Why is this considered a "Make or Break, No Excuses" season for Josh?

[C.Biscuit97]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

Ridiculous, isn't it?

Yeah dude.  Clearly I expected the guy who is a 56% passer and has never been above 60% on any level of football to be a 69% passer all of a sudden!!! My massive hands hit a 9 instead of 0!!! I wish I hate petite fingers like some of you.

[C.Biscuit97]

2 hours ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

LOL; did you just raise the bar to 69%!   You just straight up hate the dude point blank!  

 

How simple are some of you.  If you question a guy as a franchise qb, you “hate” him.  Some of you should watch other teams.  They routinely pass for over 200 yards!!! The complete more than 60% of their passes!!! They score more than 19 points a game!!! It’s wild stuff.

 

i hate bad qb play.  Allen is a really good dude. So was EJ, Trent, and JP kinda.  It’s moronic to say someone hates a player because they question how good they are. If we had good qb play last year, we are at worst 12-4. At worst.  I want more points and less excuses.  
 

and with that, I will wish Allen well and won’t be critical of him until the real games. I truly hope he develops into a real qb who isn’t carried by his defense and can win games with his arm.  

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

2 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

How simple are some of you.  If you question a guy as a franchise qb, you “hate” him.  Some of you should watch other teams.  They routinely pass for over 200 yards!!! The complete more than 60% of their passes!!! They score more than 19 points a game!!! It’s wild stuff.

 

i hate bad qb play.  Allen is a really good dude. So was EJ, Trent, and JP kinda.  It’s moronic to say someone hates a player because they question how good they are. If we had good qb play last year, we are at worst 12-4. At worst.  I want more points and less excuses.  
 

and with that, I will wish Allen well and won’t be critical of him until the real games. I truly hope he develops into a real qb who isn’t carried by his defense and can win games with his arm.  

I’ve asked you this several times, but you always never answer.  You bit-** about the 19 pts per game yet never put any onus on the PATHETIC output of our RBs.  In two years (32 games),  8 rushing TDs combined by our RBs.  Josh has 17, that’s 2:1 by our QB!  You want more pts, maybe start there!

[MJS]

3 hours ago, Mango said:

I would focus on this. If our offense can’t be really good (much better than really bad in 2019) by basically giving your 2 year QB another offseason (third year), he probably isn’t a very good QB. At the very least, I think he needs to be able to take, what I would call an average supporting in the NFL (2019) and pull them out of the basement. If another player can help improve those chances great. But he’s still got to do it. 

 

Or Daboll isn't that good. He's never shown that he can field a top 10 offense in the past, if I'm not mistaken. He hasn't had much to work with, but we can't say he's a good coordinator just because he hasn't had talent to work with. He has a lot to prove this year too.

2 hours ago, Augie said:

 

We can’t look at them like they are just chess pieces. We are not just adding a rook to the board (replacing a less capable rook).  They are people. Many of them are developing young players. If Knox and Ford make big jumps we look like a different team. Josh is expected to continue to improve to some degree. I’m sure he’ll be better, and I hope we get to see it for a full season. 

 

It’s not about adding a single player. It’s about developing a team. I love McD and our front office. 

That's the hope. Yeah, we think those guys will get better, but sometimes players don't. And sometimes they get worse. Everyone thought Baker Mayfield was going to have a monster season and he ended up looking pretty bad.

 

But yeah, I have faith in McDermott and Beane. I have faith in what they are building. We just haven't seen the offense perform consistently at even an average level yet. I sure hope this is the season they put it together.

[MJS]

56 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

How simple are some of you.  If you question a guy as a franchise qb, you “hate” him.  Some of you should watch other teams.  They routinely pass for over 200 yards!!! The complete more than 60% of their passes!!! They score more than 19 points a game!!! It’s wild stuff.

 

i hate bad qb play.  Allen is a really good dude. So was EJ, Trent, and JP kinda.  It’s moronic to say someone hates a player because they question how good they are. If we had good qb play last year, we are at worst 12-4. At worst.  I want more points and less excuses.  
 

and with that, I will wish Allen well and won’t be critical of him until the real games. I truly hope he develops into a real qb who isn’t carried by his defense and can win games with his arm.  

You are just not a fun person to have around. You can argue these same points without being such a constant prick, you know.

[Thurman#1]

11 hours ago, billsbackto81 said:

Why is this considered a "Make or Break, No Excuses" season for Josh?

 

What say you? Thoughts? In your opinion is it truly make or break for Josh this year?

 

 

I don't think it is. Or rather, only by the folks who feel important when they put that label on people.

 

It's not make or break.

 

But it is an important season. And if we don't see significant improvement it will make it less likely that he turns into a franchise guy. Less likely, but certainly not impossible, so it's not make or break.

[Thurman#1]

5 hours ago, jeremy2020 said:

 

If Allen can't get the offense out of the basement this year then it's pretty unlikely he's going to...History isn't kind to QBs who dwell in the bottom of the rankings for 3 straight years. 

 

 

 

I would disagree. Throw in the word "some," and it gets defensible. History isn't kind to some QBs who ...  OK, fair enough. You could even raise that up to "most."

 

But history's been pretty kind to Eli Manning and Drew Brees, for two. And there are more. Some guys take a bit longer than average to develop. Others are just bad because they're not good. 

[Thurman#1]

5 hours ago, Chemical said:

 

Exactly. This is why I didn't want Allen. Even if he reaches his ceiling how many years will it take? 

 

This thread is a good example of why it's a bad idea to take project QB. The OP wants to give him more time, ok but we are wasting a pretty good defense while we wait for the offense to catch up. 

 

Then once he is good(hopefully) he is paid over 30 million dollars a year making it hard to keep talent around him. Will the excuses be back then?

 

If we had Mahomes, Watson, or Jackson (in the right system) last year we are super bowl contenders with our defense. 

 

 

No, this thread is by no means showing why it's a bad idea to take a project QB. By no means. By that logic it would be OK to have taken Rosen (full disclosure: I liked all four of the top four, and Rosen more than Allen, but I did think Allen deserved to be taken early and might be a good pick.) because after all, Rosen was not a project QB.

 

It's a bad idea to take a project QB ... who doesn't work out. Or for that matter, a pro-ready QB who doesn't work out. Anyone, really, who doesn't work out, that's who you don't want. 

 

Anyone who works out, anyone, is a really really good pick. Among successful QBs is it better to get one who develops faster? Sure. But that's much less important than simply getting a good one..

[oldmanfan]

He improved from year one to year two.  There is no reason to think there won’t be continued improvement from year two to year three.  The idea that it’s make or break is silly.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

With a SB quality team, some guy had 63, 62 and 60 comp % in his first 3 seasons

In 2019 that guy he had completed 60.8% 

 

The other "not worthy" guy had 58.8 comp % in 2019.

In year 1, he had Zay Jones and Robert Foster @ WR.  He also had 2 slouch performers in Kelvin Benjamin and Charles Clay

In year 2, he had Brown and Jones and the #s went up, but neither were identified as a true #1 WR.

Year 3 he has the tools.  

 

Expect the comp % to go up.  

 

 

[GunnerBill]

13 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

Watson is no worse than the 3rd best QB in the conference. Putting him in the same group as the others is silly.

 

Obviously. This board likes to pretend that is not the case though. If Josh's first two years had been close to Watson's the same people would be crowning him. It is what it is.

 

As for the others - this isn't make or break for Darnold because the Jets are no darn good. While I agree it isn't really "make or break" for Josh and Baker either, in the sense that they are not going to be cut or benched if they don't improve (so long obviously as they don't significantly regress) it is a much bigger year for both because the Bills and Browns have rosters that are ready to compete now. Both have playoff talent. Both should at least make the post-season and both should be looking to make runs once they get there. If either doesn't then the chance are that Quarterback play is a big part of the reason why.

[HOUSE]

NATE WILL BE BACK...

 

Edited August 18, 2020 by HOUSE

[H2o]

I wouldn't say it's absolutely make or break, but you look for growth and maturation from your QB. He needs to be less careless with the ball, running and throwing (at times). He needs to trust his reads and throw his man open. He needs to continue to put air under those deep passes like he was towards the end of the season last year because that's when he was connecting. Sometimes he still gets happy feet in the pocket and looks for a lane to take off when he actually has a man open. You look for improvement in these areas. He's going into year 3 in the same offense, year 3 as a starter. You look for the game to slow down for him even more. I fully expect for this to happen so I'm not worried about Josh whatsoever. He will put up between 3,800-4,200 yards passing, 30-35 passing TD's, a 62% or better completion rate, 500-600 yards rushing, and 5-8 rushing TD's. It's going to be stellar year for the young man. 

[eball]

OP, here’s your not-so-simple answer.

 

Those who panned the Allen pick and believed he would be a bust will answer “yes” because if Allen doesn’t light it up they’ll feel vindicated.

 

Those who have recognized how raw Allen was coming into the league will answer “sort of” because we all need to see him take the proverbial “next step” but we also don’t think he has to suddenly become a superstar in order to justify his continued progression with the team.

 

Allen will always be polarizing because of the wide disparity in how he was scouted/evaluated — the analytics crowd can’t comprehend that perhaps their analysis was flawed (or incomplete).

[Bill from NYC]

I thought since day 1, and still think that Allen is a mega talented player. I know what a great runner he is, but I wish that he would curtail the running, at least to some degree.

The last thing I want to see is JA get hurt. If he stays healthy, I predict a long, highly successful career for this kid.

 

[BarleyNY]

10 hours ago, SCBills said:

I checked out their forum and they are spinning so hard on Perriman, Mims, Crowder and Herndon that even I thought for a second, dang... those dudes might actually be good.  
 

I actually do like Crowder and think Herndon has upside.   I also like the idea of tall, fast WR’s - until I remembered Perriman has all of 4 good games in his career and Mims is a rookie. 
 

That OL is what will make or break Sam this year.  He’s always been a guy who makes bad decisions under pressure and that doesn’t seem to be changing through his first two years.  
 

 

Agreed.  Darnold’s biggest issue coming into the league was turnovers.  The Jest really haven’t done a lot to help him there.  That OL is shaky.  McGovern and Van Roten should be fine, but Becton is really it after that.  I don’t think he’s a sure thing by any stretch, but even if he works out they’re still fielding a LG and a RT that are back up level IMO.  As soon as one of them gets tossed into the legs of one of the good three and takes him out for the season that line is going to fall apart.  And Darnold is going to go with them.

[GunnerBill]

6 hours ago, MJS said:

Or Daboll isn't that good. He's never shown that he can field a top 10 offense in the past, if I'm not mistaken. He hasn't had much to work with, but we can't say he's a good coordinator just because he hasn't had talent to work with. He has a lot to prove this year too.

 

 

Daboll does have a lot to prove.... but so does Josh. If the offense continues to be bottom half in 2020 Daboll will be fired. If it then continues to be bottom half under a new coordinator in 2021 the Bills have to draft another Quarterback. Personally, I think it will be top half in 2020 and this won't be an issue but if it isn't I am very sceptical that a coordinator change is suddenly going to unlock something in Josh. It might. But that's a long shot IMO. If Josh plateaus or regresses this season (again, I am not expecting him to) then I think it is likely he isn't the guy.

[BigBuff423]

To me, this isn't a "make or break" season for Josh Allen, but it is the year when we should all expect significant strides toward demonstrating he CAN become the long-term Franchise QB that leaves no doubt for any person for the next 10 years. He doesn't have to have an MVP season, although he has the talent for it, and he doesn't have to win a Super Bowl, but he DOES have to leave all doubters at the door by showing his productivity and efficiency in leading a capable Offense. 

 

Josh's accuracy was the biggest detraction coming into the NFL and his Rookie year showed that to be a wise criticism, albeit over-blown in my mind given the lack of receivers. His second year was markedly improved and still led the league in drops, meaning THIS year is when we expect all of the pieces to come together and for his talent, hard work, charisma, and dogged pursuit of excellence to show out on the field. 

 

To me, it would take a year where Josh Allen reverts to his Rookie season or the first three games of last year for people to start to question if he's got "it". But more than hoping for "good enough" I think this is when we should expect he puts it all together and displays his truest QB self and demonstrates he can and will be the Buffalo Bills' QB for the next decade without question. 

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, BigBuff423 said:

 

To me, it would take a year where Josh Allen reverts to his Rookie season or the first three games of last year for people to start to question if he's got "it". But more than hoping for "good enough" I think this is when we should expect he puts it all together and displays his truest QB self and demonstrates he can and will be the Buffalo Bills' QB for the next decade without question. 

 

See I think this is mad because to me the first 3 games of last season were three of his best as a Bill.

[BigBuff423]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

See I think this is mad because to me the first 3 games of last season were three of his best as a Bill.

 

To each is own, but 3 INT in the Pats game will take many people off the grid with that argument. I'm sure you see the redeeming qualities but it felt like he turned a corner after that game. I said it in a thread back then and I'll say it here: I think he had a Brady moment. Going back to when Nate Clement took Brady's head off running down the sidelines, Brady was a very different player immediately after that Bills game and the numbers supported his renewed focus and improved decision making. It was as if the hit knocked some sense into him and made him realize the importance of quick and precise passes more than what a coach could say or do. 

 

Josh Allen seemed to make drastic improvements right after that game and getting through the concussion protocol. His INTs went way down, his passing improved overall and his decision making - until the Houston game which IMO was more about situational maturity - got much better. However, obviously that's just my perspective and I'm sure someone who gives as much thought and consideration to the game of football and the Bills specifically has a well-articulated point to make.