Newton vs Allen and Pats vs Bills

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

Honestly, I think we are all maybe getting ahead of ourselves in thinking Cam even starts the season as their starting QB. You never know with New England.

[MJS]

13 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

MJS, serious question not critical.  Does Daboll really favor passing, or did he know last year he had a rookie, a 148 yr. old RB., and a mediocre RB, but good pass Cather in Yeldon?  I don’t know as maybe we are pleasantly surprised when he has Motor, Moss, and Yeldon, and probably continues to do some designated runs for Allen as it works.  Allen seems to get dinged up in the pocket occasionally, but I’ve felt good about him last year as he seemed to slide or run out of bounds a bit better than his rookie year.

 

Im guessing we end up as the second best running teams on the league probably again behind Baltimore.  TN will be close as Henry is a monster.  With all that said in running, we will also increase our passing yards significantly with Diggs, the other two and Davis when we need him.  Don’t sleep on that guy.  Watching him for as long as I have on UCF games as they are almost always on in Tampa throughout the college season.  Brandon Marshall was right.  He is an incredible route runner, and disguises his routes like no WR I’ve ever seen.  Mark my words in a couple of years as Beasley and Brown age as they are already 31 and 30, these guys will emerge.  Don’t get me wrong, I love Brown and Beasley, but the old Father Time never loses argument does make sense when they are 32-35.  We have these young guys on the cheap for four years.  That gets me excited for the future.

That's a good point. But Singletary was pretty awesome in the playoff game and then Daboll just stopped giving him the ball. If we run it more in the 2nd half we probably win that game.

6 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

Honestly, I think we are all maybe getting ahead of ourselves in thinking Cam even starts the season as their starting QB. You never know with New England.

I agree completely. I've been wondering as well if he even wins the job.

 

But I think it is safest to assume he will. But definately not conclusive.

[machine gun kelly]

MJS, well written, and to me the mistake was not Singletary and you’re right, we probably would have won had we kept riding him.  To me it was using Gore in the second half when Motor would have probably made those yards.  Not a Daboll basher, as he did a lot right, just frustrated when they throw out because they trust Gore with ball control, when we all could see he was worn out.  The season wore him down.  That’s why Gore will be nothing more than a leader for the Jets, but not a great performer, and Gase was looking for someone to back him up like Gore would vs. really contributing in the run game.

 

How about this, we’re both right. ?

[Billl]

1 hour ago, eball said:

 

I think it's easier to predict RB success than that.  RB is probably the easiest transition from college to the pros, and typically the only thing you hear that takes time to learn is picking up blitzes if they didn't have to do that in college.  Moss is a stud.

How many great RBs do you think will come out of last years draft?

[eball]

48 minutes ago, Billl said:

How many great RBs do you think will come out of last years draft?

Great? Who knows, but there will be plenty of good ones. 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Billl said:

How many great RBs do you think will come out of last years draft?

 

Jonathan Taylor. I think he will be great. Among the best vision I have ever seen. There are a handful of guys I think will be good (including Moss). 

[GreggTX]

If Cam is healthy, this isn't even a question. Allen is one the worst passers among starting QB's in the NFL. Cam was an MVP the last time he was healthy. No contest.

[Mr. WEO]

On 8/15/2020 at 9:20 AM, IgotBILLStopay said:

 

 

Amazing how after we fell behind in the playoff game - he kept us in it drive after drive.

 

 

 

Huh?

 

Bills were pitching a 3 score shutout until 2 minutes left in the 3rd Q.  After the D coughed up 19 straight points, Allen's subsequent drives ended on a sack/fumble, punt and turnover on downs.  

 

After he drove for the tying FG, his OT possession was 2 short runs, 7 passes (3 completions/29 yards) and a punt.

 

He has promise, but no need to make up a myth.

Edited August 16, 2020 by Mr. WEO

[Doc]

1 hour ago, GreggTX said:

If Cam is healthy, this isn't even a question. Allen is one the worst passers among starting QB's in the NFL. Cam was an MVP the last time he was healthy. No contest.

 

...based on completion percentage?  Might want to check Newton's completion rate for much of his career.  And that MVP year was eons ago in NFL time.

[TigerJ]

On 8/15/2020 at 8:37 AM, Inigo Montoya said:

 

Yep, that’s why they brought in Lamar Miller. Not sure if Michel will be ready for Week 1, but he shouldn’t miss much time.

Michael thinks it's possible or even likely Michel ends up on PUP to start the season, in which case he would miss the first half of the season.  That may be why the Pats signed Lamar Miller.  https://patriotswire.usatoday.com/2020/08/14/michael-lombardi-explains-why-sony-michel-may-miss-half-the-season/

[IgotBILLStopay]

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Huh?

 

Bills were pitching a 3 score shutout until 2 minutes left in the 3rd Q.  After the D coughed up 19 straight points, Allen's subsequent drives ended on a sack/fumble, punt and turnover on downs.  

 

After he drove for the tying FG, his OT possession was 2 short runs, 7 passes (3 completions/29 yards) and a punt.

 

He has promise, but no need to make up a myth.

oh I am talking after we fell behind 16-19. Didn’t JA’s drives bring us to the Texans 25, 28 and 42 yard line and put us in scoring position (esp. the first two drives)? That shows he is a gamer without quit. There is a reason he leads the league in game winning drives the past two years. He is not perfect as you note. I was just pointing out the heart part of his game.

[John from Riverside]

I dont agree that the Pats RB's and OL is better then the bills

 

Not only do I think the starters are better top to bottom but the backups to those starters are better.....we now have backups that would start for other teams

[JESSEFEFFER]

4 hours ago, GreggTX said:

If Cam is healthy, this isn't even a question. Allen is one the worst passers among starting QB's in the NFL. Cam was an MVP the last time he was healthy. No contest.

Cam had seasons in 2013, 2014 and 2017 that looked very much like Josh's did in 2019.  If you can point to anything in those years that Cam did better than Josh I'd be happy to discuss it.   

 

Cam played all 16 in 2017 so reaching all the way back to 2015 in an attempt to define what a healthy 2020 might look like is cherry picking at its finest.

 

I'd say the biggest difference I see is their reputations heading into those seasons.  So what you say is no contest I'd say looks like nearly identical production.

[Ghost_002!]

I do not think losing scarnecchia is going to be a big deal. They have won a SB without him. Like I said, the head of the snake is still attached. Forget their roster. Pay attention to their coaching staff.

 

Bill are formidable for this division. So are the pats especially if Cam is half of what he was...

 

[John from Riverside]

5 minutes ago, Ghost_002! said:

I do not think losing scarnecchia is going to be a big deal. They have won a SB without him. Like I said, the head of the snake is still attached. Forget their roster. Pay attention to their coaching staff.

 

Bill are formidable for this division. So are the pats especially if Cam is half of what he was...

 

We should hope their coaching staff is good.....we dont want the pats picking in the top of next year's draft.......the best case scenario is now they go through years of futility being a middling team.....and BB decides to hang them up

[P Riv]

On 8/15/2020 at 6:06 AM, Inigo Montoya said:

1.) QB Rushing:   Advantage Bills/ Allen. 

2.) System Knowledge:  Advantage Bills/Allen.  

3.) Coaching:  Advantage Pats/Cam.  

4.) Receiving Corps:  Advantage Bills/Allen.  

5.) Running Backs:  Advantage Pats/Cam.  

6.) Offensive Line:  Advantage Pats/Cam.   

7.) QB Passing:   Advantage Pats/Cam. 

8.) Defense:  Advantage Bills/Allen.   

 

Great analysis, but I think you are overlooking how Belichick goes about the match ups.  In number 2, their "system" is to adapt to the strengths of the players they have.  Cam Newton is a completely different animal than Brady, so their "system" is going to be a pretty much unknown to us and will give them an advantage.  They have loaded up on RBs, FBs and versatile tight ends.  My guess is that they play ball control to protect that young/rookie linebacking corps until they can acclimate.  

Also, defensively the Pats have loaded up on the personnel they need to negate our strengths.  They have possibly the best secondary in the league and they have athletic guys on the edge to go along with big D linemen.  Looks to me like they will double Diggs, contain Allen in the pocket and force him to hold the ball.  We'll have to run effectively against them or somehow be unpredictable.  

I agree that it looks like a split with them (at this early point), likely close games, down to the wire.  

 

[Ghost_002!]

1 hour ago, P Riv said:

 

Great analysis, but I think you are overlooking how Belichick goes about the match ups.  In number 2, their "system" is to adapt to the strengths of the players they have.  Cam Newton is a completely different animal than Brady, so their "system" is going to be a pretty much unknown to us

 

I agree that it looks like a split with them (at this early point), likely close games, down to the wire.  

 

 

 

This completely. 

Edited August 17, 2020 by Ghost_002!

[ColoradoBills]

4 hours ago, P Riv said:

 

Great analysis, but I think you are overlooking how Belichick goes about the match ups.  In number 2, their "system" is to adapt to the strengths of the players they have.  Cam Newton is a completely different animal than Brady, so their "system" is going to be a pretty much unknown to us and will give them an advantage.  They have loaded up on RBs, FBs and versatile tight ends.  My guess is that they play ball control to protect that young/rookie linebacking corps until they can acclimate.  

Also, defensively the Pats have loaded up on the personnel they need to negate our strengths.  They have possibly the best secondary in the league and they have athletic guys on the edge to go along with big D linemen.  Looks to me like they will double Diggs, contain Allen in the pocket and force him to hold the ball.  We'll have to run effectively against them or somehow be unpredictable.  

I agree that it looks like a split with them (at this early point), likely close games, down to the wire.  

 

 

Bills don't play the Pats* until November 1st.  There will be plenty of tape by then to see what their new "system" will be.

 

Who is going to start for them at TE and FB for them?  Looks like a bunch of rookies/JAGs.

[P Riv]

9 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Bills don't play the Pats* until November 1st.  There will be plenty of tape by then to see what their new "system" will be.

 

Who is going to start for them at TE and FB for them?  Looks like a bunch of rookies/JAGs.

 

I didn't check the schedule, so that later in the season match up is good for us (injuries pending of course).  FB for them looks like that German dude, forget the name (Jakob...?) with a couple of their TE's as H-backs.  Their run game works very well with a FB, doesn't work without one as last season showed.  They lost both FB's to injury last year, guessing that doesn't happen again.

 

[Ghost_002!]

And historically BBs teams get better later in the season. It would be better to play them earlier