Lieutenant Aldo Raine Posted August 18, 2020 Posted August 18, 2020 3 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Without doubt, if he can’t hit 69% of his passes, he definitely needs to go. LOL; did you just raise the bar to 69%! You just straight up hate the dude point blank!
Mango Posted August 18, 2020 Posted August 18, 2020 3 hours ago, MJS said: The Bills are pretty similar to last year except for Diggs. The oline is still below average, in my opinion. Now, maybe Diggs makes the huge difference that we all hope he does. That's totally possible and maybe even likely. But people are saying the Bills now have loads of talent around Allen on offense and really what they mean is we now have Diggs. That's the only difference. I expect that our offense will still have growing pains. And I'm not convinced Daboll is that good of an OC yet, anyways. The jury is still out on him. Can our offense be really good with basically only one different player? I guess we'll see. I would focus on this. If our offense can’t be really good (much better than really bad in 2019) by basically giving your 2 year QB another offseason (third year), he probably isn’t a very good QB. At the very least, I think he needs to be able to take, what I would call an average supporting in the NFL (2019) and pull them out of the basement. If another player can help improve those chances great. But he’s still got to do it.
BullBuchanan Posted August 18, 2020 Posted August 18, 2020 (edited) If he isn't able to take a positive step forward, he'll join a long line of Bills QBs over the last 25 years. This is a tough business and every year there's a new crop of potential first ballot Hall of Famers. If Josh isn't the guy, they shouldn't pass on the next Mahomes a 2nd time. Edited August 18, 2020 by BullBuchanan 1
ganesh Posted August 18, 2020 Posted August 18, 2020 4 hours ago, MJS said: The Bills are pretty similar to last year except for Diggs. The oline is still below average, in my opinion. Now, maybe Diggs makes the huge difference that we all hope he does. That's totally possible and maybe even likely. But people are saying the Bills now have loads of talent around Allen on offense and really what they mean is we now have Diggs. That's the only difference. I expect that our offense will still have growing pains. And I'm not convinced Daboll is that good of an OC yet, anyways. The jury is still out on him. Can our offense be really good with basically only one different player? I guess we'll see. Umm. If you compare the rosters 2019 RB: Gore, SIngletary 2020 RB: Singletary, Moss Moss is younger, faster and more powerful than Gore at this stage of his career 2019 WR: Beasley, Brown and McKenzie 2020 WR: Diggs, Brown, Beasley, McKenzie, Gabriel - Gabriel college production far outweigh the rest of the crew 2019 and 2020 OL - Return their starters. But they have a full year of together. We have also added solid backups who can start. 2019 and 2020 TE - Last year we saw very little of Kroft due to injury. This year Knox and Sweeney enter their 2nd year thirsting for more opportunities. Just returning 10 of the 11 starters gives them continuity
BobbyC81 Posted August 18, 2020 Posted August 18, 2020 4 hours ago, billsbackto81 said: Baker Mayfield has accomplished nothing in the same amount of time with significantly more talent. Darnold has accomplished less than nothing in the same amount of time. Jackson has an MVP to his name but also has (2) first rd. playoff exits with an uber talented roster. Watson also has (2) first rd. playoff exits, (should be 3?) and choked away a 24 point lead on the way to a 51-31 drubbing. Nobody is talking about these guys in a make or break scenario. Shoot, Watson will be one of the highest paid QBs pretty soon. I expect Josh to make a significant step forward with the talent surrounding him but in no way do I expect him to be shown the door if it doesn't happen. He's already accomplished more than the (2) "Pro ready" QBs drafted before him. Seems like everyone is so hell bent on seeing him fail to protect the consensus predraft opinion that he would never be an accurate and caliber franchise QB. Yet nobody is defecating on Lamar when many thought he was a RB/WR gadget player. What say you? Thoughts? In your opinion is it truly make or break for Josh this year? Also, don’t forget that some “experts” were high on Josh Rosen and even some on this board wanted the Bills to draft him. He looks like a bust at this point. 1
BullBuchanan Posted August 18, 2020 Posted August 18, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, ColeB said: Also, don’t forget that some “experts” were high on Josh Rosen and even some on this board wanted the Bills to draft him. He looks like a bust at this point. In fairness to the kid, he was drafted into an awful situation and they quit on him after a single year with a dumpster fire of a team. Doing well there would've taken a herculean effort, and I can't ever recall something like that happening to a first round QB after his first season. The situation in which he found himself in Miami was no better, and arguably worse given the presence of Fitzpatrick. He'll probably need to hang around the league for quite a while now if he's ever going to get another real shot. Edited August 18, 2020 by BullBuchanan 1
JOE IN HAMPTON ROADS Posted August 18, 2020 Posted August 18, 2020 15 minutes ago, ColeB said: Also, don’t forget that some “experts” were high on Josh Rosen and even some on this board wanted the Bills to draft him. He looks like a bust at this point. Almost everyone on this board wanted Rosen over Allen. I predict Josh has a breakout year, makes numerous long connections with Diggs and Bills win first playoff game in decades. 2/3 of the remaining anti-Joshers will finally raise the white flag and succumb to his awesomeness. I also predict that the remaining 1/3 of anti-Joshers will continue to prefer being consistently wrong to accepting reality. 2
Doc Posted August 18, 2020 Posted August 18, 2020 1 hour ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said: LOL; did you just raise the bar to 69%! You just straight up hate the dude point blank! Ridiculous, isn't it? 1
Ralonzo Posted August 18, 2020 Posted August 18, 2020 (edited) 52 minutes ago, ColeB said: Also, don’t forget that some “experts” were high on Josh Rosen and even some on this board wanted the Bills to draft him. He looks like a bust at this point. I cop to that for the reason that one was "the most pro ready" and the other was "the biggest project." I have since come to the conclusion to let Beane do the drafting. I don't see this year as top-12 or cut bait since he does not seem close to done developing... i'd guess the median case for him is top-12 by the end of contract 1, but still with upside. Edited August 18, 2020 by Ralonzo
Augie Posted August 18, 2020 Posted August 18, 2020 5 hours ago, MJS said: The Bills are pretty similar to last year except for Diggs. The oline is still below average, in my opinion. Now, maybe Diggs makes the huge difference that we all hope he does. That's totally possible and maybe even likely. But people are saying the Bills now have loads of talent around Allen on offense and really what they mean is we now have Diggs. That's the only difference. I expect that our offense will still have growing pains. And I'm not convinced Daboll is that good of an OC yet, anyways. The jury is still out on him. Can our offense be really good with basically only one different player? I guess we'll see. We can’t look at them like they are just chess pieces. We are not just adding a rook to the board (replacing a less capable rook). They are people. Many of them are developing young players. If Knox and Ford make big jumps we look like a different team. Josh is expected to continue to improve to some degree. I’m sure he’ll be better, and I hope we get to see it for a full season. It’s not about adding a single player. It’s about developing a team. I love McD and our front office.
KD in CA Posted August 18, 2020 Posted August 18, 2020 Can someone explain to me what "no excuses" means? If on the first play of the season, Diggs and Brown run into each other on a crossing pattern and are both knocked out for the season, does that mean Josh sucks when the passing game falls apart? 1
Malazan Posted August 18, 2020 Posted August 18, 2020 (edited) Diggs is an important piece and I don't think it's easy to quantify how a true #1 can have a cascading effect on the rest of the offense. It's a make or break year for Allen because: - This is about as good of supporting cast on offense as you can expect (to be clear, not saying they're great or amazing, but year in / year out you can't expect much better) so if he can't do it with these guys...then he's not going to be able to do it most years - QBs who dwell in the bottom of the rankings for 3 straight years generally don't go on to become 'good' QBs - Continuity on offense - A clear and fixable problem (deep ball) that could change the entire offense (defenses have to back up and open up more allowing easier reads) - Diggs, even if he only meets lower expectations here, is a game changer. His abilities line up in this offense and Allen's problem areas. He pushes two very good receivers down the depth chart into roles they should be able to flourish in as well. - If he can't read defenses or continues to struggle under pressure that's not likely en 'experience' issue any more If Allen can't get the offense out of the basement this year then it's pretty unlikely he's going to...History isn't kind to QBs who dwell in the bottom of the rankings for 3 straight years. I say all of this as a huge Allen fan. He's a gamer and I love his mentality, but he's got to show he can take an offense to the middle of the pack in the NFL. 10 minutes ago, KD in CA said: Can someone explain to me what "no excuses" means? If on the first play of the season, Diggs and Brown run into each other on a crossing pattern and are both knocked out for the season, does that mean Josh sucks when the passing game falls apart? Yes, if that happened then that would be an extremely tough situation to overcome, but regardless of supporting cast..a QB needs to perform at some point and QBs who have had poor stats and offenses for 3 years rarely 'turn it around' even with a better supporting cast. Edited August 18, 2020 by jeremy2020 1
Rock-A-Bye Beasley Posted August 18, 2020 Posted August 18, 2020 30 minutes ago, Ralonzo said: I cop to that for the reason that one was "the most pro ready" and the other was "the biggest project." I have since come to the conclusion to let Beane do the drafting. I don't see this year as top-12 or cut bait since he does not seem close to done developing... i'd guess the median case for him is top-12 by the end of contract 1, but still with upside. Exactly. This is why I didn't want Allen. Even if he reaches his ceiling how many years will it take? This thread is a good example of why it's a bad idea to take project QB. The OP wants to give him more time, ok but we are wasting a pretty good defense while we wait for the offense to catch up. Then once he is good(hopefully) he is paid over 30 million dollars a year making it hard to keep talent around him. Will the excuses be back then? If we had Mahomes, Watson, or Jackson (in the right system) last year we are super bowl contenders with our defense. 2 1
Lieutenant Aldo Raine Posted August 18, 2020 Posted August 18, 2020 2 minutes ago, Chemical said: Exactly. This is why I didn't want Allen. Even if he reaches his ceiling how many years will it take? This thread is a good example of why it's a bad idea to take project QB. The OP wants to give him more time, ok but we are wasting a pretty good defense while we wait for the offense to catch up. Then once he is good(hopefully) he is paid over 30 million dollars a year making it hard to keep talent around him. Will the excuses be back then? If we had Mahomes, Watson, or Jackson (in the right system) last year we are super bowl contenders with our defense. If only the Bills had taken the most pro ready QB at the time like you wanted. IF, IF, IF...
Rock-A-Bye Beasley Posted August 18, 2020 Posted August 18, 2020 Just now, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said: If only the Bills had taken the most pro ready QB at the time like you wanted. IF, IF, IF... well we would already know either way at least right? Or would you be making excuses for Rosen too? I can hear it now "He had to come in for Peterman unexpectedly as a rookie and last year was only his second year but he seemed to be improving. He still only 23 years old and UCLA seemed to be playing a pro style offense but he wasn't making pre-snap reads. He deserves at least two more years to grow." 2
Malazan Posted August 18, 2020 Posted August 18, 2020 4 minutes ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said: If only the Bills had taken the most pro ready QB at the time like you wanted. IF, IF, IF... If you pointed out all the times he's wrong...you won't have time to do anything else. 1
Rock-A-Bye Beasley Posted August 18, 2020 Posted August 18, 2020 Just now, jeremy2020 said: If you pointed out all the times he's wrong...you won't have time to do anything else. When else? 1 minute ago, jeremy2020 said: If you pointed out all the times he's wrong...you won't have time to do anything else. Neither of you has said anything about quarterback drafting/development philosophy. Just a couple personal attacks. You're bringing less than nothing to the table.
Malazan Posted August 18, 2020 Posted August 18, 2020 2 minutes ago, Chemical said: Neither of you has said anything about quarterback drafting/development philosophy. Just a couple personal attacks. You're bringing less than nothing to the table. It's not a personal attack to point out that you're wrong...
Rock-A-Bye Beasley Posted August 18, 2020 Posted August 18, 2020 (edited) 1 minute ago, jeremy2020 said: It's not a personal attack to point out that you're wrong... about what? Why do I have to force specifics out of you? You should be countering with facts and opinion about football. Not this weak BS Edited August 18, 2020 by Chemical
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