GunnerBill Posted August 15, 2020 Posted August 15, 2020 13 minutes ago, Logic said: Yeah. I'll say they are either even with the Bills or better than the Bills at QB, RB, and TE. The Jets can not reasonably claim that their offensive line is as good as Buffalo's since they have not yet seen them play. Even on a projection basis, though, I'm not very impressed with some of the players they brought in. I'm not convinced, for instance, that Van Roten will be an upgrade over Brian Winters. I'm also not convinced that George Fant will be a starting caliber RT, fi that's what they're counting on him to be. As for the defense, I will concede that the Jets' interior DL is as good as or better than Buffalo's. That's about all I'll give them on defense. The Bills have superior edge rushers, linebackers, cornerbacks, and safeties. So the Jets, in my opinion, have a case at QB, RB, TE, and interior DL. In none of those cases do I feel like the Jets definitely have the edge, but they certainly MAY, and it's at least reasonable to say they're even. WR, Edge, ILB, OLB, CB, FS, SS...all Buffalo. Crucially, the units in which the Jets are lacking in talent -- offensive line, edge rushers, and cornerbacks -- are all CRITICAL to success in today's NFL. If you can't block, can't rush the passer, and can't cover the opposition's receivers, you're not going to win many ball games. So it's not just that they lack talent, it's that they lack talent at very important positions. Agree with all that. I am a big George Fant sceptic. Looks like Tarzan plays like Jane.
JetsFan20 Posted August 15, 2020 Posted August 15, 2020 If you were Joe Douglas and you had a 6 year contract what would you do? He’s playing the slow game knowing that the Jets roster has too many holes to fix in one offseason.
GunnerBill Posted August 15, 2020 Posted August 15, 2020 22 minutes ago, JetsFan20 said: If you were Joe Douglas and you had a 6 year contract what would you do? He’s playing the slow game knowing that the Jets roster has too many holes to fix in one offseason. I like Douglas. If the Jets truly stick with him he will get it right. 2
Utah John Posted August 15, 2020 Posted August 15, 2020 The Jets remind me a lot of many Bills situations. They're plugging holes in their dikes as fast as they can, but new ones pop up they can't deal with. It's a constant churn of talent. The Bills broke out of this partly because of McBeane, but also through the leadership of a core of veterans, and the addition by subtraction of some foot-draggers (Dareus, I'm looking at you). Kyle Williams and LoRax and Hyde and Poyer were the right guys in the right place. Gilmore was a very good player and a tough loss, but the Bills would have had to tie up too much money to keep him. Instead, they bit the bullet and let the expensive guys walk. They're in a prime position now, with few really expensive players and a core group of guys who now see they have what it takes to win. The Bills are going to have to do some cap magic in a couple of years when Allen gets his new contract, along with Edmunds and White and Diggs and possibly Singletary or Moss.
Logic Posted August 15, 2020 Author Posted August 15, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, JetsFan20 said: If you were Joe Douglas and you had a 6 year contract what would you do? He’s playing the slow game knowing that the Jets roster has too many holes to fix in one offseason. Don't get me wrong -- I like Joe Douglas. I think he'll be a good GM for the Jets. I also like Sam Darnold. Regrettably, however, the circumstances leading up to and including this season are simply not ideal in terms of fostering the growth of a young QB. Being on his second head coach and third offensive coordinator is not ideal. Losing both Quincy Enunwa and Robby Anderson is not ideal. Having to depend on a rookie WR for major contributions in a year where there is no pre-season is not ideal. Entering such a pivotal year while playing behind a completely new offensive line is not ideal. I like Douglas, and I think he'll eventually right the ship. At THIS MOMENT IN TIME, though, I feel the conditions around Darnold are much less than ideal. I also feel that since the Jets lack edge rushers and cornerbacks and since Mosley is not playing and Adams flew the coup, the defense will regress, and the Jets likely won't win many games. The combination of the poor infrastructure around Darnold and the likely regression of the defense seems as though it might hinder his progression as a QB, and given that Joe Douglas was not the man that chose Darnold to begin with, it may lead the Jets to at least flirt with dipping their toes back into the quarterback market next offseason -- something which would ALSO not be ideal, given the lack of college season. Maybe I'm dead wrong, Darnold will flourish, and I'll have to eat crow. At the end of the day, I'm simply saying that I much prefer what the Bills have done around Josh Allen to what the Jets have done around Sam Darnold. I feel that most Jets fans, if they're being honest, would prefer what Allen has around him to what Darnold has, too. Edited August 15, 2020 by Logic 1
Call_Of_Ktulu Posted August 15, 2020 Posted August 15, 2020 The Jets franchise is at such a all time low, only Russ and Whaley can get them back into contention. They should hire both of these guys ASAP. 1
Lockdown24 Posted August 15, 2020 Posted August 15, 2020 No kidding, Sam makes the high school team the jets are fielding somewhat watchable. That said, i like what Joe D is doing but it’s still a year away.
John from Riverside Posted August 15, 2020 Posted August 15, 2020 I always get a little nervous when a team has to rely on a rookie (at any postion) coming right out the gate....... Our team seems to be at the point where we have such a nice mix of veteran and rookie players at almost every position that we DONT have to dont have to do that.....that is Beanes work Look at our offensive line......all veteran players.....even the guys we think are going to be backing up our veteran players Look at our DL......the first player we took in this last draft has the advantage of not being "the guy" coming into the league Look at our WR's......instead of taking a WR in the 1st round and saying that is our starter.....we traded for a young productive WR in Diggs that we KNOW can be our starter....then doubled down on two more WR's in this draft to bring along Take a look at our RB's.......An established starter......a guy to bring along Take a look at our LB's.....and on and on We biult this team differently then the jets did....that is why the bills are no longer in the jets world 1
Buffalo Junction Posted August 16, 2020 Posted August 16, 2020 5 hours ago, Logic said: I wanted to add that I was poking around on their message board just now and saw a poster state that the Jets roster is "even with the Bills" in all but the secondary and WR corps. Bless his heart 1 1
Inigo Montoya Posted August 16, 2020 Posted August 16, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, Logic said: Yep. The Jets did it exactly backwards: They're paying big money to their running back, but they've put a mediocre or worse offensive line in front of him. I'd much rather spend big money on the offensive line and then plug in a running back. I don't expect Bell to have a very good career as a New York Jet, at least until they convincingly improve their offensive line. Agree 100% Logic. Nice thread bye the way... MacCagnan was a terrible GM and knew the writing was on the wall for him and tried what a lot of GMs do to try and save their job when things start to circle the drain, bring in the big, flashy free agent signing to try and turn things around quickly. As usual, it didn't work. What good is a RB without a line to run behind? Joe Douglas is an Ozzie Newsome disciple and seems to know what he is doing and I expect him to bring the Jets back to a competitive level in just a couple of seasons. We have a two year head start on the Jets at this point. Douglas is building a stock pile of draft picks and clearing cap space to lure in a solid head coach after this season. He has a good QB already on the roster and is trying to rebuild the O-Line just like Beane did. They have some solid pieces on defense too. I think the Jets' head coaching job will be a highly coveted gig after this season. I wouldn't be surprised to see Josh McDaniels end up there. Lets hope the Bills can strike while the iron is hot with all three of our AFCE foes going through major transitions right now. Edited August 16, 2020 by Inigo Montoya 1
TigerJ Posted August 16, 2020 Posted August 16, 2020 (edited) The line situation for the Jets is a big factor. Lots of observers are looking for Leveon Bell to have a big comeback year, but with questions on the offensive line and the turnover at WR means everybody will be looking for Bell, and he may have to create his own opportunities if the line doesn't turn out to be a lot better than it looks. If Bell can't get things going, defenses are going to tee off on Darnold. Edited August 16, 2020 by TigerJ 1
Richard Noggin Posted August 16, 2020 Posted August 16, 2020 9 hours ago, SCBills said: Agreed. I’m not as down on the Jets as others here. At least not until we play them, and I see that the differences on paper equate to differences on the field. RB, QB, TE and Slot are all toss ups heading into the season on who gets the edge.. Bills vs Jets. OL, WR1, WR2.. clear edge to the Bills. On defense, they’ll have a stout front 7, even without Mosley, but that secondary is looking rough. I think for most analysts, and many GMs, talent in the secondary has become the most important piece of the defensive puzzle. Heard some pundit on WGR the other day emphasize this point, and certainly we're seeing contracts and cap allocations indicate or at least suggest as much: your secondary sets the tone in a passing league. Pass rushers will always matter, but they can only get there so fast on most plays. They need the back end to force the QB to hold it just a little bit longer, to come off his first or second read, or to doubt what he's seeing just long enough to get home. Brady has always been a great example of this: they say pressure up the middle is his weakness (same goes for all QBs of course), but really, it's always been about making him hold the ball just a LITTLE bit longer through disguise and execution on the back-end, which then exposes his risk-averse, nut-less tendency to turf the ball as real NFL football players close in on him. With this in mind, Buffalo and Miami (and of course New England) have built modern defenses. The Jets are some vestigial anachronism of the 90s and early '00s where Greggo's machismo was rewarded. Eff the Jets. They suck. Miami, for example, is built more progressively.
Richard Noggin Posted August 16, 2020 Posted August 16, 2020 4 hours ago, Inigo Montoya said: Agree 100% Logic. Nice thread bye the way... MacCagnan was a terrible GM and knew the writing was on the wall for him and tried what a lot of GMs do to try and save their job when things start to circle the drain, bring in the big, flashy free agent signing to try and turn things around quickly. As usual, it didn't work. What good is a RB without a line to run behind? Joe Douglas is an Ozzie Newsome disciple and seems to know what he is doing and I expect him to bring the Jets back to a competitive level in just a couple of seasons. We have a two year head start on the Jets at this point. Douglas is building a stock pile of draft picks and clearing cap space to lure in a solid head coach after this season. He has a good QB already on the roster and is trying to rebuild the O-Line just like Beane did. They have some solid pieces on defense too. I think the Jets' head coaching job will be a highly coveted gig after this season. I wouldn't be surprised to see Josh McDaniels end up there. Lets hope the Bills can strike while the iron is hot with all three of our AFCE foes going through major transitions right now. I agree in large part. But...am I the only one who thinks the Dolphins will be even more difficult to play this season? (Let the record show: they gave the Bills "fitz" last season, and look to be improved in 2020. Obviously, QB is the wildcard here.) I think they're being built to be a pain in the A$$ for opposing QBs...
Warcodered Posted August 16, 2020 Posted August 16, 2020 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said: I agree in large part. But...am I the only one who thinks the Dolphins will be even more difficult to play this season? (Let the record show: they gave the Bills "fitz" last season, and look to be improved in 2020. Obviously, QB is the wildcard here.) I think they're being built to be a pain in the A$$ for opposing QBs... Dolphins I worry about becoming a problem eventually this year though even without the Covid shortened offseason it was going to be a lot to ask for Flores to pull all those new pieces together in one season. Edited August 16, 2020 by Warcodered
BuffBillsForLife Posted August 16, 2020 Posted August 16, 2020 The Jets are always the team besides the Bills I think about the most, our situations are so similar and I find myself comparing our position groups and development. Definitely think the Bills have the leg up now, what a blessing a competent GM and head coach are.
eball Posted August 16, 2020 Posted August 16, 2020 5 hours ago, Warcodered said: Dolphins I worry about becoming a problem eventually this year though even without the Covid shortened offseason it was going to be a lot to ask for Flores to pull all those new pieces together in one season. I’m not picking on you specifically, but in my opinion “worrying” about when other teams might become good is a waste of time. As Bills fans we have suffered for a very long time, but we need to start realizing that things have changed. With the leadership now in place the Bills are poised to become one of those four or five teams you look at as being “in the mix” each and every season. Who cares what the other teams do? And by the way, I loved the Bills-Fish rivalry of the 80s and 90s. If that returns, so be it.
GunnerBill Posted August 16, 2020 Posted August 16, 2020 17 minutes ago, eball said: I’m not picking on you specifically, but in my opinion “worrying” about when other teams might become good is a waste of time. As Bills fans we have suffered for a very long time, but we need to start realizing that things have changed. With the leadership now in place the Bills are poised to become one of those four or five teams you look at as being “in the mix” each and every season. Who cares what the other teams do? And by the way, I loved the Bills-Fish rivalry of the 80s and 90s. If that returns, so be it. I do think the Dolphins are closer to being set up for longer term success at this point than either the Pats or the Jets that is I agree not a reason to be "worried." Bills fans need to be ready to adjust to being good. And while the Bills becoming one of those 4 or 5 perennial contender type teams is still dependant on further growth from Josh, the Dolphins future prospects of equally dependant on Tua who is yet to take an NFL snap. The old kings of the AFC East should be dethroned this season. The Bills are first in line to make a run at a reign over the division.
machine gun kelly Posted August 16, 2020 Posted August 16, 2020 7 hours ago, Warcodered said: Dolphins I worry about becoming a problem eventually this year though even without the Covid shortened offseason it was going to be a lot to ask for Flores to pull all those new pieces together in one season. Ive said already the Dolphins are the team that will improve, but this year might be a stretch. They had I think picks in the draft in the top 70. The problem is they gave away Tunsil, etc. and are banking their draft choices will replace these assets. I see with a real off season next year we will start our old rivalry again. That mess in NE is not fixable this year. Maybe they come back to a competitive team in 2021, but if they don’t Belicheck will retire and the NE nightmare is gone. The other three teams in the East are vulnerable and weak.
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