billsbackto81 Posted August 17, 2020 Posted August 17, 2020 Baker Mayfield has accomplished nothing in the same amount of time with significantly more talent. Darnold has accomplished less than nothing in the same amount of time. Jackson has an MVP to his name but also has (2) first rd. playoff exits with an uber talented roster. Watson also has (2) first rd. playoff exits, (should be 3?) and choked away a 24 point lead on the way to a 51-31 drubbing. Nobody is talking about these guys in a make or break scenario. Shoot, Watson will be one of the highest paid QBs pretty soon. I expect Josh to make a significant step forward with the talent surrounding him but in no way do I expect him to be shown the door if it doesn't happen. He's already accomplished more than the (2) "Pro ready" QBs drafted before him. Seems like everyone is so hell bent on seeing him fail to protect the consensus predraft opinion that he would never be an accurate and caliber franchise QB. Yet nobody is defecating on Lamar when many thought he was a RB/WR gadget player. What say you? Thoughts? In your opinion is it truly make or break for Josh this year? 1 4
thenorthremembers Posted August 17, 2020 Posted August 17, 2020 1 minute ago, billsbackto81 said: Baker Mayfield has accomplished nothing in the same amount of time with significantly more talent. Darnold has accomplished less than nothing in the same amount of time. Jackson has an MVP to his name but also has (2) first rd. playoff exits with an uber talented roster. Watson also has (2) first rd. playoff exits, (should be 3?) and choked away a 24 point lead on the way to a 51-31 drubbing. Nobody is talking about these guys in a make or break scenario. Shoot, Watson will be one of the highest paid QBs pretty soon. I expect Josh to make a significant step forward with the talent surrounding him but in no way do I expect him to be shown the door if it doesn't happen. He's already accomplished more than the (2) "Pro ready" QBs drafted before him. Seems like everyone is so hell bent on seeing him fail to protect the consensus predraft opinion that he would never be an accurate and caliber franchise QB. Yet nobody is defecating on Lamar when many thought he was a RB/WR gadget player. What say you? Thoughts? In your opinion is it truly make or break for Josh this year? I wouldnt say its make or break in terms of winning an MVP or a Super Bowl. The make or break is looking at other franchise quarterbacks through three years and seeing if he is on a good enough trajectory to garner a franchise qb contract. This is the type of the thing that wont be concluded in the court of public opinion, it will be made by people who are not prone to hyperbole and can make good informed decisions. 9 1
DrDawkinstein Posted August 17, 2020 Posted August 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, billsbackto81 said: Baker Mayfield has accomplished nothing in the same amount of time with significantly more talent. Darnold has accomplished less than nothing in the same amount of time. Jackson has an MVP to his name but also has (2) first rd. playoff exits with an uber talented roster. Watson also has (2) first rd. playoff exits, (should be 3?) and choked away a 24 point lead on the way to a 51-31 drubbing. Nobody is talking about these guys in a make or break scenario. Shoot, Watson will be one of the highest paid QBs pretty soon. Nobody on this board maybe. But plenty of fans for each team would say the same thing about Mayfield and Darnold. Although, the argument there is that they haven't been surrounded with the coaching or talent that Josh has (coaching Mayfield's case, coaching and talent in Darnold's). I don't know that anyone is expecting perfection from Josh this year, but he needs to show steady improvement. Not sure I'd throw him out if he looked exactly the same as last year. He just cant regress. That said, if he shows the same amount of improvement this year as he did last year, we have our franchise QB. 11 1 1
KD in CA Posted August 17, 2020 Posted August 17, 2020 Of course not. He's on a 4 year contract with a 5th year team option. That means next year is his make or break year, no matter how much anyone wants to pretend otherwise. 14 3
ProcessAccepted Posted August 17, 2020 Posted August 17, 2020 It is in the sense that following year 3 the ownership has to consider whether they are going to make the big investment or not.
billsbackto81 Posted August 17, 2020 Author Posted August 17, 2020 17 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Yes Straight to the point! I dig it! Don't agree, but I dig it. ?
Lieutenant Aldo Raine Posted August 17, 2020 Posted August 17, 2020 This thread will get @C.Biscuit97 a raging .... ..! 1 2
BullBuchanan Posted August 17, 2020 Posted August 17, 2020 (edited) Watson is no worse than the 3rd best QB in the conference. Putting him in the same group as the others is silly. Edited August 17, 2020 by BullBuchanan 5
MJS Posted August 17, 2020 Posted August 17, 2020 I mean, he is still under contract, so I would think that NEXT year is really the make or break year. The narrative is that Josh Allen won't have any excuses for poor play because he now has a number 1 receiver. Josh is safe (in that he'll get another year as a starter) if he plays the same, improves, or does slightly worse. If he falls off a cliff, maybe he isn't safe and the Bills are looking for another QB next year. But I expect he will improve, but perhaps not to the degree his detractors are demanding. 3
TBBills Posted August 17, 2020 Posted August 17, 2020 He has everything around him to let him succeed. The HC we already know will probably be allowed to choose another QB. Teams are always looking to upgrade at every position... good teams.
DCofNC Posted August 17, 2020 Posted August 17, 2020 14 minutes ago, KD in CA said: Of course not. He's on a 4 year contract with a 5th year team option. That means next year is his make or break year, no matter how much anyone wants to pretend otherwise. No, this is the make or break because you have to choose that 5th year option or not before the start of next season. That 5th year option will be guaranteeing him $30+M for year 5. So do it or don’t do it, but this is the year you have to see big steps in his overall game so you can choose to commit to him or look to move on after year 4. 5
MJS Posted August 17, 2020 Posted August 17, 2020 1 minute ago, TBBills said: He has everything around him to let him succeed. The HC we already know will probably be allowed to choose another QB. Teams are always looking to upgrade at every position... good teams. The Bills are pretty similar to last year except for Diggs. The oline is still below average, in my opinion. Now, maybe Diggs makes the huge difference that we all hope he does. That's totally possible and maybe even likely. But people are saying the Bills now have loads of talent around Allen on offense and really what they mean is we now have Diggs. That's the only difference. I expect that our offense will still have growing pains. And I'm not convinced Daboll is that good of an OC yet, anyways. The jury is still out on him. Can our offense be really good with basically only one different player? I guess we'll see. 4
Seasons1992 Posted August 17, 2020 Posted August 17, 2020 4 minutes ago, DCofNC said: No, this is the make or break because you have to choose that 5th year option or not before the start of next season. That 5th year option will be guaranteeing him $30+M for year 5. So do it or don’t do it, but this is the year you have to see big steps in his overall game so you can choose to commit to him or look to move on after year 4. "I don't like your tone......." 3
ColoradoBills Posted August 17, 2020 Posted August 17, 2020 (edited) On 8/17/2020 at 3:54 PM, DCofNC said: No, this is the make or break because you have to choose that 5th year option or not before the start of next season. That 5th year option will be guaranteeing him $30+M for year 5. So do it or don’t do it, but this is the year you have to see big steps in his overall game so you can choose to commit to him or look to move on after year 4. FWIW 5th year options are only guaranteed for injury but your point is well taken. EDIT: I was wrong. The new CBA has changed that to fully guaranteed upon option pickup. Edited August 18, 2020 by ColoradoBills 1
nucci Posted August 17, 2020 Posted August 17, 2020 36 minutes ago, billsbackto81 said: Baker Mayfield has accomplished nothing in the same amount of time with significantly more talent. Darnold has accomplished less than nothing in the same amount of time. Jackson has an MVP to his name but also has (2) first rd. playoff exits with an uber talented roster. Watson also has (2) first rd. playoff exits, (should be 3?) and choked away a 24 point lead on the way to a 51-31 drubbing. Nobody is talking about these guys in a make or break scenario. Shoot, Watson will be one of the highest paid QBs pretty soon. I expect Josh to make a significant step forward with the talent surrounding him but in no way do I expect him to be shown the door if it doesn't happen. He's already accomplished more than the (2) "Pro ready" QBs drafted before him. Seems like everyone is so hell bent on seeing him fail to protect the consensus predraft opinion that he would never be an accurate and caliber franchise QB. Yet nobody is defecating on Lamar when many thought he was a RB/WR gadget player. What say you? Thoughts? In your opinion is it truly make or break for Josh this year? Because they have to determine if he gets a contract extension 16 minutes ago, DCofNC said: No, this is the make or break because you have to choose that 5th year option or not before the start of next season. That 5th year option will be guaranteeing him $30+M for year 5. So do it or don’t do it, but this is the year you have to see big steps in his overall game so you can choose to commit to him or look to move on after year 4. where are you getting $30M from?
Mickey Posted August 17, 2020 Posted August 17, 2020 I wasn't aware that Josh needed to be excused in any way for his play last year. He took his team to the playoffs in only his second year and he did it with an offense that featured a supposedly has been Cole Beasley, Grandpa Gore and what had been a one dimensional target his whole career in John Brown. Beasley and Brown had great years, not despite Josh Allen but because of Josh Allen who consistently extended plays giving them both more time to get open. I won't recite the various weaknesses in the offense last year but I will say I don't think they were all solved by signing Diggs. We will see what Winters can do and whether Ford really is a RT or not soon enough. I expect Josh to be a lot like he was last year, definitely not the captain check down type so worshiped in these parts. He will take chances and with the game on the line, he will not be shy about running the ball when needed. I do expect he will improve on the deep ball and that Diggs will be a reliable receiver that gets open. I also expect his TE's to stop dropping the ball. I think Knox can be special if he improves his pass pro and cleans up the drops. All in all, I fully expect Josh to continue to make plays that win games and if his completion percentage ticks up a notch or two, fine, but I won't lose too much sleep if it doesn't because, like last year, we will be winning lots of games. 12
Ethan in Cleveland Posted August 17, 2020 Posted August 17, 2020 It's make or break because there is enough talent on this team for a deep playoff run. If the QB is the reason they fail, then they need to find an alternative. If he is adequate but they fail then they need to decide if adequate is good enough out of the QB position. If he is great and they still fail well then we all greatly overestimated the talent on the roster. 1 1
Jauronimo Posted August 17, 2020 Posted August 17, 2020 24 minutes ago, MJS said: The Bills are pretty similar to last year except for Diggs. The oline is still below average, in my opinion. Now, maybe Diggs makes the huge difference that we all hope he does. That's totally possible and maybe even likely. But people are saying the Bills now have loads of talent around Allen on offense and really what they mean is we now have Diggs. That's the only difference. I expect that our offense will still have growing pains. And I'm not convinced Daboll is that good of an OC yet, anyways. The jury is still out on him. Can our offense be really good with basically only one different player? I guess we'll see. Moss instead of Gore is significant. Diggs as WR#1 is huge and will open up the field for Brown and Beasley. Returning all nearly all of last year's starters (or upgrading positions) for another year in the same system is also huge. This offense has huge potential but ultimately it will go as far as Allen can take it. 5
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