Doc Posted August 27, 2020 Posted August 27, 2020 1 hour ago, GunnerBill said: He is getting $13.5m in new money this year. $7m counts against this year's cap. That is the point. There is the contract and then there is the cap accounting. The two are different. Every contract has cap accounting. That he received $13.5M in new money and $7M of it is tacked-onto what he was scheduled to make this year means it's effectively a 5-year deal. 1 hour ago, BarleyNY said: 5 years total deal or a 4 year extension, depending on how you want to look at it. It’s pretty common to do deals like this at Thai point. Player gets some cash early and team locks him up early. The player gets a lucrative deal and security, but doesn’t maximize his earning like he could if he forced a franchise tag. I don’t have any issue with the length and value of the deal, but I wonder why the Bills chose to do a roster bonus for so much rather than making it all a signing bonus. Not a huge deal, but I would have preferred them to keep the additional flexibility of doing that. They had the cap room this year to accommodate the roster bonus and that reduces the amortized signing bonus they otherwise would have had to pay.
billsfan89 Posted August 27, 2020 Posted August 27, 2020 17 hours ago, ColoradoBills said: Definitely, and a nice job by Dion and his agent. All these decent contracts need compromise and that seems like a good thing to me. Dawkins could have gotten more money if he played out the 2020 season well and the cap doesn't take too bad of a hit. BUT the Bills got him to take a "friendly" deal in two ways. One is that players who have one year left always are willing to take a little bit less than they would make in free agency to avoid injury risk. Dawkins could have played in 2020 and gotten a bad injury and been stuck on a one year "prove it" deal. Taking the money now is always a luxury that you pay for a bit. Secondly the cap volatility is a factor to an agent possibly advising a client to take the bag. The Bills finally have the luxury of high performing players with a year or two left on their rookie deals in a winning situation as leverage. In a bad situation players were more willing to want to be traded/hold out (Peters) or get paid top dollar to stay (Evans, Fitz, Mcgee, Glenn, or many others) or take a risk to get out on a big deal in a better situation (Byrd and Levitre.) Now high end players are willing to take a decent discount because they have performed early in the contract and the team is viewed as a winning situation.
BarleyNY Posted August 27, 2020 Posted August 27, 2020 1 hour ago, GunnerBill said: I think paying a big roster bonus does keep the flexibility. It means you are prorating less into future years. They could feasibly get out 2 years into the 4 year extension if they needed to. With carryover it’s better to defer with a signing rather than a roster bonus. Think about it this way: Let’s say $5M of Dawkins’ roster bonus was changed to a signing bonus on his 5 year deal. With the roster bonus the team take the full hit this season. With it as a signing bonus they would have taken a $1M hit this season and carried $4M over to 2021. Then $1M would come off each season until all $5M is accounted for. There is typically the added bonus for the team that the $1M each year would be discounted by the percentage the cap would rise. Next year might have a decrease, but it would still be a help overall - and it would have given us more space next season. The argument that if he’s cut before the end of the deal that the team would take a bigger hit misses the fact that the team would have already carried that much cap space forward
GunnerBill Posted August 27, 2020 Posted August 27, 2020 2 hours ago, Doc said: Every contract has cap accounting. That he received $13.5M in new money and $7M of it is tacked-onto what he was scheduled to make this year means it's effectively a 5-year deal. I don't care for "effectively". It is factually a 4 year deal..
Doc Posted August 27, 2020 Posted August 27, 2020 1 hour ago, GunnerBill said: I don't care for "effectively". It is factually a 4 year deal.. Likewise for "factually," especially when the facts are that he was paid $13M of that contract upon signing and $7M of it is being charged to this year's cap.
ColoradoBills Posted August 27, 2020 Posted August 27, 2020 3 hours ago, billsfan89 said: Dawkins could have gotten more money if he played out the 2020 season well and the cap doesn't take too bad of a hit. BUT the Bills got him to take a "friendly" deal in two ways. One is that players who have one year left always are willing to take a little bit less than they would make in free agency to avoid injury risk. Dawkins could have played in 2020 and gotten a bad injury and been stuck on a one year "prove it" deal. Taking the money now is always a luxury that you pay for a bit. Secondly the cap volatility is a factor to an agent possibly advising a client to take the bag. The Bills finally have the luxury of high performing players with a year or two left on their rookie deals in a winning situation as leverage. In a bad situation players were more willing to want to be traded/hold out (Peters) or get paid top dollar to stay (Evans, Fitz, Mcgee, Glenn, or many others) or take a risk to get out on a big deal in a better situation (Byrd and Levitre.) Now high end players are willing to take a decent discount because they have performed early in the contract and the team is viewed as a winning situation. If members of this board truly listened to the realistic paths that both players and management need to wade through in "real life" there probably would be a lot less "tension" when it comes to these topics. You did a great job in listing a lot of the the considerations that both sides have to take into account!
Aussie Joe Posted August 27, 2020 Posted August 27, 2020 Is the argument over whether it’s a 4 or 5 year deal primarily over the fact we can feel better that “we” didn’t overpay him?
GunnerBill Posted August 27, 2020 Posted August 27, 2020 1 hour ago, Doc said: Likewise for "factually," especially when the facts are that he was paid $13M of that contract upon signing and $7M of it is being charged to this year's cap. Welcome to the modern world. But facts matter.
Doc Posted August 28, 2020 Posted August 28, 2020 1 hour ago, GunnerBill said: Welcome to the modern world. But facts matter. Yeah and I just gave them.
Warcodered Posted August 28, 2020 Posted August 28, 2020 2 hours ago, Aussie Joe said: Is the argument over whether it’s a 4 or 5 year deal primarily over the fact we can feel better that “we” didn’t overpay him? Pretty sure at this point it's got to about someone's favorite number being "4" and someone else's being "5".
Doc Posted August 28, 2020 Posted August 28, 2020 2 hours ago, Aussie Joe said: Is the argument over whether it’s a 4 or 5 year deal primarily over the fact we can feel better that “we” didn’t overpay him? 1 minute ago, Warcodered said: Pretty sure at this point it's got to about someone's favorite number being "4" and someone else's being "5". How many more years is he signed for and did he get a decent amount of money from the extension this year?
GunnerBill Posted August 28, 2020 Posted August 28, 2020 5 hours ago, Doc said: How many more years is he signed for and did he get a decent amount of money from the extension this year? More years? 4. He was signed for 1 before and he signed for 4 more. It is 4 years $58.3m. You can pretend it is whatever makes you feel good. But those are the facts.
Stank_Nasty Posted August 28, 2020 Posted August 28, 2020 https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/29745286/nfl-execs-pick-most-underrated-players-2020-cooper-kupp-jonnu-smith-dion-dawkins-more Discussing the best players in the game with NFL evaluators always elicits a few surprises. There are the obvious superstars, then there are the players who elicit an "oh, really?" Our summer project ranking the top 10 players at each position -- with help from nearly 60 NFL execs, coaches, players and scouts -- produced several players who might not be top tier yet but are poised to get there soon. This is where the strength of rosters truly comes to life. No team can touch the top-end talent of the New Orleans Saints, who have nine top-10 players on our lists, with the Kansas City Chiefs and Dallas Cowboys trailing with six apiece. But teams such as the Buffalo Bills, Minnesota Vikings and Green Bay Packers dominated the 11-to-15 range, which is an ode to their impressive balance overall. For every $100 million player, there's a low-key riser on a rookie deal who doesn't resonate with the casual fan but is a legitimate weapon in the eyes of the league's coaches and decision-makers as well as their peers. Here are some of those players. Dion Dawkins, OT, Buffalo Bills Landing a four-year, $60 million contract this month gave Dawkins the kind of attention he was already receiving from many NFL people. Dawkins' name came up several times in conversation about the game's best tackles. Inconsistency is the knock. But once he cleans that up, watch out. "He's got everything -- nimble feet, anchor, punch," said an NFC exec. "Can be premier." Dawkins earned a respectable 73.4 Pro Football Focus grade last season, but expect that to rise in his fourth year as he gets more comfortable in Brian Daboll's system 2 1
Doc Posted August 28, 2020 Posted August 28, 2020 10 hours ago, GunnerBill said: More years? 4. He was signed for 1 before and he signed for 4 more. It is 4 years $58.3m. You can pretend it is whatever makes you feel good. But those are the facts. Yes, 4 more years added onto the final year of his rookie contract. And $7M of that $58.3M is being charged to this year. It's not hard to figure out.
GunnerBill Posted August 28, 2020 Posted August 28, 2020 5 minutes ago, Doc said: Yes, 4 more years added onto the final year of his rookie contract. And $7M of that $58.3M is being charged to this year. It's not hard to figure out. I agree it really isn't. Where the Bills account for money on the cap is different from the contract. The contract is 4 years, $58.3m. If you want to see it as a five year deal because it is cap friendly in the sense that it allows the Bills to spread the hit, fine - and you would be right. But it is factually a 4 year contract.
Doc Posted August 28, 2020 Posted August 28, 2020 4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I agree it really isn't. Where the Bills account for money on the cap is different from the contract. The contract is 4 years, $58.3m. If you want to see it as a five year deal because it is cap friendly in the sense that it allows the Bills to spread the hit, fine - and you would be right. But it is factually a 4 year contract. Fair enough.
without a drought Posted August 29, 2020 Posted August 29, 2020 23 hours ago, Warcodered said: Pretty sure at this point it's got to about someone's favorite number being "4" and someone else's being "5". It might be an odd and even thing. 1
Warcodered Posted August 29, 2020 Posted August 29, 2020 7 hours ago, GunnerBill said: I agree it really isn't. Where the Bills account for money on the cap is different from the contract. The contract is 4 years, $58.3m. If you want to see it as a five year deal because it is cap friendly in the sense that it allows the Bills to spread the hit, fine - and you would be right. But it is factually a 4 year contract. I mean isn't a contract extension by definition a modification to the contract. So his current contract would be for 5 years. Or are you saying he's on one contract for one year and second one for the next four?
GunnerBill Posted August 29, 2020 Posted August 29, 2020 7 hours ago, Warcodered said: I mean isn't a contract extension by definition a modification to the contract. So his current contract would be for 5 years. Or are you saying he's on one contract for one year and second one for the next four? Yes that is what I am saying. Sometimes a team will rip up the final year of a rookie deal when they sign a guy long term. That isn't what has happened here you can tell that by the fact his base salary for 2020 is unchanged. The second contract will just follow on from the first. Where bonus money sits is just a cap issue for the team. That isn't something that really matters to Dawkins and his agent. They got paid $13.5m the day the contract was signed. That the Bills want to account for $7m of that on the final year of the old deal is neither here or there to Dawkins.
Doc Posted August 29, 2020 Posted August 29, 2020 14 hours ago, Warcodered said: I mean isn't a contract extension by definition a modification to the contract. So his current contract would be for 5 years. Or are you saying he's on one contract for one year and second one for the next four? You could look at it as a 1-year $8.166M deal followed by a 4-year $51.465M ($12.866M/year) deal. Or as a 5-year $59.631M deal. ?
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