Shaw66 Posted August 17, 2020 Posted August 17, 2020 1 hour ago, GunnerBill said: I think this is crazy. Winston is a way better Quarterback. Well, sure, if I'm a GM and I need a starter, I want Winston all day long. But that isn't the job I'm trying to fill. I'm looking for a guy who isn't going be a problem for the three or four weeks that I need him. I want a guy who understands the offense, who isn't a loose cannon, who will study and do what he's told every day, including for the eight or ten or seventeen weeks that he isn't playing. Winston isn't starting anywhere for a variety of reasons, but among them is that he doesn't fit that last sentence. He's in New Orleans because the Saints are shopping for a new starter, and Winston is a project who with the proper training could be the guy the Saints need. If I were Payton, I'd be thrilled that I got him. McDermott isn't looking for a starter; he's looking for a pure backup. As I said, the Bills want Allen to be a game manager with talent, and so far he's shown plenty of evidence that he can be that. When you're building your offense to be run by a game manager, you don't need a backup who has failed as a starter precisely because he wasn't a game manager. I'm not a Winston fan. I mean, he does amazing things sometimes, but you don't what you're going to get when he steps on the field. That's not the backup I want. 3 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Sure dude. Well then it’s stupid if they decided that Matt Barkley at more money is a better option than Newton or Winston. Absolutely idiotic. The Steelers make the playoffs if they didn’t have absolute trash at backup qb. The same will happen to us if Barkley/ Fromm has to play. Biscuit - McDermott and Beane know Newton very well, and they know Barkley very well. I seriously doubt that choosing Barkley over Newton was stupid. Of course, Newton probably wasn't an option, because Newton probably understood that he had slim chance and none to start in Buffalo.
GunnerBill Posted August 17, 2020 Posted August 17, 2020 Just now, Shaw66 said: Well, sure, if I'm a GM and I need a starter, I want Winston all day long. But that isn't the job I'm trying to fill. I'm looking for a guy who isn't going be a problem for the three or four weeks that I need him. I want a guy who understands the offense, who isn't a loose cannon, who will study and do what he's told every day, including for the eight or ten or seventeen weeks that he isn't playing. Winston isn't starting anywhere for a variety of reasons, but among them is that he doesn't fit that last sentence. He's in New Orleans because the Saints are shopping for a new starter, and Winston is a project who with the proper training could be the guy the Saints need. If I were Payton, I'd be thrilled that I got him. McDermott isn't looking for a starter; he's looking for a pure backup. As I said, the Bills want Allen to be a game manager with talent, and so far he's shown plenty of evidence that he can be that. When you're building your offense to be run by a game manager, you don't need a backup who has failed as a starter precisely because he wasn't a game manager. I'm not a Winston fan. I mean, he does amazing things sometimes, but you don't what you're going to get when he steps on the field. That's not the backup I want. So you'd rather have a backup who is good when he isn't playing rather than one who is good when he is. Barkley makes fewer plays than Winston and turns it over more than Winston. Once they are on the field there isn't a single thing Matt Barkley does better. But NFL teams like backup QBs who are not seen and not heard. I actually think the Bills are a team whose culture could support a backup who is a bit more of a personality. They don't need to go for a dull, bottom of the barrel, backup who won't rock the boat. Barkley isn't a game manager. He is a game loser. He is 2-5 as a starter with 10 total touchdowns and 25 total turnovers. He is a guy who can run a huddle competently and can execute half a dozen core concept NFL throws. That is all you get with him. Once you have to get away from that it goes south quickly. 2
C.Biscuit97 Posted August 17, 2020 Posted August 17, 2020 19 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: Well, sure, if I'm a GM and I need a starter, I want Winston all day long. But that isn't the job I'm trying to fill. I'm looking for a guy who isn't going be a problem for the three or four weeks that I need him. I want a guy who understands the offense, who isn't a loose cannon, who will study and do what he's told every day, including for the eight or ten or seventeen weeks that he isn't playing. Winston isn't starting anywhere for a variety of reasons, but among them is that he doesn't fit that last sentence. He's in New Orleans because the Saints are shopping for a new starter, and Winston is a project who with the proper training could be the guy the Saints need. If I were Payton, I'd be thrilled that I got him. McDermott isn't looking for a starter; he's looking for a pure backup. As I said, the Bills want Allen to be a game manager with talent, and so far he's shown plenty of evidence that he can be that. When you're building your offense to be run by a game manager, you don't need a backup who has failed as a starter precisely because he wasn't a game manager. I'm not a Winston fan. I mean, he does amazing things sometimes, but you don't what you're going to get when he steps on the field. That's not the backup I want. Biscuit - McDermott and Beane know Newton very well, and they know Barkley very well. I seriously doubt that choosing Barkley over Newton was stupid. Of course, Newton probably wasn't an option, because Newton probably understood that he had slim chance and none to start in Buffalo. With all due respect. Newton with a broken shoulder is better than Barkley. Allen, despite what many think, is far from a sure thing. But the Bills are invested in Allen because if he fails, it looks really bad for them. So I do get it but imo, if Allen can’t beat out Newton or Winston, he isn’t the guy anyways. hopefully, this is a moot point. As much doubt that I have about Allen, I want to see him play this year against a harder schedule. But if you are building the best possible team, you don’t settle for what we have. You tell Winston: Newton that it’s Allen’s job, practice hard, and if anything happens to him, you step in on a playoff level team and it could lead to a mega deal next year. 14 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: So you'd rather have a backup who is good when he isn't playing rather than one who is good when he is. Barkley makes fewer plays than Winston and turns it over more than Winston. Once they are on the field there isn't a single thing Matt Barkley does better. But NFL teams like backup QBs who are not seen and not heard. I actually think the Bills are a team whose culture could support a backup who is a bit more of a personality. They don't need to go for a dull, bottom of the barrel, backup who won't rock the boat. Barkley isn't a game manager. He is a game loser. He is 2-5 as a starter with 10 total touchdowns and 25 total turnovers. He is a guy who can run a huddle competently and can execute half a dozen core concept NFL throws. That is all you get with him. Once you have to get away from that it goes south quickly. I really don’t think some fans watch other games besides the Bills. Barkley was on the scrap heap for good reason. Nice guy, really bad nfl qb.
John from Riverside Posted August 17, 2020 Posted August 17, 2020 14 hours ago, Inigo Montoya said: I think back up QB is the one glaring hole on our roster heading into the 2020 season. Not only do we have to worry about a regular injury to Josh Allen this year, we also have to worry about him coming down with COVID19 and missing several games while he recuperates. We don't have another QB on this roster that I have confidence in to step into the lineup for three weeks and win us 1 or 2 games. I was really hoping we would make a run at Andy Dalton when he was released. How valuable was having Foles, Bridgewater, and Tanneyhill for the Eagles, Saints, and Titans over the last few seasons? I know there are only so many quality QBs that become available each year, but I think that when you are putting together a team that has a legitimate shot at winning a championship, you need to make an investment in a quality backup QB. I think it's worth $3-4 million a year in cap space to do so, especially when your starting QB is still on his rookie contract. To put that amount into perspective, that's half of what Beane will pay Trent Murphy this year to be a rotational DE. Dalton is getting $3 mil from the Cowboys this year. This year the depth of your roster is going to be more important than ever due to COVID19. We have quality depth at just about every position on the field except for the single most important one. I do not mean to bash Beane with this post. I am a huge Brandon Beane supporter and I think it's a miracle where we stand today compared to where we were just three years ago. That improvement is due in large part to how well Beane has done his job. Maybe he has tried but was unsuccessful in signing a quality backup. Who knows? At the end of the day I would just feel a lot more comfortable going into this season with someone more accomplished than Matt Barkley holding a clipboard next to Josh Allen. I think it is hard to dispute that backup QB is the single biggest hole on our roster heading into the 2020 season. I hope it doesn't cost us. If ANY NFL team loses their starting QB they are in trouble......there are literal;ly not enough starting material QBs to go around to all the teams.
Shaw66 Posted August 17, 2020 Posted August 17, 2020 14 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: So you'd rather have a backup who is good when he isn't playing rather than one who is good when he is. Barkley makes fewer plays than Winston and turns it over more than Winston. Once they are on the field there isn't a single thing Matt Barkley does better. But NFL teams like backup QBs who are not seen and not heard. I actually think the Bills are a team whose culture could support a backup who is a bit more of a personality. They don't need to go for a dull, bottom of the barrel, backup who won't rock the boat. Barkley isn't a game manager. He is a game loser. He is 2-5 as a starter with 10 total touchdowns and 25 total turnovers. He is a guy who can run a huddle competently and can execute half a dozen core concept NFL throws. That is all you get with him. Once you have to get away from that it goes south quickly. As I said, I'm not a Winston fan. Backup quarterback is a seven-day a week job, and it's different from being a starter. Winston's shortcomings are characteristics that are most important in the backup role. I hear you. I'm not troubled by the backups the Bills have. I think Fromm is likely to be the backup, because he's a quick study and he's physically better than Barkley. This will be Barkley's last season in Buffalo.
C.Biscuit97 Posted August 17, 2020 Posted August 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: As I said, I'm not a Winston fan. Backup quarterback is a seven-day a week job, and it's different from being a starter. Winston's shortcomings are characteristics that are most important in the backup role. I hear you. I'm not troubled by the backups the Bills have. I think Fromm is likely to be the backup, because he's a quick study and he's physically better than Barkley. This will be Barkley's last season in Buffalo. I’m not a huge Winston fan but he is a million times better than better than Barkley. He actually had talent. but what does Sean Payton know about offense? Definitely would defer to Brian Daboll. 4 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: If ANY NFL team loses their starting QB they are in trouble......there are literal;ly not enough starting material QBs to go around to all the teams. Allen played about average level qb play last year. Newton and Winston could step in and they won’t miss a beat. If Barkley has to play, it’s over.
John from Riverside Posted August 17, 2020 Posted August 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: I’m not a huge Winston fan but he is a million times better than better than Barkley. He actually had talent. but what does Sean Payton know about offense? Definitely would defer to Brian Daboll. Allen played about average level qb play last year. Newton and Winston could step in and they won’t miss a beat. If Barkley has to play, it’s over. And you have issues in the locker room.....no thanks
Mr. WEO Posted August 17, 2020 Posted August 17, 2020 2 hours ago, Doc said: Do I need to explain this to you? Dolphins, Rams, Raiders, Steelers, Broncos. Do you think Bridgewater wins as many games as he did without a stacked offense like the Saints had? I'm always up for a laugh. So Barkley beats all those teams? LOL---see?...I'm laughing already!
MJS Posted August 17, 2020 Posted August 17, 2020 1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Sure dude. Well then it’s stupid if they decided that Matt Barkley at more money is a better option than Newton or Winston. Absolutely idiotic. The Steelers make the playoffs if they didn’t have absolute trash at backup qb. The same will happen to us if Barkley/ Fromm has to play. Newton wasn't realistically going to sign somewhere to be a backup, and I wouldn't want him anywhere near this team anyway. He is as "me first" as it gets. Winston has had a truck load of off the field and character issues. Neither of those guys were realistic to sign. Now, there are other guys who would have been decent options, like Marcus Mariota or Case Keenum, maybe even Blake Bortles. I would have liked to see them go after one of those guys. They all have years of starter experience and even playoff experience. But I'm not bent out of shape that backup QB wasn't a priority. Their approach of drafting a guy to develop is fine with me.
GunnerBill Posted August 17, 2020 Posted August 17, 2020 26 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: As I said, I'm not a Winston fan. Backup quarterback is a seven-day a week job, and it's different from being a starter. Winston's shortcomings are characteristics that are most important in the backup role. I hear you. I'm not troubled by the backups the Bills have. I think Fromm is likely to be the backup, because he's a quick study and he's physically better than Barkley. This will be Barkley's last season in Buffalo. I agree this is Barkley's last season. I just hope they bring vet competition in next year for Fromm. If he beats them out, great. But we have gift wrapped the job for two years now for a bottom end backup. I actually supported it last year because the most important thing was Josh's development (more important to me last year than making the playoffs) and if he was comfortable with Matt in the meeting room then fine. But now the Bills are entering a window. Winning matters. In my mind they should have sought out an upgrade at the backup spot for that reason. The Bills need the best backup they can reasonably afford especially while Josh is costing peanuts. 1
Doc Posted August 17, 2020 Posted August 17, 2020 1 hour ago, GunnerBill said: We might not beat the Broncos with Josh let alone with Barkley. I'd say they have a great shot to beat them with Josh. Barkley would be a little more iffy but that wasn't the point of listing those teams. 9 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: I'm always up for a laugh. So Barkley beats all those teams? LOL---see?...I'm laughing already! You're always up for something. It usually doesn't end up with you laughing, though.
Shaw66 Posted August 17, 2020 Posted August 17, 2020 28 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I agree this is Barkley's last season. I just hope they bring vet competition in next year for Fromm. If he beats them out, great. But we have gift wrapped the job for two years now for a bottom end backup. I actually supported it last year because the most important thing was Josh's development (more important to me last year than making the playoffs) and if he was comfortable with Matt in the meeting room then fine. But now the Bills are entering a window. Winning matters. In my mind they should have sought out an upgrade at the backup spot for that reason. The Bills need the best backup they can reasonably afford especially while Josh is costing peanuts. Good points. Who would you suggest? 1
Mr. WEO Posted August 17, 2020 Posted August 17, 2020 3 hours ago, ScottLaw said: Against last years schedule with this team I could see the back up QB going .500 or so.... this year no way. They'll be lucky to win one... depending on who they play if Allen does get hurt. 3 hours ago, Doc said: Depends where in the schedule. 3 hours ago, ScottLaw said: They can beat the Jets and Chargers with Matt Barkley... don't see anyone else there they beat.(assuming the other teams starting QB isn't hurt) 3 hours ago, Doc said: Dolphins, Rams, Raiders, Steelers, Broncos. Do you think Bridgewater wins as many games as he did without a stacked offense like the Saints had? 15 minutes ago, Doc said: I'd say they have a great shot to beat them with Josh. Barkley would be a little more iffy but that wasn't the point of listing those teams. When specifically responding to a post describing who Barkley could or couldn't beat....you claimed he could also beat those 5 teams you listed. Since that unforced error caved in on you for obvious reasons, NOW you are saying that you meant "Josh" has a "great shot" at beating those teams". Always a moving target, doc....yet you always end up in a corner. 1
GunnerBill Posted August 17, 2020 Posted August 17, 2020 22 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: Good points. Who would you suggest? I have named the 9 I'd have had interest in this year. The dream for next year is that we bring Fitz home. His last ride in the NFL backing up Josh on a Bills team that can contend for a championship. That would be pretty cool. If not him then the likes of Dalton and Brissett would meet the criteria. 1 1 1
Mr. WEO Posted August 17, 2020 Posted August 17, 2020 1 minute ago, GunnerBill said: I have named the 9 I'd have had interest in this year. The dream for next year is that we bring Fitz home. His last ride in the NFL backing up Josh on a Bills team that can contend for a championship. That would be pretty cool. If not him then the likes of Dalton and Brissett would meet the criteria. YEEEEEEESSSSSS!!!!
Doc Posted August 17, 2020 Posted August 17, 2020 8 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: When specifically responding to a post describing who Barkley could or couldn't beat....you claimed he could also beat those 5 teams you listed. Since that unforced error caved in on you for obvious reasons, NOW you are saying that you meant "Josh" has a "great shot" at beating those teams". Always a moving target, doc....yet you always end up in a corner. Yes, "could." I must have missed that it's a fact that he can't beat those teams.
Shaw66 Posted August 17, 2020 Posted August 17, 2020 3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I have named the 9 I'd have had interest in this year. The dream for next year is that we bring Fitz home. His last ride in the NFL backing up Josh on a Bills team that can contend for a championship. That would be pretty cool. If not him then the likes of Dalton and Brissett would meet the criteria. I will go back to find your post. I don't know how likely it is to get a quality former starter. These guys have made so much money; I dont think as many of them will sign up for that role as once did. There aren't many Earl Morrals out there any more.
Mr. WEO Posted August 17, 2020 Posted August 17, 2020 1 minute ago, Doc said: Yes, "could." I must have missed that it's a fact that he can't beat those teams. You must have missed his pro career. He's a bum. He's not beating those 5 teams. As for the Steelers, the Bills needed a "Josh Allen 4th Q comeback" to beat the Pittsburgh Ducks last season.
Shaw66 Posted August 17, 2020 Posted August 17, 2020 11 hours ago, GunnerBill said: If you wouldn't take Jameis Winston to win you a game over Matt Barkley you are mad. I get your point, and a lot of NFL teams still seem to agree with you, but I think the approach of having a backup who is great in the meeting room and in the locker room but bad when he has to play is outdated and flawed. Winston, Dalton, Keenum, Mariota, Flacco, Foles (I get he might end up the starter), Kyle Allen, Hoyer were all out there this offseason. Blake Bortles still is. They are all obviously superior to Barkley on the field regardless of what they do or don't bring to the film room. I'd have liked the Bills to bring one of them in to compete for the #2 job. If the season is sunk by Barkley needing to play multiple games I think that question will be asked of Brandon Beane. And it will be legitimate. Well, I know it only takes one, but very few of those guys are signing with a team with an established starter. Keenum and Hoyer, probably. I'd guess that if Flacco cant start he will retire pretty quickly, for example.
Doc Posted August 17, 2020 Posted August 17, 2020 Just now, Doc said: There are no great shakes out there. The best is probably Bortles, but it seems they're fine with Barkley and will probably go with Fromm is looks like Josh will miss a significant portion of the season. There are no great shakes out there. The best is probably Bortles, but it seems they're fine with Barkley and will probably go with Fromm if it looks like Josh will miss a significant portion of the season. Just now, Mr. WEO said: You must have missed his pro career. He's a bum. He's not beating those 5 teams. As for the Steelers, the Bills needed a "Josh Allen 4th Q comeback" to beat the Pittsburgh Ducks last season. Duly noted.
Recommended Posts