C.Biscuit97 Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 3 minutes ago, Doc said: Who knows with you, CB. You keep harping on his completion percentage and then tout someone like Newton who has had 2 seasons out of 9 above 60% (and his highest completion rate season saw him go 6-8). But if it was an honest mistake, I can accept that. Cam also set rookie passing records. If Allen had rookie passing records after being of the most dominant players in the history of college football in the SEC, trust me, I’d be his biggest fan and would fight people who doubt him (like some of you do with Cam). and I’m a tough grader but yeah, 69 is insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 1 hour ago, BarleyNY said: But he folded pretty badly after his fumble Absolutely not true. There were a couple of questionable decisions but also some amazing plays. He had receivers drop balls, go out of bounds, you name it. The narrative that Josh Allen somehow blew the playoff game is a false one. To borrow a phrase from Gunner, there was a brief moment during the game where Josh appeared to be "scrambled" but he also got out of it. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerJ Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 It's not about a comparison with other QBs. Some of them will deal with the same question. It's about the learning curve. It is expected that young QBs will have a steep learning curve their first couple of years in the league. There's just a lot to learn. Some QBs move more quickly than others. Josh Allen is entering his third season. For many, the learning curve starts to flatten out from here, but Josh Allen entered the league uber talented but needing to learn more than most . Most QBs will continue to make small incremental improvements for a couple more years, but by most accounts, Josh Allen still needs to make a pretty significant leap forward. If he does it, that makes him an exception to the rule. I'm hopeful he will, but I admit it's unusual. The problem is by year four significant improvement becomes a huge outlier to the normal pattern. Hence, if Josh Allen doesn't make the big leap he needs to make this season, the odds against him doing it at all grow prohibitively long. I think that makes this year fit the definition of a make or break year pretty well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 33 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Cam also set rookie passing records. If Allen had rookie passing records after being of the most dominant players in the history of college football in the SEC, trust me, I’d be his biggest fan and would fight people who doubt him (like some of you do with Cam). and I’m a tough grader but yeah, 69 is insane. His rookie records don't change the fact that he's been a sub-60% passer most of his career. As he and Josh have proven, you don't have to be even 60% to have success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 48 minutes ago, eball said: Absolutely not true. There were a couple of questionable decisions but also some amazing plays. He had receivers drop balls, go out of bounds, you name it. The narrative that Josh Allen somehow blew the playoff game is a false one. To borrow a phrase from Gunner, there was a brief moment during the game where Josh appeared to be "scrambled" but he also got out of it. Sorry, but it’s not a false narrative. If anything the false narrative is that the team let him down more than he let them down. The weakest link in the team was Allen from his fumble on. I have rewatched the game several times and it is what it is. Now I definitely agree that Josh did not blow every play and that he was not the only player that blew plays down the stretch (and that’s why I included the whole team in my post), but his overall play was terrible from that point on. He has even admitted as much. That it happened doesn’t mean that Allen won’t grow from it and it doesn’t mean that it’ll happen ever again. But I am not pretending that I saw something else. I’ll leave the Houston game discussion here except to reiterate that I’m excited to watch Allen grow and take the next step this season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 5 minutes ago, BarleyNY said: Sorry, but it’s not a false narrative. If anything the false narrative is that the team let him down more than he let them down. The weakest link in the team was Allen from his fumble on. I have rewatched the game several times and it is what it is. Now I definitely agree that Josh did not blow every play and that he was not the only player that blew plays down the stretch (and that’s why I included the whole team in my post), but his overall play was terrible from that point on. He has even admitted as much. That it happened doesn’t mean that Allen won’t grow from it and it doesn’t mean that it’ll happen ever again. But I am not pretending that I saw something else. I’ll leave the Houston game discussion here except to reiterate that I’m excited to watch Allen grow and take the next step this season. Eh, we'll just agree to disagree. Josh played great in OT -- the most clutch situation of all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextmanup Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 18 hours ago, billsbackto81 said: Baker Mayfield has accomplished nothing in the same amount of time with significantly more talent. Darnold has accomplished less than nothing in the same amount of time. Jackson has an MVP to his name but also has (2) first rd. playoff exits with an uber talented roster. Watson also has (2) first rd. playoff exits, (should be 3?) and choked away a 24 point lead on the way to a 51-31 drubbing. Nobody is talking about these guys in a make or break scenario. Shoot, Watson will be one of the highest paid QBs pretty soon. I expect Josh to make a significant step forward with the talent surrounding him but in no way do I expect him to be shown the door if it doesn't happen. He's already accomplished more than the (2) "Pro ready" QBs drafted before him. Seems like everyone is so hell bent on seeing him fail to protect the consensus predraft opinion that he would never be an accurate and caliber franchise QB. Yet nobody is defecating on Lamar when many thought he was a RB/WR gadget player. What say you? Thoughts? In your opinion is it truly make or break for Josh this year? Because he's been here long enough and we don't want to end up with another Ryan Tannehill experiment that lasts forever and goes nowhere. Do you want to protect Josh freaking Allen because he's "your guy" or do you want to see the Bills win meaningful post-season football games? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 4 minutes ago, BarleyNY said: Sorry, but it’s not a false narrative. If anything the false narrative is that the team let him down more than he let them down. The weakest link in the team was Allen from his fumble on. I have rewatched the game several times and it is what it is. Now I definitely agree that Josh did not blow every play and that he was not the only player that blew plays down the stretch (and that’s why I included the whole team in my post), but his overall play was terrible from that point on. He has even admitted as much. That it happened doesn’t mean that Allen won’t grow from it and it doesn’t mean that it’ll happen ever again. But I am not pretending that I saw something else. I’ll leave the Houston game discussion here except to reiterate that I’m excited to watch Allen grow and take the next step this season. While Josh was far from perfect, the team let him down plenty in that game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 2 hours ago, Mango said: Something to point out is, Trubisky and Allen had very similar performances for 2019. Mitch just came down from huge expectations after a very good 2018, Allen came up from a very bad year passing in 2018, so the narrative changes. If Allen flat-lines in 2020, he would actually have two years comparable to Mitch's 2019 season that is basically running him out of Chicago. Trubiskey doesn't have the dynamic rusher piece to fall back on either, and he generally regressed from 2018 to 2019 statistically. A couple of really good 2018 games propped him up, and their defense went from #1 in takeaways/#3 in yards in 2018 to #22 in takeaways/#8 in yards. Still a great defense, but takeaway numbers are always hard to maintain. I think you can best control giving the ball away, less so taking it away. They also significantly regressed on 3rd down in 2019, which probably has as much to do with their poor rushing attack as it does with Trubiskey. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Boo Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 10 minutes ago, Nextmanup said: Because he's been here long enough and we don't want to end up with another Ryan Tannehill experiment that lasts forever and goes nowhere. Exactly! Many here would be fine with a Tannehill or Dalton situation. I am not. As long as Josh shows progress, he should be safe, but the window is open now! He has to make the leap. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 47 minutes ago, Doc said: His rookie records don't change the fact that he's been a sub-60% passer most of his career. As he and Josh have proven, you don't have to be even 60% to have success. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/N/NewtCa00.htm https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/cam-newton-1.html https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AlleJo02.htm https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/josh-allen-7.html you really don’t see a big difference between their first 2 years, after much, much different college careers in much, much different college competition? This board questions guys like Newton and Jackson yet fully believe in Allen. I get the homer part where you want to believe but is there anything factual to based this on besides blind optimism (which is a good thing)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCofNC Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 17 hours ago, nucci said: Because they have to determine if he gets a contract extension where are you getting $30M from? Cost of the average of the top 10 salaries at the position for the year prior will be his salary. Guaranteed for injury immediately, in full as of first day of the league year. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 1 minute ago, DCofNC said: Cost of the average of the top 10 salaries at the position for the year prior will be his salary. Guaranteed for injury immediately, in full as of first day of the league year. ok, thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 13 minutes ago, Doc said: While Josh was far from perfect, the team let him down plenty in that game. I think I covered that more than once in this thread. 35 minutes ago, eball said: Eh, we'll just agree to disagree. Josh played great in OT -- the most clutch situation of all. Yup. Agree to disagree and move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBuchanan Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 21 minutes ago, Nextmanup said: Because he's been here long enough and we don't want to end up with another Ryan Tannehill experiment that lasts forever and goes nowhere. Do you want to protect Josh freaking Allen because he's "your guy" or do you want to see the Bills win meaningful post-season football games? 7 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said: Exactly! Many here would be fine with a Tannehill or Dalton situation. I am not. As long as Josh shows progress, he should be safe, but the window is open now! He has to make the leap. As someone that HATED Allen as a prospect, I thought he would be an utter dumpster fire with his big arm, sandlot style and lack of real success at any level. Happily, he hasn't been anything close to that. So far, he's been a big unknown, with some really solid play, but maybe only a couple really great games to his name (Vikings/Cowboys) - there may be more. A Tannehill/Dalton and maybe even Rivers situation can kill a franchise. Guys that aren't good enough to get you to the show, but are too good to easily dump are the types of players that keep teams mired in mediocrity. If Allen is ever going to be a great QB, he better show a lot of indicators of it this season, or else I expect them to look for those qualities in the 2021 draft class. I'd like to see Josh come in and drop 300 yards on a good team for the first time in a decade of Bills football. Hell, I'd like to see 400 yards and watch him embarrass a team that most folks had as a coinflip. More importantly I'd love to see him capable of throwing the team on his back when the rest of them start to fold. That, to me, is what makes someone a "franchise" QB. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 (edited) 26 minutes ago, DCofNC said: Cost of the average of the top 10 salaries at the position for the year prior will be his salary. Guaranteed for injury immediately, in full as of first day of the league year. Fifth year options are immediately fully guaranteed at time they are picked up. It’s a clause in the new CBA that changed the old rule. For the record, under that old rule they became fully guaranteed on the first day of the new league year. Edited August 18, 2020 by BarleyNY 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Vader Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 This is an important season for Josh Allen, not a "Make or Break" season. He needs to continue to improve and make better adjustments to his game. The combination of Singletary & Moss will hopefully decline the designed running plays for Allen. I believe that Allen should still be used as a part of the running game, but only in sweep plays or have him run as a last resort. Allen has a daredevil mentality, which makes me nervous, because he could get injured from it. It would be great to see him become better at shorter passes and use the check down more as an option. He doesn't have to become Captain Checkdown, but he could be Sergeant Checkdown. Fewer drops by receivers would be great too, and a more killer instinct from the coaches on offense as well. The addition of Stefon Diggs will be of great help, and I think that Zack Moss and Gabriel Davis will have a big impact on the team as well. Finally, I don't know where this narrative comes from that there are "No More Excuses for Josh Allen." Who is making all of these excuses for him, from a nationwide perspective? I sure as Hell don't see it. Some writers out there need better things to do. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 19 hours ago, KD in CA said: Of course not. He's on a 4 year contract with a 5th year team option. That means next year is his make or break year, no matter how much anyone wants to pretend otherwise. KD, that is exactly my opinion. It’s win now or bust fans which was the failing team philosophy for 17 years. He has a minimum of four years, and even with modest improvement this year and the next, will get a 5th year option. By the end of year 5 and he has back to back 65% completions and other parameters, we’ll know if the wallet opens and he gets a reasonable payday. This team administration, coaching and ownership has a much measured approach than many fans. My dad, god bless him is painful watching a game with as he wants half the team fined or fired by the end of every game. He was a top athlete a good portion of his life and in the HOF for baseball and softball in NYS, but he has no patience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 2 hours ago, eball said: Absolutely not true. There were a couple of questionable decisions but also some amazing plays. He had receivers drop balls, go out of bounds, you name it. The narrative that Josh Allen somehow blew the playoff game is a false one. To borrow a phrase from Gunner, there was a brief moment during the game where Josh appeared to be "scrambled" but he also got out of it. This was an important moment in his development. Football, all of sports actually, is about how you respond to adversity in the course of a game, season, etc. I guarantee that Allen’s ability to rebound doesn’t go unnoticed by his teammates and serves to help them overcome their own challenges. It’s the embodiment of leadership. Especially in a quarterback. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCofNC Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 22 minutes ago, BarleyNY said: Fifth year options are immediately fully guaranteed at time they are picked up. It’s a clause in the new CBA that changed the old rule. For the record, under that old rule they became fully guaranteed on the first day of the new league year. Ok, I missed that, so that’s even more reason he has to show this year. Nobody wants a to pay what it’s going to cost to keep him. IF he isn’t stepping up. Once the QB salaries get more screwed up with Maholmes, Watson, Dak etc adding GIGANTIC numbers into the top 10 and knocking the last of the 20M guys out, that number is going to be 30 M 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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