Breaking news: Dawkins signs four year deal worth $60 mill

[njbuff]

1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

 

McD used Whaley's Team's scouting reports and player analysis. It was the info and guidance Whales gave him that allowed him to make those picks.

 

 

McDermott had the final say so.

 

Whaley was abysmal. 

 

Also, remember he said that Manuel had "it".

 

 

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

15 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said:

Perhaps it has been mentioned already but....

Dawkins was picked in the last draft run by Whaley, correct ? So the 2017 draft produced Tre White, Dawkins and Milano. For all the flack he gets, Whaley should be acknoweldged for his final draft which produced 3 solid starters. 

The Weasel and Whaley are the main reason for 20 years of hell. Whaleys ability to evaluate the most important position in football was horrid. Whaley was really bad at evaluating offensive positions in general and I thought he was a horrible GM. No team even offered him a deal when the Bills released him, that right there tells you just how bad Whaley was. Not one NLF team even offed him a job with all the bad GM's that are currently employed on NFL teams, that means Whaley was really bad. Whaleys press conferences where unbearable to watch. I really think McD was the main guy pulling the strings in that draft, there is no way that you give a GM that you are about to fire full power in that draft and to be honest I don't think Whaley ever had the true power as a GM. He was treated like a elevated scout with slight veto power. Whaley $*&^%$ ass. 

[Doc]

32 minutes ago, njbuff said:

Don't let anyone fool you, it was all McDermott as everyone knew Whaley was about to be shown the door.

 

They didn't fire Whaley in typical fashion, but we knew he was out the door nonetheless.

 

29 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

McD used Whaley's Team's scouting reports and player analysis. It was the info and guidance Whales gave him that allowed him to make those picks.

 

Curious to see who Whaley would have taken at 10 if he ran the draft.

[GunnerBill]

37 minutes ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

The Weasel and Whaley are the main reason for 20 years of hell. 

 

Whaley? He wasn't GM until 2013. He had had two years as Assistant before that. Hard to put 20 years on him. 

[DrDawkinstein]

16 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

 

Curious to see who Whaley would have taken at 10 if he ran the draft.

 

He's been on record shortly after the draft (firing) saying Watson was his pick.

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

8 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Whaley? He wasn't GM until 2013. He had had two years as Assistant before that. Hard to put 20 years on him. 

He's the kind of bad where it felt like 20 years

[Shaw66]

3 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

He's been on record shortly after the draft (firing) saying Watson was his pick.

Well, so much for Whaley not knowing what he was doing. 

 

Or was it some linebacker named Watson?  

 

Anyway, I'm not into blaming people.  Those years were horrible, whoever was responsible. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

23 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Even a broken clock is right twice a day 

 

So what does your clock tell you about Milano and Tre White?

[eball]

1 hour ago, njbuff said:

Also, remember he said that Manuel had "it"

You can’t really say he lied; he just didn’t clarify what “it” was. Turns out he was talking about EJ’s ability to draw defenses Offside with a hard count. 

[Kirby Jackson]

34 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

So what does your clock tell you about Milano and Tre White?

As long as we are guessing:

Milano - 4 years and $48M

Tre - 5 years and $100M

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

As long as we are guessing:

Milano - 4 years and $48M

Tre - 5 years and $100M

 

Think they are both in the ballpark. Jalen Ramsey is the one to watch for Tre. He will completely reset the market. The Eagles made Slay the top paid guy at $16.6 per year. Ramsey will be above $18m for sure. He could get to $20m. If I am Tre's people I want more than Ramsey gets. 

[Kirby Jackson]

10 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Think they are both in the ballpark. Jalen Ramsey is the one to watch for Tre. He will completely reset the market. The Eagles made Slay the top paid guy at $16.6 per year. Ramsey will be above $18m for sure. He could get to $20m. If I am Tre's people I want more than Ramsey gets. 

I don’t think Tre signs unless it resets the market. It’s as much about the optics as anything. I don’t think that Tre really cares if the AAV is $19.99M or $20.01M. If Jalen signs at exactly $20M though you can bet that is the dealbreaker. I don’t think you could get Tre for less than $18M today. That’s the floor. You are looking at an AAV between $18M - $22M depending on Ramsey. That’s why I went right in the middle.

Edited August 14, 2020 by Kirby Jackson

[ColoradoBills]

27 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I don’t think Tre signs unless it resets the market. It’s as much about the optics as anything. I don’t think that Tre really cares if the AAV is $19.99M or $20.01M. If Jalen signs at exactly $20M though you can bet that is the dealbreaker. I don’t think you could get Tre for less than $18M today. That’s the floor. You are looking at an AAV between $18M - $22M depending on Ramsey. That’s why I went right in the middle.

 

Wow, FWIW I just looked at LAR's free agents next year and cap space.  They have little money and Ramsey, Kupp and Floyd to sign!

[ghostwriter]

4 hours ago, njbuff said:

 

McDermott had the final say so.

 

Whaley was abysmal. 

 

Also, remember he said that Manuel had "it".

 

 

Dude, Manuel was 6’5 240lbs and he had 10 inch hands.

[Shaw66]

On 8/14/2020 at 4:16 PM, GunnerBill said:

 

Think they are both in the ballpark. Jalen Ramsey is the one to watch for Tre. He will completely reset the market. The Eagles made Slay the top paid guy at $16.6 per year. Ramsey will be above $18m for sure. He could get to $20m. If I am Tre's people I want more than Ramsey gets. 

I've really lost interest in analyzing deals and contracts, so I don't have anything to add about the details that Tre might expect.   

 

I will, however, say this:  I may be wrong, but it seems pretty clear to me that the Bills' approach to cap management is like Belichick's approach:  except for QB (and maybe MLB), they don't think it's worth it to pay the top of the pay scale to any player.  I think you see it in all the re-signings the Bills do, most particularly and most recently Dawkins.  What did so many posters here say about it?  A "team friendly" deal.  Of course, we haven't seen the big-ticket guys come up yet - Tre, Josh and Tremaine, but over and over what we've seen is "team friendly" deals.  

 

I think the Bills are saying this to their players: "You know how we work and how we are building.  We are all about team, and no player is bigger than the team.  We are willing to pay you very well, but we are not willing to pay you so much that it affects our ability to make the team as good as it possibly can be.  That means that we will not pay you as much as you probably can get someplace else.  (In the case of Tre, than he certainly can get someplace else.)  We hope you will accept less than you can get someplace else because what you want more than anything else is to be part of a top-notch winning organization, and part of being part of a winning organization is sharing the money with the team."   

 

I'm quite confident that's what the Bills are saying and will be saying to players.   I think that's what the Pats said to Brady all those years that he took less than he could get in the open market.  It started way back, with Lawyer Milloy, and it was obvious when they let Vinatieri go - they had a price they were willing to pay and would not move off it, even though everyone knew he was the best kicker in the game.  Shut-down corner is the only position they seem to make an exception for, and I'm sure there were years they would have made the exception for Brady if he had demanded it. 

 

For Beane and McDermott, if I had to guess, I'd say that QB and MLB are the only positions where they will be willing to pay top dollar to keep someone.  I have been prepared for a year or more to lose White unless he's willing to give the Bills a discount.  As painful as it would be to see him go, McBeane view it differently.  Their view is that White's replacement, although clearly not as good as White, will be offset by the better talent the Bills will have at other positions by virtue of having the cap room to sign that talent.   Plus, their view is that all the players have to see that part of what is expected from them is that the best players share the money with everyone else.   All the players have to see that no player is more important than the team.  By consistently sending that message to the players, and by making that message clear around the league, increasingly the Bills will be able to sign guys who are completely dedicated to the team concept that McDermott is selling.  Guys will know that McBeane are so committed to the whole team that they're willing to let a guy as talented as White (and Gilmore before him) walk.  

 

And you know what?  I think we're going to see both Allen and Edmunds give the discount.  I think one of the primary reasons McBeane wanted both those guys because of their commitment to winning as a team, because their ultimate objective wasn't to be the best individually or the highest paid, but to win.  I wouldn't be surprised if Allen and Edmunds haven't talked about it already - they may already have committed to each other that they will take team friendly deals so that they can be part of what's happening in Buffalo.   I think when McBeane took those two guys they had a high level of confidence that they would have the right answer to the ultimate question: "Where would you rather be than right here, right now?"  

 

I have no idea whether White will stay or go, but if he stays, I think he will have decided to leave money on the table. 

[Don Otreply]

Shaw66, I do hope you are correct, there is good sense in what you said. Fingers crossed that overt greed is kept in check for the overall common good. 
 

Go Bills!!!

[machine gun kelly]

Shaw, well written and excellent points.  If the teams wants it, they can extend all of these guys especially if we go deep this year.  They will give a little to get the right guaranteed $.

[Shaw66]

33 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

Shaw66, I do hope you are correct, there is good sense in what you said. Fingers crossed that overt greed is kept in check for the overall common good. 
 

Go Bills!!!

I've been up front about it for more than a year:  I think we are watching the construction of the next great team in NFL history, the team to beat for ten years or more.  

 

I think that's what we're seeing for one primary reason:  McDermott is selling something that works to build teams, and he's good at getting players to buy it.  

 

There are, in my opinion, three important contracts to get done:  Allen, Edmunds, and Beane.  Lock in those three, and big things are coming.  

 

Edit:  And as an aside, I live in Connecticut and have been a long-time UConn basketball fan.  Dan Hurley seems like he studied at the same leadership school with McDermott.   His message is the same, guys are buying it the same.  In the past two weeks he signed two big-time recruits for 2021, high school kids who talked about work ethic, about team, and about winning together.  It's nice to have coaches of my two teams succeeding like that. 

Edited August 16, 2020 by Shaw66

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

There are, in my opinion, three important contracts to get done:  Allen, Edmunds, and Beane.  Lock in those three, and big things are coming.  

 

There are 4 important contracts and White is the 4th one. He is just as important as Edmunds in McDermott's scheme. You could argue White was the most important player on the field for our wins against Miami at home and Pittsburgh last year. If we won in Cleveland his coverage of Beckham would have been the main reason. I have no doubt Beane will make him the highest paid CB in history.

[Shaw66]

25 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

There are 4 important contracts and White is the 4th one. He is just as important as Edmunds in McDermott's scheme. You could argue White was the most important player on the field for our wins against Miami at home and Pittsburgh last year. If we won in Cleveland his coverage of Beckham would have been the main reason. I have no doubt Beane will make him the highest paid CB in history.

You may be right.  

 

My opinion is that if you asked McBeane, they would not agree with you, because Beane's cap management strategy can't afford three max contracts at what are three of the four highest paid positions (edge being the fourth).   I think Beane has to stretch his system too much to write three of those contracts.  

 

I suspect that if you could have a completely frank conversation with Belichick and Brady, they would tell you that they talked about the fact that Revis got a max contract and Brady didn't.  I believe Brady accepted that fact because he knew he was going to get very good money for a very long time, and it was worth it to him to let Revis get great money for a short time in order to have the defense that would help Brady win.  

 

Beane doesn't have that luxury with White, because Beane doesn't know yet whether Josh is the guy he needs for the long-term, and he doesn't know if Josh will give the Bills the kind of discount that will allow Beane the luxury of spending big on a corner.  If I'm right about a lot of things, in a few years Josh will be a star and he will work for millions less than he could get in the open market.  That's when Beane will be able to afford to pay top dollar for the best corner back.  

 

As I said before, I think if White insists on the best money, Beane will let him walk just like McDermott let Gilmore work.  When the future is set, when the right QB and the right MLB are in place with their contracts, that's when Beane will know if he can write really big checks for another position.  I expect Beane will have the discipline to insist on a team-friendly deal with White.