Lack of legit backup QB may be Bills' 2020 Achilles heel

[Inigo Montoya]

I think back up QB is the one glaring hole on our roster heading into the 2020 season.  Not only do we have to worry about a regular injury to Josh Allen this year, we also have to worry about him coming down with COVID19 and missing several games while he recuperates.  We don't have another QB on this roster that I have confidence in to step into the lineup for three weeks and win us 1 or 2 games.  I was really hoping we would make a run at Andy Dalton when he was released.  How valuable was having Foles,  Bridgewater, and Tanneyhill for the Eagles, Saints, and Titans over the last few seasons?

 

I know there are only so many quality QBs that become available each year, but I think that when you are putting together a team that has a legitimate shot at winning a championship, you need to make an investment in a quality backup QB.  I think it's worth $3-4 million a year in cap space to do so, especially when your starting QB is still on his rookie contract.  To put that amount into perspective, that's half of what Beane will pay Trent Murphy this year to be a rotational DE.   Dalton is getting $3 mil from the Cowboys this year.

 

This year the depth of your roster is going to be more important than ever due to COVID19.  We have quality depth at just about every position on the field except for the single most important one.  I do not mean to bash Beane with this post.  I am a huge Brandon Beane supporter and I think it's a miracle where we stand today compared to where we were just three years ago.  That improvement is due in large part to how well Beane has done his job. Maybe he has tried but was unsuccessful in signing a quality backup.  Who knows?   At the end of the day I would just feel a lot more comfortable going into this season with someone more accomplished than Matt Barkley holding a clipboard next to Josh Allen.

 

I think it is hard to dispute that backup QB is the single biggest hole on our roster heading into the 2020 season.  I hope it doesn't cost us.

 

Edited August 17, 2020 by Inigo Montoya

[MJS]

Sounds awesome. If our biggest issue is a backup we must be in a pretty good spot.

[Inigo Montoya]

1 hour ago, MJS said:

Sounds awesome. If our biggest issue is a backup we must be in a pretty good spot.

 

 

We have the deepest, most talented roster since the Marv Levy / Jim Kelly Super Bowl Era. 

 

I just wish we had a Frank Reich.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

2 minutes ago, Inigo Montoya said:

 

 

We have the deepest, most talented roster since the Marv Levy / Jim Kelly Super Bowl Era. 

 

I just wish we had a Frank Reich.

I wish we had a Jim Kelly.

Edited August 17, 2020 by Buffalo_Stampede

[Inigo Montoya]

Just now, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I wish we had a Jim Kelly.

 

After graduating college and playing in the USFL for a couple of seasons Jim Kelly finally joined the Bills. He didn't have a winning season with the Bills until his third season.  Let's give Allen a little more time to see where he ends up.  I think Josh might end up being special in his own right.  Not too many Jim Kelly's out there.

[Rochesterfan]

2 hours ago, Inigo Montoya said:

I think back up QB is the one glaring hole on our roster heading into the 2020 season.  Not only do we have to worry about a regular injury to Josh Allen this year, we also have to worry about him coming down with COVID19 and missing several games while he recuperates.  We don't have another QB on this roster that I have confidence in to step into the lineup for three weeks and win us 1 or 2 games.  I was really hoping we would make a run at Andy Dalton when he was released.  How valuable was having Foles,  Bridgewater, and Tanneyhill for the Eagles, Saints, and Titans over the last few seasons?

 

I know there are only so many quality QBs that become available each year, but I think that when you are putting together a team that has a legitimate shot at winning a championship, you need to make an investment in a quality backup QB.  I think it's worth $3-4 million a year in cap space to do so, especially when your starting QB is still on his rookie contract.  To put that amount into perspective, that's half of what Beane will pay Trent Murphy this year to be a rotational DE.   Dalton is getting $3 mil from the Cowboys this year.

 

This year the depth of your roster is going to be more important than ever due to COVID19.  We have quality depth at just about every position on the field except for the single most important one.  I do not mean to bash Beane with this post.  I am a huge Brandon Beane supporter and I think it's a miracle where we stand today compared to where we were just three years ago.  That improvement is due in large part to how well Beane has done his job. Maybe he has tried but was unsuccessful in signing a quality backup.  Who knows?   At the end of the day I would just feel a lot more comfortable going into this season with someone more accomplished than Matt Barkley holding a clipboard next to Josh Allen.

 

I think it is hard to dispute that backup QB is the single biggest hole on our roster heading into the 2020 season.  I hope it doesn't cost us.

 

 

This just brings up so many questions.

1. How do we know if we have a Frank Reich on our team?   Frank’s 1st 3 years in the league he completed 10 of 20 passes for just over 100 yards and 0 TDs with 2 Ints.  Not exactly the stuff of legends.

 

2. Could Fromm become Reich like or at least be that good coming out of the gate?  We do not know - just as we knew nothing of Reich until honestly the 1992 playoffs - 8 years into his career.  At that point he was 4-2 as a starter with a 60% completion percentage on a team that was loaded with talent.

 

3. I love Frank for all his patience and the way he would stay back and help guide Jim when needed, but as a true QB - he was nothing special.  He was 5-15 as a starter in his career with a sub 55% completion, 40 TDs and 36 ints.  Heck throughout most of his career - he was Matt Barkley.  Reich had a lower completion percentage, similar win %, but a much better TD to Int ratio.  The difference is Reich did most of his damage when on a team with enough talent to go to 4 Super Bowls rather than limited talent teams like Barkley.  Reich’s one year with more than 3 starts saw him with a sub 54% completion percentage, 16 TDs to 15 ints in 7 games with the Jets and a 1-6 record.  Is that what you are looking for?

 

I get that Back-up QB may be an issue, but I am not sure we do not have something similar in place already.  We may need better, but then so do a ton of teams as there are not 32 legitimate starting QBs let alone back-ups in this league.  I would love to see better, but not sure at this point what is really better and what is just window dressing.

 

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

56 minutes ago, Inigo Montoya said:

 

After graduating college and playing in the USFL for a couple of seasons Jim Kelly finally joined the Bills. He didn't have a winning season with the Bills until his third season.  Let's give Allen a little more time to see where he ends up.  I think Josh might end up being special in his own right.  Not too many Jim Kelly's out there.

So if you had your choice to add Frank Reich or Jim Kelly to this roster what is your choice?

 

Obviously you're adding Kelly.

Edited August 17, 2020 by Buffalo_Stampede

[Inigo Montoya]

 

8 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

So if you had your choice to add Frank Reich or Jim Kelly to this roster what is your choice?

 

Obviously you're adding Kelly.

 

Jim is still healing up.  Kelly Strong Jimbo!!!

 

I'd take Frank Reich and send our AFC competitor the Indianapolis Colts into total disarray scrambling to replace their head coach with only three weeks until the season opener.

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 minute ago, Inigo Montoya said:

 

 

Jim is still healing up.  Kelly Strong Jimbo!!!

 

I'd take Frank Reich and send our AFC competitor the Indianapolis Colts into total disarray scrambling to replace their head coach with only three weeks until the season opener.

 

Well I guess back on topic, starting QB is the Bills Achilles heel.

[HOUSE]

 

Edited August 17, 2020 by HOUSE

[Inigo Montoya]

1 hour ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

This just brings up so many questions.

1. How do we know if we have a Frank Reich on our team?   Frank’s 1st 3 years in the league he completed 10 of 20 passes for just over 100 yards and 0 TDs with 2 Ints.  Not exactly the stuff of legends.

 

2. Could Fromm become Reich like or at least be that good coming out of the gate?  We do not know - just as we knew nothing of Reich until honestly the 1992 playoffs - 8 years into his career.  At that point he was 4-2 as a starter with a 60% completion percentage on a team that was loaded with talent.

 

3. I love Frank for all his patience and the way he would stay back and help guide Jim when needed, but as a true QB - he was nothing special.  He was 5-15 as a starter in his career with a sub 55% completion, 40 TDs and 36 ints.  Heck throughout most of his career - he was Matt Barkley.  Reich had a lower completion percentage, similar win %, but a much better TD to Int ratio.  The difference is Reich did most of his damage when on a team with enough talent to go to 4 Super Bowls rather than limited talent teams like Barkley.  Reich’s one year with more than 3 starts saw him with a sub 54% completion percentage, 16 TDs to 15 ints in 7 games with the Jets and a 1-6 record.  Is that what you are looking for?

 

I get that Back-up QB may be an issue, but I am not sure we do not have something similar in place already.  We may need better, but then so do a ton of teams as there are not 32 legitimate starting QBs let alone back-ups in this league.  I would love to see better, but not sure at this point what is really better and what is just window dressing.

 

 

 

All fair points Rochester. 

 

In an odd way I think you underscore my point.  We honestly don't know what we have on this roster when it comes to backup QB.  Could Barkley, Fromm, or Webb rise to the occasion and play lights out for a stretch this season?  I guess it's possible, but admittedly it's not very likely.  For a team that I believe has a real shot to win a Super Bowl this year for the first time in over 20 years, and that has available cap space, I think shoring up the backup QB position should be an important consideration.

 

If we had offered Dalton $5 mil this year ($2 mil more than the Cowboys did) would that have been enough to lure him out of going home to Texas to backup Prescott this year?  I don't know.  I think it would have been $5 mil well spent though.  If we have to run Matt Barkley out of the tunnel to start weeks 8, 9, and 10 against the Pats, Seahawks, and Cardinals I think we would all be jumping at the opportunity to bring in Dalton at that price.

 

Just my opinion.  I understand your position though.

 

 

Edited August 17, 2020 by Inigo Montoya

[machine gun kelly]

Stampede, I don’t think we know yet on either.  We’re in such a world now, not saying you, but many fans want a home run quick.  The third year and fourth are really the tell tale for Allen, amd Fromm might be a solid back up.  Barkley is who he is with this many miles on him.  He’s a sound decision temporarily, but the key with Fromm is his footwork and mechanics.  He has a natural ability for accuracy and timing, but lacks the mechanics to have the arm strength to be a top flight back up.  He might be able to get there.

 

Forget about his dumb ars comments which were abominable, but I’m just speaking to the possibility he could be a project over the next couple of years.  Inigo, I don’t deny you’re claim on Dalton and would have loved him.   I don’t think he would have come here though.  In Dallas, he’s close to home, and Dallas is a place Where he can have other off field revenue streams promoting car dealerships, etc.  He also sees I think an opportunity of the Dak thing continues the outside chance to regain a starting job, or at least another larger contract later.

 

In Buffalo, he is absolutely relegated to a small market with a young and potentially growing QB where he has very little if any chance to start in the future.  He knew this administration has latched itself to Allen, and then there is the impact on Allen.  The front office knows Allen will be looking over his shoulder if Dalton was signed.  I just don’t see any teams having top flight back up QB’s.

[machine gun kelly]

Inigo, I’ll give you this one, Fromm will provide nothing for us this year.  He’s going to take time so you’re points there are valid.  Bottom line is how effective if we need him will Barkley be for a couple of games.  I’m not confident either there, but didn’t see any better options.

[Thurman#1]

Backup QB is the biggest hole? Man, that's pretty questionable. If you're considering backups as possible holes, we've got several holes by that definition, at LB for example, at WR if one of the top three goes down ... if backups can be holes, we've got a few and so does every team.

 

I mean, in one way it makes sense, that being that just about all 32 teams have a major dropoff if the #1 guy gets hurt. We do too. But even if we could get one of the better backup QBs in the league, Tyrod, say, or Fitz, we aren't likely good enough to win a title if forced to play the backup. 

 

If the injury happens early in the season just about nobody will win with a backup. If it happens late, ala the Phil Simms and Carson Wentz injuries then you have a chance, but the rest of the team had better be terrific. And more, you had better have a first-string QB who's really really solid, as Simms and Wentz were. That way before the starter is injured the team can build up a big backlog of early wins they can count on to keep them in contention when the backup plays.  I don't think Josh is there yet, don't think the difficult schedule is likely to allow us to be in a good enough position in case of an injury, and don't think the team is quite there yet either, though that's harder to read.

[Big Turk]

23 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

Inigo, I’ll give you this one, Fromm will provide nothing for us this year.  He’s going to take time so you’re points there are valid.  Bottom line is how effective if we need him will Barkley be for a couple of games.  I’m not confident either there, but didn’t see any better options.

 

I'd feel a little more comfortable with Fromm if they had a normal offseason but he would still be a rookie...

[GunnerBill]

I am surprised they didn't try to add a vet. There were better vet options than Barkley out there. He clearly has a v good relationship with Josh though and that factors into it. Fromm reminds me a lot of Barkley. Maybe he is better down the road, who knows, but for now I would have liked to see some legit vet competition for Matt. Hopefully Josh stays healthy and it doesn't matter.

[machine gun kelly]

3 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

Backup QB is the biggest hole? Man, that's pretty questionable. If you're considering backups as possible holes, we've got several holes by that definition, at LB for example, at WR if one of the top three goes down ... if backups can be holes, we've got a few and so does every team.

 

I mean, in one way it makes sense, that being that just about all 32 teams have a major dropoff if the #1 guy gets hurt. We do too. But even if we could get one of the better backup QBs in the league, Tyrod, say, or Fitz, we aren't likely good enough to win a title if forced to play the backup. 

 

If the injury happens early in the season just about nobody will win with a backup. If it happens late, ala the Phil Simms and Carson Wentz injuries then you have a chance, but the rest of the team had better be terrific. And more, you had better have a first-string QB who's really really solid, as Simms and Wentz were. That way before the starter is injured the team can build up a big backlog of early wins they can count on to keep them in contention when the backup plays.  I don't think Josh is there yet, don't think the difficult schedule is likely to allow us to be in a good enough position in case of an injury, and don't think the team is quite there yet either, though that's harder to read.

Excellent points.  I think that’s what they are gambling on is if an injury occurs, it’s hopefully late in the year and the rest of the team is humming and already has a lot of wins under the belt.  The other part is Allen is going to be on a tight leash to not hold onto the ball too long and just learn to check down or throw it away.  Brady has lasted twenty years with that lesson.  I think he really learned a lot from that injury.  Hopefully Allen doesn’t have to go through an IR injury to learn the same.

 

I looked at a couple of stories as Inigo motivated me on the list of back up QB’s on the 32 teams, and there just aren’t that many quality back up QB’s.  Besides Fitz and Dalton, Considering a guy like Winston is not this great back up like Bridgewater was in NO.  Winston shows greatness at times, then he also shows great flaws in Int’s, fumbles, etc.  A Frank Reich is truly rare as was Hostetler, and Foles in the past.  We’ll see if Foles is really a starting QB this year in Chicago.

 

I do think next year we may have Inigo (may) what you’re seeking as Fromm could develop into a real quality back up.  That’s why I don’t think they allow him to go to the PS.

[eball]

This is not a problem.  Josh is invincible.

[GunnerBill]

9 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

Excellent points.  I think that’s what they are gambling on is if an injury occurs, it’s hopefully late in the year and the rest of the team is humming and already has a lot of wins under the belt.  The other part is Allen is going to be on a tight leash to not hold onto the ball too long and just learn to check down or throw it away.  Brady has lasted twenty years with that lesson.  I think he really learned a lot from that injury.  Hopefully Allen doesn’t have to go through an IR injury to learn the same.

 

I looked at a couple of stories as Inigo motivated me on the list of back up QB’s on the 32 teams, and there just aren’t that many quality back up QB’s.  Besides Fitz and Dalton, Considering a guy like Winston is not this great back up like Bridgewater was in NO.  Winston shows greatness at times, then he also shows great flaws in Int’s, fumbles, etc.  A Frank Reich is truly rare as was Hostetler, and Foles in the past.  We’ll see if Foles is really a starting QB this year in Chicago.

 

I do think next year we may have Inigo (may) what you’re seeking as Fromm could develop into a real quality back up.  That’s why I don’t think they allow him to go to the PS.

 

If you wouldn't take Jameis Winston to win you a game over Matt Barkley you are mad. I get your point, and a lot of NFL teams still seem to agree with you, but I think the approach of having a backup who is great in the meeting room and in the locker room but bad when he has to play is outdated and flawed. 

 

Winston, Dalton, Keenum, Mariota, Flacco, Foles (I get he might end up the starter), Kyle Allen, Hoyer were all out there this offseason. Blake Bortles still is. They are all obviously superior to Barkley on the field regardless of what they do or don't bring to the film room. I'd have liked the Bills to bring one of them in to compete for the #2 job. 

 

If the season is sunk by Barkley needing to play multiple games I think that question will be asked of Brandon Beane. And it will be legitimate. 

Edited August 17, 2020 by GunnerBill

[machine gun kelly]

I didn’t say I wouldn’t take Winston over Barkley.  I’m saying both have flaws and I suffered watching Winston for years down here.  He can single handedly lose a lot of games for any team.  Bridgewater was a guy you could depend on and proved it last year when Brees was out.