Josh Allen’s offense vs Sam Darnold’s offense

[Logic]

In reading about the Denzel Mims hamstring injury, I can’t help but reflect on how much better a position the Bills have put Josh Allen in that what the Jets have done for Darnold.

 

Josh Allen is going into the all-important year three with the same offensive coordinator and head coach, an offensive line returning 4 of 5 starters, and a WR corps of Stefon Diggs, John Brown, and Cole Beasley, with two promising young rookies waiting in the wings.

 

Sam Darnold is going into the all-important year three under his second head coach and third offensive coordinator. His offensive line will likely feature new starters at all five spots, several of whom are replacement level journeyman types. Their WR corps features Breshad Perriman, Denzel Mims, And Jamison Crowder. Gone are both Robby Anderson and Quincy Enunwa.

 

Whereas the Bills are counting on proven stud Stefon Diggs to be their number 1 receiver, the Jets are counting on...Perriman, I guess? 

 

Whereas the Bills can ease their rookie receivers along slowly and don’t need to count on them immediately, the Jets NEED their rookie WR to be good immediately or else their offense is in trouble. It’s hard for WRs to be mega-productive even in the best of circumstances, but counting on one to produce after missing time with injury and having no preseason is asking quite a lot.

 

For years, I watched the Bills put their young QBs in bad situations that sabotaged their development. For once, it’s nice to watch a division rival do the same, while the Bills do everything possible to build around their youngster.

 

Soooo glad I’m not a Jets fan. What they’re doing to Darnold is downright criminal.

[ColoradoBills]

[JohnNord]

17 minutes ago, Logic said:

In reading about the Denzel Mims hamstring injury, I can’t help but reflect on how much better a position the Bills have put Josh Allen in that what the Jets have done for Darnold.

 

Josh Allen is going into the all-important year three with the same offensive coordinator and head coach, an offensive line returning 4 of 5 starters, and a WR corps of Stefon Diggs, John Brown, and Cole Beasley, with two promising young rookies waiting in the wings.

 

Sam Darnold is going into the all-important year three under his second head coach and third offensive coordinator. His offensive line will likely feature new starters at all five spots, several of whom are replacement level journeyman types. Their WR corps features Breshad Perriman, Denzel Mims, And Jamison Crowder. Gone are both Robby Anderson and Quincy Enunwa.

 

Whereas the Bills are counting on proven stud Stefon Diggs to be their number 1 receiver, the Jets are counting on...Perriman, I guess? 

 

Whereas the Bills can ease their rookie receivers along slowly and don’t need to count on them immediately, the Jets NEED their rookie WR to be good immediately or else their offense is in trouble. It’s hard for WRs to be mega-productive even in the best of circumstances, but counting on one to produce after missing time with injury and having no preseason is asking quite a lot.

 

For years, I watched the Bills put their young QBs in bad situations that sabotaged their development. For once, it’s nice to watch a division rival do the same, while the Bills do everything possible to build around their youngster.

 

Soooo glad I’m not a Jets fan. What they’re doing to Darnold is downright criminal.

That’s the calculated risk Beane took.  He traded a first-round pick in exchange for a proven WR in Diggs.  

[MJS]

Yep. It would be nice to watch a strong offense. Hope they can pull it all together this year and actually have a good offense. It's nice having an elite defense, but it's just more fun when your offense is able to produce at a high level.

 

We have the pieces in place (although the offensive line is just average). If our offense can kick it into gear this will be an incredibly difficult team to beat.

[Don Otreply]

22 minutes ago, MJS said:

Yep. It would be nice to watch a strong offense. Hope they can pull it all together this year and actually have a good offense. It's nice having an elite defense, but it's just more fun when your offense is able to produce at a high level.

 

We have the pieces in place (although the offensive line is just average). If our offense can kick it into gear this will be an incredibly difficult team to beat.

Josh has his tools, we will see what he makes with them, ?

I think we will all be pleasantly surprised.

 

Go Bills!!!

[machine gun kelly]

MJS, you and I are usually on the same page, but as far as the O Line, there are a couple of guys who are not Bills homers I listen to and one is David Diehl who went to one Pro Bowl, part of two SB winning Giants teams and a pretty good analyst on NFLR.  He just rated this week the Bills as his 10th best O Line in the league and said continuity is a big plays in this years season.  He also referenced he probably would have put them up to maybe 7th if it were not for the Feliciano injury.  The guy is not a big Bills bandwagon guy, although he thinks we are going to win the East this year.

 

The other is this long time O Line coach, Paul Alexander of 35 years.  He thinks our O Line is going to be a top 10 line as well.  I’m with you they are not anywhere near top 5 like the Saints and others, but they will be decent if they can figure out all if the usual stuff whether Winters or not, Ford at G or RT, Williams, and so on.  I keep hearing over and over again walk through absolutely nothing for an O Line.  They need to hit each other and be in pads to improve.  Given we don’t have many padded practices in the league during camp, this should help our Beloved Bills.

 

As far as the rest, Logic, you make good points.  Can you imagine if Darnold held out after his 5th year and said screw this place and became the successor or after an in between on a team like the saints.  He would gain a great deal of respect around this league.  He just plays with crap talent, coaching, management (temporarily as I think Douglas could be good and probably can’t wait to can Gase), and ownership.  That won’t change.

[Billl]

They’re going to make a run at the first overall pick in the draft.  If that happens, they can keep Darnold for season 4 and likely trade him for a decent pick.  He could have a Drew Brees type career.

[GunnerBill]

20 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

MJS, you and I are usually on the same page, but as far as the O Line, there are a couple of guys who are not Bills homers I listen to and one is David Diehl who went to one Pro Bowl, part of two SB winning Giants teams and a pretty good analyst on NFLR.  He just rated this week the Bills as his 10th best O Line in the league and said continuity is a big plays in this years season.  He also referenced he probably would have put them up to maybe 7th if it were not for the Feliciano injury.  The guy is not a big Bills bandwagon guy, although he thinks we are going to win the East this year.

 

The other is this long time O Line coach, Paul Alexander of 35 years.  He thinks our O Line is going to be a top 10 line as well.  I’m with you they are not anywhere near top 5 like the Saints and others, but they will be decent if they can figure out all if the usual stuff whether Winters or not, Ford at G or RT, Williams, and so on.  I keep hearing over and over again walk through absolutely nothing for an O Line.  They need to hit each other and be in pads to improve.  Given we don’t have many padded practices in the league during camp, this should help our Beloved Bills.

 

As far as the rest, Logic, you make good points.  Can you imagine if Darnold held out after his 5th year and said screw this place and became the successor or after an in between on a team like the saints.  He would gain a great deal of respect around this league.  He just plays with crap talent, coaching, management (temporarily as I think Douglas could be good and probably can’t wait to can Gase), and ownership.  That won’t change.

 

If Spain and Morse produce equal to their career best form now they have a year in the system under their belts and they can figure out the right side combo the oline will be top 10. 

[Mickey]

45 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

Josh has his tools, we will see what he makes with them, ?

I think we will all be pleasantly surprised.

 

Go Bills!!!

 

I won't be surprised at all. I fully expect that a young QB with a weaponless offense that managed to get his team in to the play offs with two weeks to spare will continue his winning ways. I know there are some who spend every waking hour digging up stats to try and prove that he stinks and I imagine they will be surprised when he plays well this year. I won't.

[Logic]

I wanted to add that I was poking around on their message board just now and saw a poster state that the Jets roster is "even with the Bills" in all but the secondary and WR corps.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Logic said:

I wanted to add that I was poking around on their message board just now and saw a poster state that the Jets roster is "even with the Bills" in all but the secondary and WR corps.

 

We used to have similar posts here when our roster sucked. Fan does mean fanatic. It's easy to lie to oneself. 

 

In reality they have an argument at running back, if Bell actually performs, that their starter could be better, but their #2 is the guy we just let go. They have an argument at tight end. Herndon's rookie year was better than Knox's then his second year was destroyed by suspension and injury. I like both players a lot. I think Herndon's potential as a receiving tight end is higher than Dawson's but Dawson is a better all around prospect. Not saying they get to these levels, but to try and give a sense of the difference Herndon is Zac Ertz and Knox is Jason Witten. They have an argument at DT too but Ed was considerably better than Quinnen as rookies.... and unless he closes that gap that is advantage Bills. And finally, they have an argument at Quarterback. I think Sam has probably been a slightly more consistent passer at this stage but he hasn't been the playmaker that Josh has. I think they are reasonably similar in the fact they both need to take another step in 2020.... Josh is much better set up to given what Buffalo have put around him. 

 

 

[SCBills]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

We used to have similar posts here when our roster sucked. Fan does mean fanatic. It's easy to lie to oneself. 

 

In reality they have an argument at running back, if Bell actually performs, that their starter could be better, but their #2 is the guy we just let go. They have an argument at tight end. Herndon's rookie year was better than Knox's then his second year was destroyed by suspension and injury. I like both players a lot. I think Herndon's potential as a receiving tight end is higher than Dawson's but Dawson is a better all around prospect. Not saying they get to these levels, but to try and give a sense of the difference Herndon is Zac Ertz and Knox is Jason Witten. They have an argument at DT too but Ed was considerably better than Quinnen as rookies.... and unless he closes that gap that is advantage Bills. And finally, they have an argument at Quarterback. I think Sam has probably been a slightly more consistent passer at this stage but he hasn't been the playmaker that Josh has. I think they are reasonably similar in the fact they both need to take another step in 2020.... Josh is much better set up to given what Buffalo have put around him. 

 

 

Agreed.  I’m not as down on the Jets as others here.   At least not until we play them, and I see that the differences on paper equate to differences on the field. 
 

RB, QB, TE and Slot are all toss ups heading into the season on who gets the edge.. Bills vs Jets. 
 

OL, WR1, WR2.. clear edge to the Bills. 
 

On defense, they’ll have a stout front 7, even without Mosley, but that secondary is looking rough. 

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Agreed.  I’m not as down on the Jets as others here.   At least not until we play them, and I see that the differences on paper equate to differences on the field. 
 

RB, QB, TE and Slot are all toss ups heading into the season on who gets the edge.. Bills vs Jets. 
 

OL, WR1, WR2.. clear edge to the Bills. 
 

On defense, they’ll have a stout front 7, even without Mosley, but that secondary is looking rough. 

 

I'd take our linebackers ahead of theirs every day. Dline is closer... but linebacker is big advantage Bills IMO. You are right on slot receiver though. I'd actually give the Jets the slight edge there, but the Bills have a major advantage outside. 

Edited August 15, 2020 by GunnerBill

[SCBills]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

I'd take our linebackers ahead of theirs every day. Dline is closer... but linebacker is big advantage Bills IMO. You are right on slot receiver though. I'd actually give the Jets the slight edge there, but the Bills have a major advantage outside. 

Oh, yea, agreed.  

 

I like our DL and LB’s more as well, but just giving them a tip of the hat there.  
 

They always have a stout front 7, and I don’t see that changing this year.  

[eball]

1 minute ago, SCBills said:

Oh, yea, agreed.  

 

I like our DL and LB’s more as well, but just giving them a tip of the hat there.  
 

They always have a stout front 7, and I don’t see that changing this year.  

 

I see a ton of 11 from Daboll in this one, forcing them into nickel and taking major advantage of their DBs and LBs.

[Johnny Hammersticks]

As someone who draft L. Bell last year with my 1st round pick, it was infuriating watching him run into the back of his linemen, get knocked backward, and then try to dance around the edge.  He very rarely had good holes to run through.  Of course, this was very pleasing to see when the Jets played Buffalo.  

 

I expect Bell to have a crappy year, and Darnold to get his head kicked in.  Gotta have a solid offensive line and a good running game with a young QB.

[Warcodered]

The Jets are completely rebuilding their O-line kind of like we did last year though I just don't have as good a feeling about it as I did for us. An important part of what we did was our OL coach Bobby Johnson I think we might of struck gold with him not sure what the Jets have in that department.

[Logic]

55 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

We used to have similar posts here when our roster sucked. Fan does mean fanatic. It's easy to lie to oneself. 

 

In reality they have an argument at running back, if Bell actually performs, that their starter could be better, but their #2 is the guy we just let go. They have an argument at tight end. Herndon's rookie year was better than Knox's then his second year was destroyed by suspension and injury. I like both players a lot. I think Herndon's potential as a receiving tight end is higher than Dawson's but Dawson is a better all around prospect. Not saying they get to these levels, but to try and give a sense of the difference Herndon is Zac Ertz and Knox is Jason Witten. They have an argument at DT too but Ed was considerably better than Quinnen as rookies.... and unless he closes that gap that is advantage Bills. And finally, they have an argument at Quarterback. I think Sam has probably been a slightly more consistent passer at this stage but he hasn't been the playmaker that Josh has. I think they are reasonably similar in the fact they both need to take another step in 2020.... Josh is much better set up to given what Buffalo have put around him. 

 

 

Yeah. 

I'll say they are either even with the Bills or better than the Bills at QB, RB, and TE. The Jets can not reasonably claim that their offensive line is as good as Buffalo's since they have not yet seen them play. Even on a projection basis, though, I'm not very impressed with some of the players they brought in. I'm not convinced, for instance, that Van Roten will be an upgrade over Brian Winters. I'm also not convinced that George Fant will be a starting caliber RT, fi that's what they're counting on him to be.

As for the defense, I will concede that the Jets' interior DL is as good as or better than Buffalo's. That's about all I'll give them on defense. The Bills have superior edge rushers, linebackers, cornerbacks, and safeties. 

So the Jets, in my opinion, have a case at QB, RB, TE, and interior DL. In none of those cases do I feel like the Jets definitely have the edge, but they certainly MAY, and it's at least reasonable to say they're even. WR, Edge, ILB, OLB, CB, FS, SS...all Buffalo. 

Crucially, the units in which the Jets are lacking in talent -- offensive line, edge rushers, and cornerbacks -- are all CRITICAL to success in today's NFL. If you can't block, can't rush the passer, and can't cover the opposition's receivers, you're not going to win many ball games. So it's not just that they lack talent, it's that they lack talent at very important positions.

This is how I see it, at least.
 

14 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

The Jets are completely rebuilding their O-line kind of like we did last year though I just don't have as good a feeling about it as I did for us. An important part of what we did was our OL coach Bobby Johnson I think we might of struck gold with him not sure what the Jets have in that department.

I'm with you. I don't feel nearly as strongly about the players they brought in to rebuild their offensive line. They all seem like second tier guys to me. By contrast, Morse was a high quality acquisition and even Quinton Spain was/is better than the guards they've brought in, in my opinion.

 

 

43 minutes ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

As someone who draft L. Bell last year with my 1st round pick, it was infuriating watching him run into the back of his linemen, get knocked backward, and then try to dance around the edge.  He very rarely had good holes to run through.  Of course, this was very pleasing to see when the Jets played Buffalo.  

 

I expect Bell to have a crappy year, and Darnold to get his head kicked in.  Gotta have a solid offensive line and a good running game with a young QB.

Yep. The Jets did it exactly backwards: They're paying big money to their running back, but they've put a mediocre or worse offensive line in front of him. I'd much rather spend big money on the offensive line and then plug in a running back. I don't expect Bell to have a very good career as a New York Jet, at least until they convincingly improve their offensive line.

Edited August 15, 2020 by Logic

[SCBills]

5 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

The Jets are completely rebuilding their O-line kind of like we did last year though I just don't have as good a feeling about it as I did for us. An important part of what we did was our OL coach Bobby Johnson I think we might of struck gold with him not sure what the Jets have in that department.

Mekhi Becton is a boom/bust guy.  I don’t see anyway that dude is just average.  That said, he’s a rookie, and rookie OL typically struggle.  
 

McGovern is decent.  The rest of that OL is meh. 

[ghostwriter]

@Logic

 

Very nice post friend, very nice post.