GunnerBill Posted August 16, 2020 Posted August 16, 2020 3 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: You may be right. My opinion is that if you asked McBeane, they would not agree with you, because Beane's cap management strategy can't afford three max contracts at what are three of the four highest paid positions (edge being the fourth). I think Beane has to stretch his system too much to write three of those contracts. I suspect that if you could have a completely frank conversation with Belichick and Brady, they would tell you that they talked about the fact that Revis got a max contract and Brady didn't. I believe Brady accepted that fact because he knew he was going to get very good money for a very long time, and it was worth it to him to let Revis get great money for a short time in order to have the defense that would help Brady win. Beane doesn't have that luxury with White, because Beane doesn't know yet whether Josh is the guy he needs for the long-term, and he doesn't know if Josh will give the Bills the kind of discount that will allow Beane the luxury of spending big on a corner. If I'm right about a lot of things, in a few years Josh will be a star and he will work for millions less than he could get in the open market. That's when Beane will be able to afford to pay top dollar for the best corner back. As I said before, I think if White insists on the best money, Beane will let him walk just like McDermott let Gilmore work. When the future is set, when the right QB and the right MLB are in place with their contracts, that's when Beane will know if he can write really big checks for another position. I expect Beane will have the discipline to insist on a team-friendly deal with White. White will not be allowed to walk and he will reset the market when he signs. I am absolutely convinced on both. 1
Shaw66 Posted August 16, 2020 Posted August 16, 2020 2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: White will not be allowed to walk and he will reset the market when he signs. I am absolutely convinced on both. I am not "absolutely convinced," of my view, particularly when I hear your view. My guess is that he will stay with the Bills but he will not reset the market in the way that mean. That is, I think White will take a deal that is some measure team-friendly and will not become the unquestionable highest or second highest paid corner.
Warcodered Posted August 16, 2020 Posted August 16, 2020 5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: White will not be allowed to walk and he will reset the market when he signs. I am absolutely convinced on both. Just now, Shaw66 said: I am not "absolutely convinced," of my view, particularly when I hear your view. My guess is that he will stay with the Bills but he will not reset the market in the way that mean. That is, I think White will take a deal that is some measure team-friendly and will not become the unquestionable highest or second highest paid corner. Listening to him when he was talking about his decision on whether to opt out or not and how important it was for him to be able to set things up to take care of his entire family while sacrificing time he could spend with his family I think he probably does reset the market wherever he signs. 1
Penfield45 Posted August 16, 2020 Posted August 16, 2020 glad we didn't overpay but Ive never been a fan of Dawkins. I always assumed we'd draft a franchise LT next season to replace him. he is nowhere good enough to be a franchise guy here but guess we will see.
HappyDays Posted August 16, 2020 Posted August 16, 2020 11 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: As I said before, I think if White insists on the best money, Beane will let him walk just like McDermott let Gilmore work. They let Gilmore walk because it was year zero of the new regime and Gilmore was not a scheme fit for McDermott's defense. He wasn't ready to give out any huge contracts before getting the lay of the land. Now it is year 3 of the regime and they are trying to create a long term championship caliber team. White is a culture fit and the best player on the team. They won't let him walk and there's been no indication he would take a discount. They have been conservative with the cap for 3 years so that they could afford top end contracts when the time came. Dawkins isn't really a good comparison because he isn't arguably the best in the league at his position. They aren't saving money for a DE because edge rusher isn't as important in McDermott's scheme. I still hope we get a top pass rusher some day but Oliver is his key defensive line player. His philosophy is get pressure up the middle, hold the edge, get a rangy MLB and zone corners to lock down passing windows. White, Edmunds, and Oliver are the cornerstone players on defense and they will all get paid when it's their turn. Everyone else around them is replaceable. 3
Logic Posted August 16, 2020 Posted August 16, 2020 8 minutes ago, HappyDays said: His philosophy is get pressure up the middle, hold the edge, get a rangy MLB and zone corners to lock down passing windows. White, Edmunds, and Oliver are the cornerstone players on defense and they will all get paid when it's their turn. Everyone else around them is replaceable. I agree with this. If if it’s true that a team can afford 6-7 big contracts on their team — and that DOES seem to be the case around the league — I see Oliver, White, and Edmunds on defense and Allen (hopefully), Diggs, And TBD on offense. For now, it’s Dawkins, but he’s not making huge, prohibitive money. Everyone else is mix ‘n’ match.
GunnerBill Posted August 16, 2020 Posted August 16, 2020 15 minutes ago, HappyDays said: They let Gilmore walk because it was year zero of the new regime and Gilmore was not a scheme fit for McDermott's defense. He wasn't ready to give out any huge contracts before getting the lay of the land. Now it is year 3 of the regime and they are trying to create a long term championship caliber team. White is a culture fit and the best player on the team. They won't let him walk and there's been no indication he would take a discount. They have been conservative with the cap for 3 years so that they could afford top end contracts when the time came. Dawkins isn't really a good comparison because he isn't arguably the best in the league at his position. They aren't saving money for a DE because edge rusher isn't as important in McDermott's scheme. I still hope we get a top pass rusher some day but Oliver is his key defensive line player. His philosophy is get pressure up the middle, hold the edge, get a rangy MLB and zone corners to lock down passing windows. White, Edmunds, and Oliver are the cornerstone players on defense and they will all get paid when it's their turn. Everyone else around them is replaceable. If they let White walk it will be a mistake. 1
C.Biscuit97 Posted August 16, 2020 Posted August 16, 2020 Happy for my Eskimo bro. ? not sure if he’ll ever be elite but he’s super tough and a great character guy who works his butt off. The team is better for having a guy like him. He should be a team captain. Congrats. 1 1
Shaw66 Posted August 16, 2020 Posted August 16, 2020 1 hour ago, Logic said: I agree with this. If if it’s true that a team can afford 6-7 big contracts on their team — and that DOES seem to be the case around the league — I see Oliver, White, and Edmunds on defense and Allen (hopefully), Diggs, And TBD on offense. For now, it’s Dawkins, but he’s not making huge, prohibitive money. Everyone else is mix ‘n’ match. 6-7 big contracts was Whaley's philosophy. He said so when they extended Cordy Glenn. Three on offense, three on defense. And yes, many teams do that, but not all. It is definitely not Belichick's philosophy. He never has six big contracts. I also think it is not Beane's philosophy, but we will see. 1
GunnerBill Posted August 16, 2020 Posted August 16, 2020 22 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: 6-7 big contracts was Whaley's philosophy. He said so when they extended Cordy Glenn. Three on offense, three on defense. And yes, many teams do that, but not all. It is definitely not Belichick's philosophy. He never has six big contracts. I also think it is not Beane's philosophy, but we will see. If we are talking Belichick though Shaw the one position he does pay, consistently, is secondary. Gilmore, McCourty, Revis etc. I agree though that his model has generally been 3 or 4 big contracts and then a lot of guys in that mid range.
Doc Posted August 16, 2020 Posted August 16, 2020 1 minute ago, GunnerBill said: If we are talking Belichick though Shaw the one position he does pay, consistently, is secondary. Gilmore, McCourty, Revis etc. I agree though that his model has generally been 3 or 4 big contracts and then a lot of guys in that mid range. He could afford to do that in the past. The future will be another story entirely.
3rdand12 Posted August 16, 2020 Posted August 16, 2020 2 hours ago, GunnerBill said: White will not be allowed to walk and he will reset the market when he signs. I am absolutely convinced on both. i have to agree.
3rdand12 Posted August 16, 2020 Posted August 16, 2020 2 hours ago, Shaw66 said: I am not "absolutely convinced," of my view, particularly when I hear your view. My guess is that he will stay with the Bills but he will not reset the market in the way that mean. That is, I think White will take a deal that is some measure team-friendly and will not become the unquestionable highest or second highest paid corner. if he does reset it ? I am okay and expect it. If he comes in a tad lower? I will be an even bigger fan of his : )
Shaw66 Posted August 16, 2020 Posted August 16, 2020 Just now, GunnerBill said: If we are talking Belichick though Shaw the one position he does pay, consistently, is secondary. Gilmore, McCourty, Revis etc. I agree though that his model has generally been 3 or 4 big contracts and then a lot of guys in that mid range. Yes, he does do that. It is consistent. He builds his defensive philosophy on a the shut-down corner, because that gives him ultimate flexibility with the other 10 players. I don't think McDermott has the same philosophy. His philosophy is up-the-field strength. His first year, his philosophy was signaled by trading Gilmore for Hyde and Poyer. His philosophy is signaled by Keuchly and Edmunds. I agree the defensive philosophies are different. What we'll see as they deal with contracts for White, Edmunds, and Allen, is whether Beane subscribes to the six-big-contracts theory or Belichick's two-or-three-stars-and-spread-the-rest-of-the-money-around theory.
3rdand12 Posted August 16, 2020 Posted August 16, 2020 I think this sets the example for how they treat key Draft picks who work their tail off to succeed. another year next to Spain will help the left side improve on what they were building last year.
Logic Posted August 16, 2020 Posted August 16, 2020 2 hours ago, GunnerBill said: If they let White walk it will be a mistake. Yep. Don’t let 24-year-old All-Pros at premium positions (who are also exemplary locker room, culture, and community fits) walk out the door. Aside from it being a huge asset ON the field, it’s also important that Beane sets the example that guys who go about their business like Tre get paid. The first pick of the McDermott era. Best player on the team. You pay that man.
GunnerBill Posted August 16, 2020 Posted August 16, 2020 20 minutes ago, Doc said: He could afford to do that in the past. The future will be another story entirely. May very well be.
Buddo Posted August 16, 2020 Posted August 16, 2020 It's an interesting proposition. Traditionally, Cover CBs weren't getting paid the same as man CBs. However, in todays NFL, flexibility seems to be the byword. That flexibility means that White may well get paid, because it affords McDermott more system flexibility, similarly to Belicheck, but not in the same ways. White lets McDermott do a lot of other things, in his system. Principle being the same, execution different. Imho, White will get paid, providing he keeps his head down and keeps working. It goes too much against the overall philosophy of Beane and McDermott, for that not to happen, unless White's demands are astronomical. I don't think they will be, as I think he's a level headed guy. He won't settle for much under the market, if at all, but I don't eel he thinks he has to set the market. I think he'll get serious money, that will probably have more guaranteed than expected, yet less overall. All of which is supposition. 1
GunnerBill Posted August 16, 2020 Posted August 16, 2020 14 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: Yes, he does do that. It is consistent. He builds his defensive philosophy on a the shut-down corner, because that gives him ultimate flexibility with the other 10 players. I don't think McDermott has the same philosophy. His philosophy is up-the-field strength. His first year, his philosophy was signaled by trading Gilmore for Hyde and Poyer. His philosophy is signaled by Keuchly and Edmunds. I agree the defensive philosophies are different. What we'll see as they deal with contracts for White, Edmunds, and Allen, is whether Beane subscribes to the six-big-contracts theory or Belichick's two-or-three-stars-and-spread-the-rest-of-the-money-around theory. Not sure I agree. I think his Bills defenses have been built back to front. He is a defensive backs coach at heart. In Carolina they didn't pay DBs but I think that was Gettleman who followed the same approach in New York letting go of early picks Eli Apple and Landon Collins for example. 4 minutes ago, Logic said: Yep. Don’t let 24-year-old All-Pros at premium positions (who are also exemplary locker room, culture, and community fits) walk out the door. Aside from it being a huge asset ON the field, it’s also important that Beane sets the example that guys who go about their business like Tre get paid. The first pick of the McDermott era. Best player on the team. You pay that man. Totally agree.
Shaw66 Posted August 16, 2020 Posted August 16, 2020 12 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Not sure I agree. I think his Bills defenses have been built back to front. He is a defensive backs coach at heart. In Carolina they didn't pay DBs but I think that was Gettleman who followed the same approach in New York letting go of early picks Eli Apple and Landon Collins for example. Fair enough. We'll know in the next few months. If the Bills extend his contract, we will know when we see the contract. If they exercise the fifth-year option, it will probably mean White wants top dollar and the Bills were reluctant to give it to him.
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