort. The thought of him getting injured on a running play is scary.

 

Yes, the drops by the receivers were a big problem last year. That has to change.

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

I get that is another partisan Josh Allen thread; but when it comes to offensive performance, why do the RBs continuously get a pass?  I mean they have produced 8 total rushing TDs in two freaking years.  2018: McCoy (3), Ivory (1) and 2019: (Singletary (2), Gore (2).   That's pathetic, especially when your QB has 17 TDs in the same time span; a ratio of 2:1.   In 2018, Josh was even the leading rusher on the team, and in 2019 was only 200+ yds shy of Singletary.  Bash the kid all you want, but as of right now, he's the biggest threat in the ground game for the Bills.  Over the past two years the Bills RBs have averaged .25 TDs per game, meaning 1 rushing TD by a RB for every four games.  If the Bills RBs combined could get even close to 16 total TDs or 1 per game, then the ppg would be much improved.  

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

21 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

Watson is no worse than the 3rd best QB in the conference. Putting him in the same group as the others is silly.

Fair point as I think about this...  Most of the other top guys coming to mind are NFC right now... 

 

the afc is Mahommes, then Lamar and Watson in some order...  not even sure how I’d round the top 5 out. 

[John from Riverside]

Unlike others I DONT think that Josh is on any kind of hot seat.....

 

WHat I would like to see

 

- Better accuracy on deep throws

- Stop fumbling the ball

 

I think if just THOSE two things would equal much better overall play from Josh Allen

[ColoradoBills]

On 8/17/2020 at 3:54 PM, DCofNC said:

No, this is the make or break because you have to choose that 5th year option or not before the start of next season.  That 5th year option will be guaranteeing him $30+M for year 5.  So do it or don’t do it, but this is the year you have to see big steps in his overall game so you can choose to commit to him or look to move on after year 4.

 

Sorry DC about my reply to your post.  I was wrong as others have pointed out about the 5th year option.

Did not catch the new CBA rules on this.

 

I've edited my original post.

[BullBuchanan]

3 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Fair point as I think about this...  Most of the other top guys coming to mind are NFC right now... 

 

the afc is Mahommes, then Lamar and Watson in some order...  not even sure how I’d round the top 5 out. 

Ben, Rivers. From that point on it doesn't really matter and is subject to drastically change.

[DCofNC]

2 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Sorry DC about my reply to your post.  I was wrong as others have pointed out about the 5th year option.

Did not catch the new CBA rules on this.

 

I've edited my original post.

No worries, I’m generally just typing what’s in my head, mistakes get made all the time.  Go Bills!

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

3 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

Ben, Rivers. From that point on it doesn't really matter and is subject to drastically change.

Those were the first two I thought of, Ben then I remembered it’s not 2012... I’m not sure what they are any more. Eli had more left than I think Phil does. Ben could bounce back... but a big bounce would be needed. 

Edited August 19, 2020 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[rayray808]

not a make or break year... but let's be serious as Bills fans:

 

if he does bad - people will find reasons why it's not him

if he does good - people will find reasons why it's not him

[JoPoy88]

10 pages in and I’m sorry if this has already been asked but - where does the OP get the idea that the other QBs in Allen’s class aren’t under pressure to improve or in a “make or break” situation (which is BS anyways, none of them are.) Did the OP scour the message boards of CLE, NYJ and BAL? Guys listening to sports radio in those markets and just KNOWS only Allen is the one feeling the pressure ? bull

 

see this is why I hate these threads by these posters - they’re preemptive excuse threads. Certain groups of Allen lovers just feel the need to preemptively hedge expectations and push blame, just so we know and understand hey - if anything goes wrong this season it ain’t joshy’s fault. Allen doesn’t need that. Stop babying the guy. He’s doing fine. He’s here for this year and the next two calm the frak down.

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

1 hour ago, JoPoy88 said:

10 pages in and I’m sorry if this has already been asked but - where does the OP get the idea that the other QBs in Allen’s class aren’t under pressure to improve or in a “make or break” situation (which is BS anyways, none of them are.) Did the OP scour the message boards of CLE, NYJ and BAL? Guys listening to sports radio in those markets and just KNOWS only Allen is the one feeling the pressure ? bull

 

see this is why I hate these threads by these posters - they’re preemptive excuse threads. Certain groups of Allen lovers just feel the need to preemptively hedge expectations and push blame, just so we know and understand hey - if anything goes wrong this season it ain’t joshy’s fault. Allen doesn’t need that. Stop babying the guy. He’s doing fine. He’s here for this year and the next two calm the frak down.

 

You got a psych degree? because you nailed it. I've also seen the "maybe the OC is the problem" as a canary in the coal mine with other QBs and now in advance. This thread is just a preemptive "Don't be mean if it doesn't go great!

" 

[billsbackto81]

1 hour ago, JoPoy88 said:

10 pages in and I’m sorry if this has already been asked but - where does the OP get the idea that the other QBs in Allen’s class aren’t under pressure to improve or in a “make or break” situation (which is BS anyways, none of them are.) Did the OP scour the message boards of CLE, NYJ and BAL? Guys listening to sports radio in those markets and just KNOWS only Allen is the one feeling the pressure ? bull

 

see this is why I hate these threads by these posters - they’re preemptive excuse threads. Certain groups of Allen lovers just feel the need to preemptively hedge expectations and push blame, just so we know and understand hey - if anything goes wrong this season it ain’t joshy’s fault. Allen doesn’t need that. Stop babying the guy. He’s doing fine. He’s here for this year and the next two calm the frak down.

https://therichreport.com/2020/03/24/no-more-excuses-for-the-buffalo-bills-and-josh-allen/

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicholasmcgee/2020/08/14/josh-allen-has-no-excuse-for-failure-after-dion-dawkins-extension/#16d708371ae8

 

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2020/07/31/bleacher-report-josh-allen-buffalo-bills-concern/

 

https://www.nfl.com/videos/pff-three-2019-playoff-teams-unlikely-to-return-in-2020

 

LOL! 10 pages in and I'm surprised it took this long for some poster to bash an opinion. There's plenty more material out there if you care to search. No QB from this class gets the criticism Allen gets. Mayfield, the #1 overall gets a pass because you don't give up on a #1 regardless of the superior talent around him, even if he did regress in 2019.  Darnold gets a pass because he's on a dumpster fire of a team with atrocious coaching. Jackson gets a pass because well, he's earned it. And just to be clear I never said that the other QB's are not feeling pressure to perform, just that it doesn't get written and commented on like the criticism thrown at Allen. And yes, I do peruse other message boards to read, not comment. Darnold is still considered vastly superior to Allen at JetsNation to which they blame coaching and lack of talent. At the Dawg Pound they blame coaching and the dreaded sophomore slump.  I'm not making excuses for him, if he deserves the blame for not progressing than that's on him. Just tired of the same old narrative we've been subjected to since we drafted him. He's improved every year and has accomplished more than his contemporaries outside of Jackson.

[JoPoy88]

5 minutes ago, billsbackto81 said:

https://therichreport.com/2020/03/24/no-more-excuses-for-the-buffalo-bills-and-josh-allen/

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicholasmcgee/2020/08/14/josh-allen-has-no-excuse-for-failure-after-dion-dawkins-extension/#16d708371ae8

 

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2020/07/31/bleacher-report-josh-allen-buffalo-bills-concern/

 

https://www.nfl.com/videos/pff-three-2019-playoff-teams-unlikely-to-return-in-2020

 

LOL! 10 pages in and I'm surprised it took this long for some poster to bash an opinion. There's plenty more material out there if you care to search. No QB from this class gets the criticism Allen gets. Mayfield, the #1 overall gets a pass because you don't give up on a #1 regardless of the superior talent around him, even if he did regress in 2019.  Darnold gets a pass because he's on a dumpster fire of a team with atrocious coaching. Jackson gets a pass because well, he's earned it. And just to be clear I never said that the other QB's are not feeling pressure to perform, just that it doesn't get written and commented on like the criticism thrown at Allen. And yes, I do peruse other message boards to read, not comment. Darnold is still considered vastly superior to Allen at JetsNation to which they blame coaching and lack of talent. At the Dawg Pound they blame coaching and the dreaded sophomore slump.  I'm not making excuses for him, if he deserves the blame for not progressing than that's on him. Just tired of the same old narrative we've been subjected to since we drafted him. He's improved every year and has accomplished more than his contemporaries outside of Jackson.

ok psycho. Besides posting a tweet and then completely going off the rails, I’ll ask again: who are these people giving the other 2018 QBs “passes” as you handed them out. And further, besides the small cadre of posters here who will never like him, who is hating on Josh Allen so hard you almost pop a vessel defending him against me, who has been pleasantly surprised by the kid and have no problems with him.

 

you ended up proving my point. My only advice is root for the city and the team, not the players.

[JoPoy88]

56 minutes ago, Chemical said:

 

You got a psych degree? because you nailed it. I've also seen the "maybe the OC is the problem" as a canary in the coal mine with other QBs and now in advance. This thread is just a preemptive "Don't be mean if it doesn't go great!

" 

yup you nailed all of it. Including the inevitable “well this just won’t do, gotta get rid of Daboll obviously” angle that will inevitably spew out on this board if things don’t go so well.

[GunnerBill]

31 minutes ago, billsbackto81 said:

 At the Dawg Pound they blame coaching and the dreaded sophomore slump.  I'm not making excuses for him, if he deserves the blame for not progressing than that's on him. Just tired of the same old narrative we've been subjected to since we drafted him. He's improved every year and has accomplished more than his contemporaries outside of Jackson.

 

Actually what I see from Cleveland fans is excuses for Baker LAST year. Nobody is saying coaching or the sophomore slump is an excuse in 2020. Bake is in almost exactly the same position as Josh. Both have had excuses to an extent in year 1 and 2. Both have played well at times but haven't found the necessary level of consistency. Both have very few excuses looking forward in 2020. The Browns have fixed their HC spot and have addressed their big weakness on the offensive line. The Bills have finally acquired a true #1 receiver, and have addressed the running back spot while returning most of their starters. Darnold is in a different place. You might not like it, but it is the truth. This year is not as critical for Sam because even if he plays lights out that Jets roster is at best 8-8. The Browns and the Bills have the rosters to contend now. Not in another year's time, not by the end of the QB rookie deals..... NOW. The pressure is on Josh and Baker equally for that reason. "Make or break" is a bit of hyperbole, sure. But this season is critical for both of them and in the same way that a lot of Bills fans you see think there are no excuses for Allen the Browns fans by and large feel the same about Baker. If either plateaus or regresses in 2020 their franchise will have to start to consider that they may not be the guy.

Edited August 19, 2020 by GunnerBill

[billsbackto81]

8 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

ok psycho. Besides posting a tweet and then completely going off the rails, I’ll ask again: who are these people giving the other 2018 QBs “passes” as you handed them out. And further, besides the small cadre of posters here who will never like him, who is hating on Josh Allen so hard you almost pop a vessel defending him against me, who has been pleasantly surprised by the kid and have no problems with him.

 

you ended up proving my point. My only advice is root for the city and the team, not the players.

If you're looking for actual narrative and articles you won't find any, that's why I consider it a pass. If it's not talked about then its either accepted or overlooked. Maybe it's wrong to assume they're getting a "pass" as I'm sure they've received their fair share of negative criticism in their circles. But not to the extent Josh gets which reaches national exposure.

And dude, what's with the name calling? Oh well, at least it took over 200 posts before someone resorted to it. ?

[billsbackto81]

9 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Actually what I see from Cleveland fans is excuses for Baker LAST year. Nobody is saying coaching or the sophomore slump is an excuse in 2020. Bake is in almost exactly the same position as Josh. Both have had excuses to an extent in year 1 and 2. Both have played well at times but haven't found the necessary level of consistency. Both have very few excuses looking forward in 2020. The Browns have fixed their HC spot and have addressed their big weakness on the offensive line. The Bills have finally acquired a true #1 receiver, and have addressed the running back spot while returning most of their starters. Darnold is in a different place. You might not like it, but it is the truth. This year is not as critical for Sam because even if he plays lights out that Jets roster is at best 8-8. The Browns and the Bills have the rosters to contend now. Not in another year's time, not by the end of the QB rookie deals..... NOW. The pressure is on Josh and Baker equally for that reason. "Make or break" is a bit of hyperbole, sure. But this season is critical for both of them and in the same way that a lot of Bills fans you see think there are no excuses for Allen the Browns fans by and large feel the same about Baker. If either plateaus or regresses in 2020 their franchise will have to start to consider that they may not be the guy.

 

True, but up until this upcoming season Baker has had significantly more talent to work with and has woefully underperformed. Josh's 1st season was a throw away, roster purging, cap cleansing type of season. Basically a "lets see what we got to work with" type season. Last year we got a taste of what he can do with actual playmakers. And now like you said we get to see if these guys are truly franchise material.

Edited August 19, 2020 by billsbackto81

[oldmanfan]

26 minutes ago, billsbackto81 said:

 

True, but up until this upcoming season Baker has had significantly more talent to work with and has woefully underperformed. Josh's second season was a throw away, roster purging, cap cleansing type of season. Basically a "lets see what we got to work with" type season. Last year we got a taste of what he can do with actual playmakers. And now like you said we get to see if these guys are truly franchise material.

Josh has played two seasons.  You imply he’s played three.

Edited August 19, 2020 by oldmanfan

[GunnerBill]

30 minutes ago, billsbackto81 said:

 

True, but up until this upcoming season Baker has had significantly more talent to work with and has woefully underperformed. Josh's second season was a throw away, roster purging, cap cleansing type of season. Basically a "lets see what we got to work with" type season. Last year we got a taste of what he can do with actual playmakers. And now like you said we get to see if these guys are truly franchise material.

 

Mayfield didn't woefully under perform in 2018 - he broke to rookie record for touchdown passes! If you want to say he underperformed in 2019, that is certainly true. But just as there were excuses for Josh in 2018 there were excuses for Baker in 2019 - and legit ones. That is why I say both are in a similar position going into 2020. The excuses are pretty much gone. Both teams are set. It isn't make or break but it is a critical season for both guys.

[billsbackto81]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

Mayfield didn't woefully under perform in 2018 - he broke to rookie record for touchdown passes! If you want to say he underperformed in 2019, that is certainly true. But just as there were excuses for Josh in 2018 there were excuses for Baker in 2019 - and legit ones. That is why I say both are in a similar position going into 2020. The excuses are pretty much gone. Both teams are set. It isn't make or break but it is a critical season for both guys.

Sorry Gunner, he regressed last year which is what I meant.